Rachel Dolezal, "Trans-Black" who was former NAACP leader, now jobless, may soon be homeless - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Tudd;51883734]I mean that is a really nice idea, but there are differences between races that are undeniably not part of the idea it is only a "social construct". [url]http://www.livescience.com/10716-scientists-theorize-black-athletes-run-fastest.html[/url] [url]http://time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/[/url] Again nice idea, but you would be as delusional as the same people to think there are no differences between males and females. At the same time you should realize that the egalitarian approach to humanity, while understanding some key differences, is what science strives for here. What this lady is doing is straight up some sort of racial dysphoria and needs counseling.[/QUOTE] I'm not being for or against it. The point I was trying to make was that there's no sense in someone being able to pick a race that is not the one they were born with. It's something that abolishes the very concept of race. Is that a good thing? I don't know. But the idea of someone being able to be "transrace" sounds pretty stupid to me.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51883837]I'm not being for or against it. The point I was trying to make was that there's no sense in someone being able to pick a race that is not the one they were born with. It's something that abolishes the very concept of race. Is that a good thing? I don't know. But the idea of someone being able to be "transrace" sounds pretty stupid to me.[/QUOTE] I agree with you pretty much and figure you meant that. I just saw some earlier posts that were abit idiotic on it before and thought this would cover those. I mean really, you have to think the societal pressures/mental issues she has had to have desire to be of a different race. This is undoubtedly something that warrants counseling.

What's with all the identity politics threads lately, Tudd? The best way to make such stupidity go away is to ignore it, not give it attention.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51883837]I'm not being for or against it. The point I was trying to make was that there's no sense in someone being able to pick a race that is not the one they were born with. It's something that abolishes the very concept of race. Is that a good thing? I don't know. But the idea of someone being able to be "transrace" sounds pretty stupid to me.[/QUOTE] So where do you draw the line on that? After all, it was only recently that a majority of people were saying there's no sense in someone being able to pick a sex that is not the one they were born with I mean when it comes to sex, there's your sex, which is biological, and there's your gender, which is a social construct. So who's to say its not the same for race? I mean I'm not saying I believe it myself, but I think what happened with her is really interesting because really, there isn't much of a sound argument to argue why she isn't allowed to do this while still justifying transgenderism [editline]28th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tudd;51883888]I agree with you pretty much and figure you meant that. I just saw some earlier posts that were abit idiotic on it before and thought this would cover those. I mean really, you have to think the societal pressures/mental issues she has had to have desire to be of a different race. This is undoubtedly something that warrants counseling.[/QUOTE] You called it racial dysphoria before - would you advocate counselling to cure gender dysphoria as well?

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51883923]So where do you draw the line on that? After all, it was only recently that a majority of people were saying there's no sense in someone being able to pick a sex that is not the one they were born with I mean when it comes to sex, there's your sex, which is biological, and there's your gender, which is a social construct. So who's to say its not the same for race? I mean I'm not saying I believe it myself, but I think what happened with her is really interesting because really, there isn't much of a sound argument to argue why she isn't allowed to do this while still justifying transgenderism [editline]28th February 2017[/editline] You called it racial dysphoria before - would you advocate counselling to cure gender dysphoria as well?[/QUOTE] Very simple. Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. There is ethnicity, which refers to culture, and people are free to be whatever ethnicity they want, if the value one culture more than another. People who make shit like 'racial dysphoria' up, or identify as a specific 'race', are more a part of the problem than any solution. They probably need help and counseling of some sort. Maybe they're mentally ill. Or maybe they just want attention. Maybe the two aren't mutually exclusive. Either way, they're only exacerbating societal divides, not healing them. Gender dysphoria is considered a maladaptive disorder, no? In other words, it is also a mental illness. And it's maladaptive because it tends to cause a great deal of suffering to the sufferer. It's not as simple as deciding to transition, even if you're in a supportive environment and have that option. The best treatment for gender dysphoria is to allow the person to make the transition to whatever sex they're most comfortable in, to allow them to live with less stress. There's no 'cure'.

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51883923]So where do you draw the line on that? After all, it was only recently that a majority of people were saying there's no sense in someone being able to pick a sex that is not the one they were born with I mean when it comes to sex, there's your sex, which is biological, and there's your gender, which is a social construct. So who's to say its not the same for race? I mean I'm not saying I believe it myself, but I think what happened with her is really interesting because really, there isn't much of a sound argument to argue why she isn't allowed to do this while still justifying transgenderism[/QUOTE] For me personally I understand the distinction of Gender/Sex and their implications on science vs social contstruct. Hence why I believe individuals with Gender Dysphoria should seek counseling also, but society should be able to recognize their expression and react to it in a appropriate way if the dysphoria is genuine and try to include them into society as much as possible with common sense. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=killerteacup;51883923] You called it racial dysphoria before - would you advocate counselling to cure gender dysphoria as well?[/QUOTE] I do and have in the past, but I don't suggest it to "cure" the dysphoria, but for the person to understand themselves and to help curb the high suicide rates that are common amongst this demographic. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;51883942]Very simple. Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. [/quote] Just curious about your response to the studies I posted earlier.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51883942]Very simple. Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. There is ethnicity, which refers to culture, and people are free to be whatever ethnicity they want, if the value one culture more than another. People who make shit like 'racial dysphoria' up, or identify as a specific 'race', are more a part of the problem than any solution. They probably need help and counseling of some sort. Maybe they're mentally ill. Or maybe they just want attention. Maybe the two aren't mutually exclusive. Either way, they're only exacerbating societal divides, not healing them.[/QUOTE] But I don't think she was ever claiming to be a different race - but she was claiming to be a different ethnicity. After all, she was born to a white family and her interview states that she identified with being black and being a participant of african-american culture - not that she was born a different race to her parents. So really, that's no different to someone born a male who identifies as a female on the basis of gender. The argument that these people are somehow exacerbating social divides is pretty unfair in my view. Really it's the argument served to exclude these groups of people from having a say. Germaine Greer is a pretty unpopular feminist for this reason nowadays - because she thinks trans people aren't real women and have no right to contribute to feminism. So where does that leave people like Rachel Dolezal? What discourse does she have a right to contribute to if she does not identify as white on basis of ethnicity but is not allowed to identify as trans-racial if such a thing exists? She's basically a second class citizen. I'd find it hard to believe that anyone would choose to be that way as some sort of gimmick [QUOTE=Tudd;51883944]For me personally I understand the distinction of Gender/Sex and their implications on science vs social contstruct. Hence why I believe individuals with Gender Dysphoria should seek counseling also, but society should be able to recognize their expression and react to it in a appropriate way if the dysphoria is genuine and try to include them into society as much as possible with common sense. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] I do and have in the past, but I don't suggest it to "cure" the dysphoria, but for the person to understand themselves and to help curb the high suicide rates that are common amongst this demographic. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Just curious about your response to the studies I posted earlier.[/QUOTE] So you understand the distinction between Gender/Sex but you don't see a similar distinction between Race/Culture that might play a factor here? Plus I think it depends on whether you believe the high suicide rates are by nature or by nurture - it's commonly argued that high suicide rates among this demographic are as much to do with the rampant discrimination they face and lack of acceptance by family and wider society as they are to a predisposition to mental illness - and then you have to ask how mental illness occurs source to back up: [url]https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf[/url]

[QUOTE=archangel125;51883913]What's with all the identity politics threads lately, Tudd? The best way to make such stupidity go away is to ignore it, not give it attention.[/QUOTE] Identity politics will never go away honestly. It is part of the human nature to generalize and categorize complex structures into simpler terms. Besides posting this news story isn't really me advocating for more Identity Politics. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=killerteacup;51883987] So you understand the distinction between Gender/Sex but you don't see a similar distinction between Race/Culture that might play a factor here? Plus I think it depends on whether you believe the high suicide rates are by nature or by nurture - it's commonly argued that high suicide rates among this demographic are more to do with the rampant discrimination they face and lack of acceptance by family and wider society than it is due to some biological fault[/QUOTE] Actually I think I clearly demonstrate that she can feel a desire to be part of the culture if she wants to and I can understand it/not feel it needs to be "cured". I do think she needs counseling to either find out this expression is sincere or if there is another fundamental problem about herself to discover. As for the high suicide rates, I don't think it his heavily because of biological reasons, and societal pressure plays a huge role, but it does exist and counseling is a great tool for anyone to take who feel depression in any form or way.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51883944] Just curious about your response to the studies I posted earlier.[/QUOTE] indeed it is shocking that people from different continents generally have different ranges of genetic variation from each other

[QUOTE=Tudd;51883988]Identity politics will never go away honestly. It is part of the human nature to generalize and categorize complex structures into simpler terms. Besides posting this news story isn't really me advocating for more Identity Politics. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Actually I think I clearly demonstrate that she can feel a desire to be part of the culture if she wants to and I can understand it/not feel it needs to be "cured". I do think she needs counseling to either find out this expression is sincere or if there is another fundamental problem about herself to discover.[/QUOTE] just as a disclaimer, I'm trying to flesh this out, not have a go in any way but I understand my post was worded a bit wonkily Do you think her actions warrant her not being able to get a job or pay rent? IMO they don't as she was already punished by losing her current job at the NAACP

[QUOTE=Tudd;51883944] Just curious about your response to the studies I posted earlier.[/QUOTE] I think you're confusing phenotype for race. According to natural selection, genes that prove especially useful in an environment tend to have a higher chance to survive and be passed on to the next generation. Scientists are also discovering that the human body itself has dormant genes that it can 'activate' at need over generations to give them advantages in certain environments (That's a very simplified explanation, but you get the idea.) "Race" implies a divergence of species. Humans from all over the world have more genetic diversity across their own phenotype than there exists between phenotypes, therefore race does not exist and is entirely a social construct. Phenotypes are mostly superficial physical traits that developed im people over millenia because those traits were advantageous to their environments, and because those people mostly stayed put. Those who remained in Africa tend to have bodies better suited to running because they would survive largely by tracking prey across large distances - while gazelle and four-legged animals may be able to run faster than humans, no species on the planet can run as long. Therefore, good runners passed on their genes and it began to become a trait of the phenotype. Those who emigrated out of Africa tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago and moved to colder climes developed superficial physical traits that proved a boon in their new environments, such as reduced melanin levels in their skin depending on the climate of the area they lived in. Running was no longer as important to survival, particularly in tropical climes where flora and fauna were even more plentiful. That's why you don't see many people from those areas excelling on a global level in sprints or endurance running. Look at pacific islanders, for example, who aren't particularly good runners for the most part, but are incredibly good swimmers. Remember, our species has been around between two and five hundred thousand years. We only started farming and living in large social groups between ten and twenty thousand years ago, before that, we evolved as hunter-gatherers. What scientists have discovered beyond any doubt is that there are no cognitive differences across phenotypes because there has been a wide pool of genetic diversity to draw from. Cognitive differences and other such more pronounced traits only begin to emerge within very small populations of humans that have lived in isolation and have interbred for generations - aboriginal peoples in the Amazon are a good example. In other words, no such thing as race. Phenotypes exist, but confer only superficial advantages in certain physical conditions. For 'race' to exist, people would have to live separated entirely from each other for millions of years. Now that we can fly from place to place and the world is a more global community, that will never come to pass. I suspect that five to six thousand years from now everyone will be roughly the same shade of beige. Maybe if you could colonize Mars and then have no contact between Earth and Mars for like five million years, that might do it.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51883942]Very simple. Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. There is ethnicity, which refers to culture, and people are free to be whatever ethnicity they want, if the value one culture more than another. People who make shit like 'racial dysphoria' up, or identify as a specific 'race', are more a part of the problem than any solution. They probably need help and counseling of some sort. Maybe they're mentally ill. Or maybe they just want attention. Maybe the two aren't mutually exclusive. Either way, they're only exacerbating societal divides, not healing them. Gender dysphoria is considered a maladaptive disorder, no? In other words, it is also a mental illness. And it's maladaptive because it tends to cause a great deal of suffering to the sufferer. It's not as simple as deciding to transition, even if you're in a supportive environment and have that option. The best treatment for gender dysphoria is to allow the person to make the transition to whatever sex they're most comfortable in, to allow them to live with less stress. There's no 'cure'.[/QUOTE] Replace the words 'race' with 'sex' and see how it becomes very unacceptable. If transgender is okay, why isn't "transrace", it's the same kind of thing. Transgender people were also considered mentally sick, we have moved beyond that but it's still okay to call others mentally sick despite the similarities?

[QUOTE=RB33;51884072]Replace the words 'race' with 'sex' and see how it becomes very unacceptable. If transgender is okay, why isn't "transrace", it's the same kind of thing. Transgender people were also considered mentally sick, we have moved beyond that but it's still okay to call others mentally sick despite the similarities?[/QUOTE] But gender dysphoria *is* a mental illness? I wasn't aware that had ever changed. When someone believes they're not supposed to be in the body they are, they're suffering. It's a maladaptive psychological disorder, that's why we want to help trans people transition, it's the best treatment. In medical terms, 'maladaptive' means that the problem is preventing them from living happy, healthy lives and functioning normally.

[QUOTE=RB33;51884072]Replace the words 'race' with 'sex' and see how it becomes very unacceptable. If transgender is okay, why isn't "transrace", it's the same kind of thing. Transgender people were also considered mentally sick, we have moved beyond that but it's still okay to call others mentally sick despite the similarities?[/QUOTE] Evidence really. You show me people suffering "race dysphoria," depression, suicidism, etc. thereof, observed medical brain structure differences, etc.. And I'll change my tune

[QUOTE=archangel125;51884083]But gender dysphoria *is* a mental illness? I wasn't aware that had ever changed. When someone believes they're not supposed to be in the body they are, they're suffering. It's a maladaptive psychological disorder, that's why we want to help trans people transition, it's the best treatment. In medical terms, 'maladaptive' means that the problem is preventing them from living happy, healthy lives and functioning normally.[/QUOTE] But does all transgender people have gender dysphoria? If not, it would extremely unfair to call them sick. I'm no expert on this, so i don't know. But i'm certainly not going to assume that they are all sick. I would also say, that I think there's a difference between having a disorder and being mentally sick. Since some disorders are permanent and not curable.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884088]Evidence really. You show me people suffering "race dysphoria," depression, suicidism, etc. thereof, observed medical brain structure differences, etc.. And I'll change my tune[/QUOTE] So it's okay to use a lack of evidence either way as grounds to dismiss someone as an attention-seeker or narcissist? Seems like the evidence argument goes both ways. It's not really justifiable to have a tune which is 'I have no sympathy for this woman may she never find a job again and live on food stamps for the rest of her life, unless someone shows me evidence that such a dysphoria may exist, in which case I will maybe think about tolerating her right to exist' I'm aware that you have not specifically said this but considering the start of my argument was responding to people who [I]did[/I] make that assertion you can understand where I'm coming from I'm sure No studies have existed that have found racial dysphoria, true, but neither have any studies really been done to find against the idea. Rachel Dolezal is really the first person we've heard about who is an example of some form of trans-racialism. From a scientific standpoint it may have no basis in evidence, but from a sociological standpoint, it's entirely possible.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884088]Evidence really. You show me people suffering "race dysphoria," depression, suicidism, etc. thereof, observed medical brain structure differences, etc.. And I'll change my tune[/QUOTE] Do people need to have disorders for their desires to be valid?

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51884144]So it's okay to use a lack of evidence either way as grounds to dismiss someone as an attention-seeker or narcissist? Seems like the evidence argument goes both ways No studies have existed that have found racial dysphoria, true, but neither have any studies really been done to find against the idea. Rachel Dolezal is really the first person we've heard about who is an example of some form of trans-racialism. From a scientific standpoint it may have no basis in evidence, but from a sociological standpoint, it's entirely possible.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that is true that we find evidence for things when we try studying them. Although my approach isn't to then call someone a narcissist or an attention-seeker by default either, it's not like an extreme is necessary. [QUOTE=RB33;51884148]Do people need to have disorders for their desires to be valid?[/QUOTE] I'll just ask, what's valid and does that have ties to what we DO about something? Because I sure as hell don't know enough about psychology to know. There's a lot of weird examples, like the woman who was blinded by a doctor at her request.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884149]Yeah, that is true that we find evidence for things when we try studying them. Although my approach isn't to then call someone a narcissist or an attention-seeker by default either, it's not like an extreme is necessary.[/QUOTE] Sorry yeah I edited my post to clarify - I knew you had never personally said that

[QUOTE=RB33;51884137]But does all transgender people have gender dysphoria? If not, it would extremely unfair to call them sick. I'm no expert on this, so i don't know. But i'm certainly not going to assume that they are all sick. I would also say, that I think there's a difference between having a disorder and being mentally sick. Since some disorders are permanent and not curable.[/QUOTE] Let's talk strictly scientific terms here. I'm no expert either, but I did have to study this stuff in college. A mental illness or disorder is maladaptive by nature. It impairs a person's functioning and their self-image. Being transgendered, to oversimplify it, means that you're not comfortable in the body you're born with and would feel better in the body of the opposite sex. Therefore, you have a mental disorder. There are some people who can go their entire lives and it doesn't affect them all that much. There are some who are crippled by it, and need counseling and medical help, because more disorders tend to crop up alongside any that are causing serious problems - this is known as comorbidity. For example, I was prescribed Adderall because my doctor found that I probably suffer from moderately severe ADHD, with mild depression as a comorbid disorder. There's nothing wrong with having some sort of disorder - I suspect most people do even if undiagnosed, partially as a result of the stresses of postmodern society that our species never really evolved to deal with. So I don't see why it's derogatory or wrong to call a problem what it is, scientifically. The only stigma something needs to have is what people add to it.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51884177]Let's talk strictly scientific terms here. I'm no expert either, but I did have to study this stuff in college. A mental illness or disorder is maladaptive by nature. It impairs a person's functioning and their self-image. Being transgendered, to oversimplify it, means that you're not comfortable in the body you're born with and would feel better in the body of the opposite sex. Therefore, you have a mental disorder. There are some people who can go their entire lives and it doesn't affect them all that much. There are some who are crippled by it, and need counseling and medical help, because more disorders tend to crop up alongside any that are causing serious problems - this is known as comorbidity. For example, I was prescribed Adderall because my doctor found that I probably suffer from moderately severe ADHD, with mild depression as a comorbid disorder. There's nothing wrong with having some sort of disorder - I suspect most people do even if undiagnosed, partially as a result of the stresses of postmodern society that our species never really evolved to deal with. So I don't see why it's derogatory or wrong to call a problem what it is, scientifically.[/QUOTE] Are you willing to consider the sociological aspect to this debate?

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51884185]Are you willing to consider the sociological aspect to this debate?[/QUOTE] No, you have a point - identifying as another ethnicity is perfectly valid. However, I take issue with the labels used there. She is biologically caucasian, according to her, but she identifies as black. That doesn't sound like ethnicity to me. She could have said "I identify with African culture" or "I identify with Carribean culture" and nobody would have blinked. I accused her of exacerbating social divides by making the distinction along lines of phenotypes rather than culture, because phenotypes, while completely insignificant scientifically, have been used as justification for these social divides historically, with completely pseudoscientific bullshit backing it up. I've known whites from Jamaica who are perfectly integrated with Jamaican culture, accent and all. That's one of those things you do a double-take at because it's unusual, but otherwise shrug and ignore. "I identify as black" is just plain strange, especially because 'black' isn't a culture. Blacks living in different parts of America have pretty distinct cultures, just as states each have cultural distinctions. Then again, by the same metric, I suppose one could argue that the differences between the physical appearances of human sexes are superficial differences, and that men and women aren't fundamentally different mentally, so maybe I'm missing the point entirely. The problem as I'm pointing it out is that race is a social construct with no scientific basis, and an inherently destructive one, one that damages an egalitarian society. The sooner we're rid of it, the better.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51884203]No, you have a point - identifying as another ethnicity is perfectly valid. However, I take issue with the labels used there. She is biologically caucasian, according to her, but she identifies as black. That doesn't sound like ethnicity to me. She could have said "I identify with African culture" or "I identify with Carribean culture" and nobody would have blinked. I accused her of exacerbating social divides by making the distinction along lines of phenotypes rather than culture, because phenotypes, while completely insignificant scientifically, have been used as justification for these social divides historically, with completely pseudoscientific bullshit backing it up. I've known whites from Jamaica who are perfectly integrated with Jamaican culture, accent and all. That's one of those things you do a double-take at because it's unusual, but otherwise shrug and ignore. "I identify as black" is just plain strange. Then again, by the same metric, I suppose one could argue that the differences between the physical appearances of human sexes are superficial differences, and that men and women aren't fundamentally different mentally, so maybe I'm missing the point entirely. The problem as I'm pointing it out is that race is a social construct with no scientific basis, and an inherently destructive one, one that damages an egalitarian society. The sooner we're rid of it, the better.[/QUOTE] Well, I think in this case that's more unfortunate wording than it is anything else. The word 'black' has a lot of associations which is probably more what she was intending to put forth rather than saying she was black skinned in any way

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51884216]Well, I think in this case that's more unfortunate wording than it is anything else. The word 'black' has a lot of associations which is probably more what she was intending to put forth rather than saying she was black skinned in any way[/QUOTE] Maybe it was just a mistake in wording, but it was an issue that was ongoing over a pretty long time, and I may be wrong but I don't think she corrected that. I'm not sure what sort of political statement she'd been making.

[QUOTE=Robman8908;51882811]She's only been offered reality tv and porn jobs... [/quote] [QUOTE=Robman8908;51882811] so she isn't looking for a job that's like what the rest of us have because she probably thinks that's below her (as well as it seems she's expecting jobs to come to [i]her [/i] rather than looking). Welcome to the real world.[/quote] Uh.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884149]I'll just ask, what's valid and does that have ties to what we DO about something? Because I sure as hell don't know enough about psychology to know. There's a lot of weird examples, like the woman who was blinded by a doctor at her request.[/QUOTE] People control their own lives and we should only rarely intervene. Some advocate assisted suicide, how does changing your race compare? To me, it seems unimportant to oppose it.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51884229]Maybe it was just a mistake in wording, but it was an issue that was ongoing over a pretty long time, and I may be wrong but I don't think she corrected that. I'm not sure what sort of political statement she'd been making.[/QUOTE] In her Guardian interview it's pretty clear she's identifying as an ethnicity, but I'm not sure if she clarified that before now. To be fair to her, it's not like she would have made headlines had she done so, and it's not clear that she would have even been given a chance by the media at the time to do so as there was a lot of dogpiling going on She could have been a lot more clear at the outset, true, but I guess the whole thing was a lot to deal with. I'd hate to be one of those people in her shoes that just gets dogpiled on social media in that way, it must be really damaging [QUOTE=archangel125;51884203]The problem as I'm pointing it out is that race is a social construct with no scientific basis, and an inherently destructive one, one that damages an egalitarian society. The sooner we're rid of it, the better.[/QUOTE] I agree, but if what she did was commonplace, the idea of race would potentially become completely arbitrary or be relegated to that of a subculture eventually, which would be one way of doing it Ultimately I don't think it's possible to just do away with these social constructs, they will always exist at some level, but removing any form of power relations from them would be a great thing

[QUOTE=archangel125;51884177]Let's talk strictly scientific terms here. I'm no expert either, but I did have to study this stuff in college. A mental illness or disorder is maladaptive by nature. It impairs a person's functioning and their self-image. Being transgendered, to oversimplify it, means that you're not comfortable in the body you're born with and would feel better in the body of the opposite sex. Therefore, you have a mental disorder. There are some people who can go their entire lives and it doesn't affect them all that much. There are some who are crippled by it, and need counseling and medical help, because more disorders tend to crop up alongside any that are causing serious problems - this is known as comorbidity. For example, I was prescribed Adderall because my doctor found that I probably suffer from moderately severe ADHD, with mild depression as a comorbid disorder. There's nothing wrong with having some sort of disorder - I suspect most people do even if undiagnosed, partially as a result of the stresses of postmodern society that our species never really evolved to deal with. So I don't see why it's derogatory or wrong to call a problem what it is, scientifically. The only stigma something needs to have is what people add to it.[/QUOTE] I don't think you can say someone has a disorder if it doesn't affect them at all. If you're at 95% of normal capacity than what the disorder can do to you at its worst, you basically don't have it. Just my opinion though.

[QUOTE=RB33;51884254]I don't think you can say someone has a disorder if it doesn't affect them at all. If you're at 95% of normal capacity than what the disorder can do to you at its worst, you basically don't have it. Just my opinion though.[/QUOTE] That's almost correct, actually. You may still have the disorder, but it's considered mild. There's still that 5%, so it exists. If it's not affecting you negatively at all, it's not maladaptive.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51884149] I'll just ask, what's valid and does that have ties to what we DO about something? Because I sure as hell don't know enough about psychology to know. There's a lot of weird examples, like the woman who was blinded by a doctor at her request.[/QUOTE] People have the right to fuck up their lives as much as they can or so said some famous person I can't remember But in the case of the woman who was blinded by the doctor at her request, the doctor was within his rights to refuse that because he's the one doing the blinding. Really it's the right to intervene. Do you have the right to intervene in someone making decisions you don't find a moral basis for? Probably not. But then again, they also don't have the right to force you to be involved in those decisions. The only exception I can think of is if the person is going to make a decision that will cause them definite massive, lasting physical or emotional harm