• Utah adopts official state firearm
    104 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TheHydra;28704962]am I the only one who gets weirded out by the whole "gun culture"?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=thisispain;28683073]so where do you usually ejaculate? in the ejection port or the barrel?[/QUOTE]
Regular COLT 1911 no modifications are around 700-900 right now in my local city.
now all we have to do is get rid of the 9mm round being the standard for our armed forces sidearm and replace it with the 10mm round that way you don't have to shoot a guy 3-4 times before he's dead
[QUOTE=TheHydra;28704962]am I the only one who gets weirded out by the whole "gun culture"?[/QUOTE] I don't see what's weird, there are tons of people out there obsessed with cars and nobody seems to care, both guns and cars are just mechanical objects
[QUOTE=thisispain;28679358]that's just stupid. a firearm is a deadly weapon, not a symbol for freedom. humanizing a gun is a bit of a strange concept. if you rate me dumb i will shoot you![/QUOTE] Exactly. You will, not the gun.
[QUOTE=Del91;28724988]Exactly. You will, not the gun.[/QUOTE] yeah but what ultimately kills you, the act of me shooting you or the small projectile going the speed of sound entering your body pretty sure the firearm is the deadly weapon and not my horrible marksmanship
[QUOTE=thisispain;28725302]yeah but what ultimately kills you, the act of me shooting you or the small projectile going the speed of sound entering your body pretty sure the firearm is the deadly weapon and not my horrible marksmanship[/QUOTE] That projectile isn't going to go anywhere unless someone is holding the gun though Or unless you throw it into a campfire
[QUOTE=thisispain;28725302]yeah but what ultimately kills you, the act of me shooting you or the small projectile going the speed of sound entering your body pretty sure the firearm is the deadly weapon and not my horrible marksmanship[/QUOTE] guns mean freedom in any modern society, because they defend that freedom, whether you like it or not people will always kill people and you are naive to think that people won't develop new ways to kill each other
[QUOTE=Moose;28725352]guns mean freedom in any modern society, because they defend that freedom, whether you like it or not people will always kill people and you are naive to think that people won't develop new ways to kill each other[/QUOTE] when did i even say i didn't like it or not anything of that if you're trying to argue against my points, make sure they are actually my points and not someone else's [editline]21st March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;28725323]That projectile isn't going to go anywhere unless someone is holding the gun though Or unless you throw it into a campfire[/QUOTE] yeah but the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" sounds like mass-oversimplification as an argument which doesn't make any sense because it lacks such utter context or even reasoning you can attach it to anything you want and the saying falls apart
[QUOTE=TheHydra;28704962]am I the only one who gets weirded out by the whole "gun culture"?[/QUOTE] So what part weirds you out?
I like how everyone creams their pants over the M1911 but the truth is it's an old and outdated design. With it's relatively low capacity and absurdly high powered round it's not much good in modern combat. Of course, that's not to say it doesn't have it's place. I would love to own a genuine M1911 from back in the day but most modern handguns easily outclass it.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28725951]So what part weirds you out?[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yryV-5TfwvE[/media]
[QUOTE=thisispain;28725359]when did i even say i didn't like it or not anything of that if you're trying to argue against my points, make sure they are actually my points and not someone else's [editline]21st March 2011[/editline] yeah but the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" sounds like mass-oversimplification as an argument which doesn't make any sense because it lacks such utter context or even reasoning you can attach it to anything you want and the saying falls apart[/QUOTE] the gun is the tool. like anything, you can do good with it or you can do bad with it, and again like anything, the media doesn't report on the good. Especially liberal media. the idiots here at facepunch complain when any conservative news source shows any hint of bias but praise any liberal media outlet that does the same
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;28725977]the gun is the tool. like anything, you can do good with it or you can do bad with it, and again like anything, the media doesn't report on the good. Especially liberal media. the idiots here at facepunch complain when any conservative news source shows any hint of bias but praise any liberal media outlet that does the same[/QUOTE] which has fuck all to do with anything
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;28725977]the gun is the tool. like anything, you can do good with it or you can do bad with it, and again like anything, the media doesn't report on the good. Especially liberal media. the idiots here at facepunch complain when any conservative news source shows any hint of bias but praise any liberal media outlet that does the same[/QUOTE] "Man uses gun to save orphan from burning building"
awesome.
Official firearm of California. [img]http://www.sksparts.com/TEC9.jpg[/img]
Firearm and California in the same sentence lol
[QUOTE=TheHydra;28704962]am I the only one who gets weirded out by the whole "gun culture"?[/QUOTE] Behold the dark magic of alchemy and the lowly peasant with his demonic weapon of evil killing the noble upper classes from a distance. We must ensure that this evil does not spread for it shall be the end of our way of life. Oh wait, it's not the 1400s anymore is it? Rate me late.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;28725959]I like how everyone creams their pants over the M1911 but the truth is it's an old and outdated design. With it's relatively low capacity and absurdly high powered round it's not much good in modern combat. Of course, that's not to say it doesn't have it's place. I would love to own a genuine M1911 from back in the day but most modern handguns easily outclass it.[/QUOTE] Surprisingly, this isn't the case. The 9 round capacity is low, but that means the gun is lighter, and the profile is slimmer. Two things that matter a great deal for a panic weapon. When people panic with a pistol, they frequently fire one handed, which for modern pistols is a problem because they were designed to be fired with two hands. The 1911 was designed to be fired one handed, so if you are stuck shooting with one hand, you aren't nearly as inaccurate as you might otherwise be. The .45 cartridge isn't high powered. It is a very slow round with a remarkably gentle recoil. If you aren't wearing body armor or behind cover, it will fuck you up like nobody's business, but the round is terrible at penetrating cover or armor due to that low muzzle velocity and large size. That outdated design you are so quick to dismiss is durable as fuck too. 1911's will give revolvers a run for their money. Basically you are full of shit. The 1911 is freely chosen by some of the most elite fighting forces in the United States, all the way from SWAT teams, to the marine expeditionary units, to virtually every special forces team we employ.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28725323]That projectile isn't going to go anywhere unless someone is holding the gun though Or unless you throw it into a campfire[/QUOTE] Or it's very poorly made and you drop it.
1911s are cool looking That is all I can contribute here
Oh cool, the silverballer!
gentle recoil is an understatement for a .45 handgun
[QUOTE=GunFox;28727660]Surprisingly, this isn't the case. The 9 round capacity is low, but that means the gun is lighter, and the profile is slimmer. Two things that matter a great deal for a panic weapon. When people panic with a pistol, they frequently fire one handed, which for modern pistols is a problem because they were designed to be fired with two hands. The 1911 was designed to be fired one handed, so if you are stuck shooting with one hand, you aren't nearly as inaccurate as you might otherwise be. The .45 cartridge isn't high powered. It is a very slow round with a remarkably gentle recoil. If you aren't wearing body armor or behind cover, it will fuck you up like nobody's business, but the round is terrible at penetrating cover or armor due to that low muzzle velocity and large size. That outdated design you are so quick to dismiss is durable as fuck too. 1911's will give revolvers a run for their money. Basically you are full of shit. The 1911 is freely chosen by some of the most elite fighting forces in the United States, all the way from SWAT teams, to the marine expeditionary units, to virtually every special forces team we employ.[/QUOTE] So if it sucks against body armor, wouldn't that mean that it's a good self defense weapon but a bad military sidearm? Which would mean it'd still have its place in law enforcement and civilian use.
[QUOTE=wewt!;28729486]So if it sucks against body armor, wouldn't that mean that it's a good self defense weapon but a bad military sidearm? Which would mean it'd still have its place in law enforcement and civilian use.[/QUOTE] Generally speaking, any military situation commonly encountered where you would be coming up against combatants with body armor, they would have armor capable of stopping every kind of conventional pistol round you can think of, so the point of the relatively low penetration ability of the .45 is moot. [editline]21st March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Moose;28729366]gentle recoil is an understatement for a .45 handgun[/QUOTE] I'd say "gentle" is a good word to describe it. Compared to some higher velocity cartridges, it's a relatively smooth recoil.
Ohio should have the Chauchat as their state firearm
[QUOTE=wewt!;28729486]So if it sucks against body armor, wouldn't that mean that it's a good self defense weapon but a bad military sidearm? Which would mean it'd still have its place in law enforcement and civilian use.[/QUOTE] There's plenty of fleshy bits on the body that aren't going to be covered by typical armor - I'd imagine the torso is the main thing that's going to be covered. Besides, according to Wikipedia, it has a muzzle velocity of 835 f/s. It might not penetrate the armor, but you still have the kinetic energy to deal with when it impacts with your torso - I've saw it described as "being hit in the chest with a baseball bat". So you'd be looking at bruising, possible broken bones as well. Also according to Wikipedia, US-NIJ allows for up to 44mm of penetration ( ~2 inches ) while Europe/Germany allow 20-25mm. This means that a ballistic vest that "stopped" a bullet could still result in potential organ damage or bleeding. Just because it is ineffective against armor doesn't mean it is useless against people wearing armor.
[QUOTE=wewt!;28729486]So if it sucks against body armor, wouldn't that mean that it's a good self defense weapon but a bad military sidearm? Which would mean it'd still have its place in law enforcement and civilian use.[/QUOTE] Generally in a military situation you are going to be facing two types of opponent: Unarmored, and heavily armored. Unarmored makes up the vast majority of the people we encounter today. Insurgents, terrorists, etc. They are unlikely to be wearing any form of armor. Heavily armored folks make up the majority of modern military forces. They are going to have some form of ballistic plate in their vest designed to stop rifle rounds. So even with special purpose cartridges (5.7mm or 4.6mm) you are still going to have virtually zero chance of penetrating that plate + vest. Yes, some handgun calibers could theoretically still go through that, but the recoil and weight of the firearm + cartridges would completely ruin the entire point of a sidearm. A good military sidearm doesn't need good penetration. It needs fast presentation, good accuracy, good reliability, high stopping power, and a recoil that is manageable enough to put multiple rounds into the same few inches of space in a short period of time. The 1911 has all of these things.
[QUOTE=yuki;28679233]An M1911? Classy. The Thompson M1A1, the M1 Garand, the M1918 BAR, the [B]M16A1[/B] (or the AR-15 platform)?[/QUOTE] Oh god no... M16A4, a nicer more sturdy rifle.
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