US Schools try to pull out of science slump - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;36728339]My Bio teacher said she didn't believe in macroevoltion but did believe in micro. Fuckimg stupid bullshit[/QUOTE] I had a bio teacher who didn't believe in evolution. To his credit, he taught us it and didn't mention creationism at all, though this being the UK, I think he knew he'd get his ass beaten to hell. He once gave us a test with the answers on the back of the paper. I blatantly cheated; and much to my surprise no one else in the room had the spine to admit that: A) They'd also done it and B) The knob was only doing it so he wouldn't have to mark it himself. Still, as I was the only one to stand up to him, I was considered a bit of a hero for a fortnight or so.

Its not just culture and religion, its also budgeting and apathy of others which put schools into an educational slump. Along with other variables, these issues collectively bring the educational system to its current level.

[QUOTE=OvB;36727725]I'm by no means a math genius. Hell, I've taken high school algebra twice, and college algebra three times because I failed to pass the classes. But it's still a wonderful thing to know and everyone should strive to be mathematically and scientifically literate. It doesn't mean they have to be human calculators.[/QUOTE] I am so glad to hear that from another person. I may not be very good at math, but I'm going to try my fucking hardest to learn it because it's [b]NECESSARY[/b]

It's a lost cause. The South is kicking science out of school and replacing it with bible study and the North is firing entire school districts and turning kids over to corporations.

[QUOTE=OvB;36728462]That's always bugged me. How could you "believe" in microevolution but not macroevolution. Oh, so all whales have hip bones uselessly suspended in their bodies for no fucking reason then, eh?[/QUOTE] 'God moves in mysterious ways.' The get out of jail free card.

[QUOTE=OvB;36727493]-words- [url]http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=math[/url][/QUOTE] hurrrr if you don't like math you're DUMB

[QUOTE=Mon;36729796]hurrrr if you don't like math you're DUMB[/QUOTE]Went right over your head, didn't it?

[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;36729826]Went right over your head, didn't it?[/QUOTE] then explain it, because that's really all i can get out of that

[QUOTE=Mon;36729844]then explain it, because that's really all i can get out of that[/QUOTE]it's saying, like cooking, it's nothing more than following instructions you [should have] learned earlier in the unit. And saying "oh, I'm never going to use this" is the stupidest thing possible, how do you know you're never going to use basic math skills in the future? Because it's a damn guarantee that you will.

[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;36729942]it's saying, like cooking, it's nothing more than following instructions you [should have] learned earlier in the unit. And saying "oh, I'm never going to use this" is the stupidest thing possible, how do you know you're never going to use basic math skills in the future? Because it's a damn guarantee that you will.[/QUOTE] yeah, basic math skills are definitely useful, but seriously - you can't expect people to care about anything that isn't applied. yeah, theoretical math MIGHT be cool to some people, but not everyone is going to care that much about it. really, you're either super-enthusiastic about that kind of thing, or you're aggressively apathetic. fibonacci's sequence? yeah, it might be interesting, but why would you need to know about that? how is that useful at all? i think it's safe to say that the hardest kind of math most people will need to know will be in their tax returns.

[QUOTE=Mon;36730159]yeah, basic math skills are definitely useful, but seriously - you can't expect people to care about anything that isn't applied. yeah, theoretical physics MIGHT be cool to some people, but not everyone is going to care that much about it. really, you're either super-enthusiastic about that kind of thing, or you're aggressively apathetic. fibonacci's sequence? yeah, it might be interesting, but why would you need to know about that? how is that useful at all? i think it's safe to say that the hardest kind of math most people will need to know will be in their tax returns.[/QUOTE] On a more abstract level, learning a higher degree of mathematics helps with problem solving, which people seem to completely lack nowadays. [QUOTE=RainbowStalin;36729732]'God moves in mysterious ways.' The get out of jail free card.[/QUOTE] I remember Ricky Gervais saying that the "God moves in mysterious ways" comment is the theological equivalent of saying "Look at what's over there!" then running the other direction.

[QUOTE=OvB;36725445]We need something to make science "cool" again. There's nothing going on to motivate the children to become scientists. All we have on TV these days is bullshit political opinion news, fake reality TV show's and whatever the fuck the Kardashians are doing. We need another moon landing, something that sparks children's interest. The Sports culture in US schools is what it is because you see it every day. There's multiple channels dedicated to sports news. Kid's dwell on that sort of thing. Obligatory: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIZU8cQWXc[/media] We, simply put, are a culture where being popular is cool and being a nerd is seen as a negative thing.[/QUOTE] Just a quick thing: I actually wanted to become a NASA scientist/astronaut. However when I heard that they are stopping their missions... I changed. Completely. I still have interest in science and how things work but I now have need to dream big, or pursue that career. So I changed my ideals, my thoughts, and my future in a matter of weeks. Instead of being one of the few that get to experience what its like to be in the shuttle.. in space.. and to be apart of something that the entire nation will watch, I now dream of being a police officer. America, like the video says, has stopped enabling the next generation to dream of tomorrow.

[QUOTE=areolop;36730653]Just a quick thing: I actually wanted to become a NASA scientist/astronaut. However when I heard that they are stopping their missions... I changed. Completely. I still have interest in science and how things work but I now have need to dream big, or pursue that career. So I changed my ideals, my thoughts, and my future in a matter of weeks. Instead of being one of the few that get to experience what its like to be in the shuttle.. in space.. and to be apart of something that the entire nation will watch, I now dream of being a police officer. America, like the video says, has stopped enabling the next generation to dream of tomorrow.[/QUOTE] Just because the Shuttle is done doesn't mean NASA is done. They got the SLS coming up, and future missions to the moon, mars, and asteroids. Given the right funding, the next 10-30 years could be a very exciting time for NASA. [img]http://i.imgur.com/P66bu.jpg[/img] Not to mention the increase in private involvement with companies like SpaceX. Your dream is still very much achievable.

The science class in the school I went to, got interrupted for 3 weeks or so, and by the end of the year somebody said that "the planets are just close stars". Maybe if America really cared about science they would stop interrupting classes for some shitty dare program.

Give it another month or so and they'll probably start teaching people that the sun orbits the earth and if you sail too far west you get eaten by dragons.

[QUOTE=OvB;36728373]Wow that's shitty. Even here in Texas I've never had a science teacher claim evolution was false.[/QUOTE] I had a professor that was talking about evolution and was like "People think that Evolution is a disputed topic, but 99% of the science community believes in Evoultion. The other 1% I wouldn't include in the science community." Said the same thing about global climate change. He was a really awesome guy. He is one of the national leaders on amphibians, and so he was one of the first to publish a paper on how global climate change has an impact life. He was telling us how because of this, Fred Singer ranked him the 2nd worst important scientist in the world, behind some crazy japanese dude. He wrote the guy and was like, "That's kinda funny coming from somebody who hasn't had a paper published in 9 years". He also was attacked by Rush Limbaugh.

[QUOTE=OvB;36725445]We, simply put, are a culture where being popular is cool and being a nerd is seen as a negative thing.[/QUOTE] And the funny thing is, the stereotype of scientists (or science-types) is COMPLETELY wrong. Granted, I've only been at uni for a year and a half now, but I'm gonna hazard a guess and say 90% of the people I've bumped into at uni in a course similar to, or the same as mine (friends, classmates AND lecturers themselves) have been... well, totally normal individuals. Not weird, anti-social nerdy types. Average guys and girls who simply find the stuff they're learning interesting, who will go to the pub for a few hours after class if the day permits it, have some drinks, have dinner, have a laugh, etc. My Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics lecturer from first year, and my soon to be Astronomy and Cosmology lecturer is a black belt in Karate! It's the stereotype of science and scientists that is hugely hurting science. If people actually spent a few days at a university talking and listening to people they'd probably see it all in a different light.

[QUOTE=monkey11;36730919]I had a professor that was talking about evolution and was like "People think that Evolution is a disputed topic, but 99% of the science community believes in Evoultion. The other 1% I wouldn't include in the science community." Said the same thing about global climate change. He was a really awesome guy. He is one of the national leaders on amphibians, and so he was one of the first to publish a paper on how global climate change has an impact life. He was telling us how because of this, Fred Singer ranked him the 2nd worst important scientist in the world, behind some crazy japanese dude. He wrote the guy and was like, "That's kinda funny coming from somebody who hasn't had a paper published in 9 years". [B]He also was attacked by Rush Limbaugh.[/B][/QUOTE] Get this man a medal.

[QUOTE=areolop;36731907]Get this man a medal.[/QUOTE] Well as in had his works attacked by Rush Limbaugh, but it was still really awesome. The guy was also hilarious.

[QUOTE=OvB;36727493][url]http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=math[/url][/QUOTE] I hate that if I ask my teachers why I have to do X to get Y they just say "thats the way it is"

I don't understand. I go to a Roman Catholic private high school, where there are Jews, Atheists, Baptists, and Agnostics, yet they teach just about everything relating to science that a normal high school should teach. Evolution, dinosaurs, the fact that the earth is more than a couple thousand years old. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Religon is a seperate class here. Seems to me seperating Religon and Science but not removing Religon pleases everyone. Then again, the Religon teacher believes that gays are not horrible, devil-worshipping people, earth is extremely old, and most of the bible is spirtually meant instead of literally, so maybe it has to do with the adminstration of the school. Oh, and by the way, this in the South. Louisiana, to be exact.

[QUOTE=OvB;36725445]We need something to make science "cool" again. There's nothing going on to motivate the children to become scientists. All we have on TV these days is bullshit political opinion news, fake reality TV show's and whatever the fuck the Kardashians are doing. We need another moon landing, something that sparks children's interest. The Sports culture in US schools is what it is because you see it every day. There's multiple channels dedicated to sports news. Kid's dwell on that sort of thing. We, simply put, are a culture where being popular is cool and being a nerd is seen as a negative thing.[/QUOTE] Didn't quite alot of American children have NASA lunchboxes during the space race? [editline]12th July 2012[/editline] Never once have I been confronted by religion this much, the church barely has any power left here in the Netherlands. I hate to bring nationalism in this, but is America [I]really[/I] this conservative? The only political party here that is about as conservative as (so it seems) 50% of the American population only has votes from 10% or so of the Dutch population :v:.

I actually quite like math, so long as I get it. Soon enough I realized the only reason I was struggling with it was because I didn't care, it was just another paper to fill in answers on. Once I started to actually try to understand what I was doing and learn, I suddenly got a hell of a lot better at it The theories of science and the way our universe works is so cool to me. I have absolutely no interest on studying it past core classes or pursuing a career in sciences, but I appreciate the stuff that I am required to learn, and kind of wish I had time in high school to learn more, so I do think schools should be more willing in pushing it. Who knows, maybe I'll go and try to study some stuff on my own some time

Learning is hard work, Ignorance is bliss. It's easy to see why a person chooses the latter. ===================== The lack of understanding of the applications of science is also a sad trend in today's society. It's very short sighted to say "How can that research be of practical use?" -- when it may take 50years to see any practical benefit -- One particular discovery may never yeild results but it may be the shoulders to stand on for another set of research to do something completely unseen originally. The MRI scanner used in hospitals around the world is based on technology that was developed by astrophysicists to study stars. It just took a a bio-medical engineer to say "Hey, lets use that on people." [video=youtube;lmTmGLzPVyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmTmGLzPVyM[/video] We are too short sighted and scientifically illiterate. That's the problem.

[QUOTE=Mon;36730159]yeah, basic math skills are definitely useful, but seriously - you can't expect people to care about anything that isn't applied. yeah, theoretical math MIGHT be cool to some people, but not everyone is going to care that much about it. really, you're either super-enthusiastic about that kind of thing, or you're aggressively apathetic. fibonacci's sequence? yeah, it might be interesting, but why would you need to know about that? how is that useful at all? i think it's safe to say that the hardest kind of math most people will need to know will be in their tax returns.[/QUOTE] Use the Fibonacci sequence to derive phi. Use phi to make things using the golden ratio, like this: [IMG]http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMT668/EMAT6680.2000/Obara/Emat6690/Golden%20Ratio/image49.gif[/IMG] or this: [IMG]http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/01274/lastsupper.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.goldennumber.net/wp-content/uploads/last-supper-phi-golden-ratio.gif[/IMG] or this: [IMG]http://bondi-golden-ratio-project.wikispaces.com/file/view/Tajmahal.png/219337488/433x396/Tajmahal.png[/IMG] or this: [IMG]http://www.goldennumber.net/wp-content/uploads/seurat.jpg[/IMG] or this: [IMG]http://www.teacherlink.org/content/math/activities/skp-goldenrec/images/monet.jpg[/IMG] But hey, it's fine if art or design isn't important to you. You'll be encountering this shit everywhere. I mean, look at fucking twitter a couple of years ago: [IMG]http://numbdrum.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/twitter-golden-ratio-585x369.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Matrix374;36733699]I hate that if I ask my teachers why I have to do X to get Y they just say "thats the way it is"[/QUOTE] It is frustrating to not get a definite answer from someone, but oftentimes teachers do this to prevent a lengthy digression to a topic students might not understand. If you are actually interested in what is happening, talk to the teacher after school hours when he/she is not worried about simply getting through the material.

[QUOTE=Mon;36730159]yeah, basic math skills are definitely useful, but seriously - you can't expect people to care about anything that isn't applied. yeah, theoretical math MIGHT be cool to some people, but not everyone is going to care that much about it. really, you're either super-enthusiastic about that kind of thing, or you're aggressively apathetic. fibonacci's sequence? yeah, it might be interesting, but why would you need to know about that? how is that useful at all? i think it's safe to say that the hardest kind of math most people will need to know will be in their tax returns.[/QUOTE] The thing about theoretical math is that it's been studied and built upon for over two thousand years. Math is such a broad topic, there's bound to be something anyone will find neat, at least. A cool thing I've found is how some things can be, extended and abstracted and produce meaningful results which stretch intuition. Extra dimensions, for example, are pretty cool because a torus can be parametrized in a simpler fashion, a simplex can be easily constructed by taking a point and moving it in the extra dimension, and statements can be made about things in greater than 42 dimensions but not 5. Then there's the complex numbers, who can make a continuous transition from positive to negative without ever crossing zero, have relations which yield several values yet remain functions, can express exponential functions in terms of sinusoidals and vice versa, ensure polynomials have a number of roots equal to their degree, and furthermore they can be raised to complex powers. A point at infinity can be placed on a sphere and create a system in which division by zero is defined and legal. Almost all operations, furthermore, can be defined for a set of 0 or 1 elements, giving 0! a value of 1. Many polygons cannot be constructed with a perfect ruler and compass. Tetration has been somehow defined for all real numbers. Math is full of stuff like this, and I myself have heard of a small, small part of it. No, it's not necessarily a reason for everyone to care about math, but many should know that the whole reason it is taught is not so they can use it later in life, but because it is a foundation upon which they may learn more.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;36728610]I am so glad to hear that from another person. I may not be very good at math, but I'm going to try my fucking hardest to learn it because it's [b]NECESSARY[/b][/QUOTE] I wouldn't go on to say that something like advanced multivariable calculus can be used in most people's everyday lives or something, but at least basic math and science should be stressed. I'm an arts major who's been working on pre-med pre-reqs, and I've found that you can actually draw on that knowledge and the style of thinking needed in them when doing work in non-science related classes, which has been helpful. Note: I'm pretty bad at science as well. I've got to retake Organic Chemistry cause I ended up with a C+. I feel another major problem is that we need better math and science teachers. No, I don't mean ones who have more degrees or are more important in the scientific community, but ones who can actually teach. I've had teachers who are clearly brilliant in their fields, but they don't know how to explain topics to or interact well with students. I've also had teachers who just assume we know topics. They justify it by saying that they don't have time to explain how things work, which is a bunch of crap. I've had a calc teacher who went and explained everything we did and how we did it in a logical order, as well as answered all the questions people asked in class, and we actually ended up completing the semester's topics early. Note: some of these experience are also from Canada, so its not just the US that needs to work on this.

[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;36725198]It has a lot to do with the whole Evolution vs. Creationism debate as well. Not sure how many people from across the pond are aware, but The Christian Far Right want's to get Science out of Science Class and put A Literalistic interpretation of the Book of Genesis in its place. Rather scary, to be honest.[/QUOTE] People who call for that shit in the UK are derided and destroyed until they slink away with the knuckle dragging opinions. I don't care about religion but when you try and state that Creationism and the bible are true and belong in the science class here you are literally shat all over.

[QUOTE=markfu;36752006]I wouldn't go on to say that something like advanced multivariable calculus can be used in most people's everyday lives or something, but at least basic math and science should be stressed.[/QUOTE] Here's the problem, though - if you're never willing to go through all of the theoretical examples in order to get a firm grasp of an area of mathematics (or science), of course you're never going to get to the fucking point where you learn what it's practical applications are. Basically all of the shit you think DOESN'T have practical applications does, it's just you've got to dig a little deeper to get to it. All of the theoretical questions and scenarios are there as buffer material so you're not doing obscenely difficult calculations from the get go with dozens of variables.