Two Twelve Year Old Girls Attempt to Sacrfice Classmate to God of Creepypasta - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;44990105]People mature at such varying ages that it's impossible to encompass such rulings unless it's handled on a case-by-case basis. 18 is just the number that the US legal system decided would be the threshold between minor and adult.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=draugur;44990124]Technically your brain doesn't fully develop until you're 25 (24-25?) so you may as well be arguing that no one should be tried as an "adult" until 25. I doubt that will happen. Oh and this guy's post.[/QUOTE] 18 is a totally arbitrary number, yes, but that's the number. What's the point of even having that threshold if it's going to be ignored?

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44990155]18 is a totally arbitrary number, yes, but that's the number. What's the point of even having that threshold if it's going to be ignored?[/QUOTE] It "works" for [I]most[/I] people. It's not totally arbitrary, there was some rationale that went into choosing it. But you'll obviously have outlier cases where it doesn't work, and evaluating them on a case-by-case basis should take priority over using that cookie-cutter number. Something on the level of premeditated murder should always be one of those things evaluated on a case-by-case basis as there's a very clear intent that someone mature enough to not only comprehend but is willing, able, and takes deliberate steps to go through with taking the life of another has.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44989925]But they [I]are [/I]minors. That's literally the only thing that should matter.[/QUOTE] You realize these people thought out, prior to doing so, the attempted murder of one of their friends, [B]and[/B] continued to stab them 19 times. I like to point out the 19 times because that takes some serious work.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44990699]You realize these people thought out, prior to doing so, the attempted murder of one of their friends, [B]and[/B] continued to stab them 19 times. I like to point out the 19 times because that takes some serious work.[/QUOTE] I would like to point out that they genuinely believed a deity of corruption and death was stalking them and are likely just starting to learn advanced algebra.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44989524]Premetitative assault and stabbing, luring a supposed friend to stab, continuously stabbing them [B]19[/B] times, and leaving them for dead. I'm sorry but that's a bit too much for me to look at to be tried as a minor. I hope they get help, but they also need to accept the consequences of their actions. I could see being charged as a minor if they stabbed once and realized what the fuck they did an ran, but 19 times takes some serious dedication and determinination.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44990699]You realize these people thought out, prior to doing so, the attempted murder of one of their friends, [B]and[/B] continued to stab them 19 times. I like to point out the 19 times because that takes some serious work.[/QUOTE] But how does that change their age? Is there something about being a minor that means that you can't commit horrible crimes (and if you do commit one, you're magically 18 or older)? The point of trying people as minors is so you don't fuck up their lives and they can actually eventually become a productive member of society. Trying them as an adult and saying "just throw them in prison until they're in their late 70s" is not an appropriate response to this.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44990699]You realize these people thought out, prior to doing so, the attempted murder of one of their friends, [B]and[/B] continued to stab them 19 times. I like to point out the 19 times because that takes some serious work.[/QUOTE] But they're still minors. I don't care what you do, it can't change your age. Fuck, if anything the severity of the crime suggests that they have even [I]less[/I] perspective than a rational adult, so why would they be tried as one?

Remember folks, just because they are being tried as adults [i]does not mean[/i] they are going to get 65 years in prison. Saying "I tried to kill my friend because the very real god of creepypasta, Slenderman, demands sacrifice as a sign of true devotion" is a strong case to make for the insanity defense.

Lol I made a picture of myself with Slenderman to scare one of my friends.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44993394]Remember folks, just because they are being tried as adults [i]does not mean[/i] they are going to get 65 years in prison. Saying "I tried to kill my friend because the very real god of creepypasta, Slenderman, demands sacrifice as a sign of true devotion" is a strong case to make for the insanity defense.[/QUOTE] The fact that there's even the chance of throwing 12 year olds in prison for their entire lives is bad enough.

I guess I'm going to play hard here, and I'm probably going to get a lot of dumbs for this but... With our current laws, perhaps they should have thought about the consequences for attempting to murder someone before doing it? Yeah they're 12, but I find myself not being overly sympathetic since they weren't too young to understand that killing is wrong. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] They are probably going to get a light sentence for their age, or they might not. Who knows.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44989524]Premetitative assault and stabbing, luring a supposed friend to stab, continuously stabbing them [B]19[/B] times, and leaving them for dead. I'm sorry but that's a bit too much for me to look at to be tried as a minor. I hope they get help, but they also need to accept the consequences of their actions. I could see being charged as a minor if they stabbed once and realized what the fuck they did an ran, but 19 times takes some serious dedication and determinination.[/QUOTE] legal insanity is defined as not being able to understand the consequences of your actions how can a person be expected to take responsibility when they are mentally incapable of doing so furthermore, how is putting them in prison going to make them take responsibility by any measure? when someone yells at you for doing something bad, and you didn't think you did anything wrong, you don't go 'oh geez i made an error let me fix that', you think 'wow what a fucking asshole fuck that guy i don't want his shitty advice'. punishment builds a victimization complex because [I]people don't do malicious things unless they either don't know they're wrong or they feel like they're justified[/I]. to rectify a person who has committed a crime, you need to effectively convince them that what they've done was not acceptable, and then provide them with the tools and support to lead them towards making sound and healthy decisions, not just slap them in the face and tell them that they're bad people.

I really hope this is one of those things that end up on one of Cracked.com's "even more news articles that were complete bullshit" articles, because I refuse to believe that something this retarded actually happened. This is just too farfetched for me.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44993712]I guess I'm going to play hard here, and I'm probably going to get a lot of dumbs for this but... With our current laws, perhaps they should have thought about the consequences for attempting to murder someone before doing it? Yeah they're 12, but I find myself not being overly sympathetic since they weren't too young to understand that killing is wrong. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] They are probably going to get a light sentence for their age, or they might not. Who knows.[/QUOTE] Do you really think anyone who is going to murder someone has said "oh, wait, it's illegal." The thing stopping most people from killing each other is not the law.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44993712]I guess I'm going to play hard here, and I'm probably going to get a lot of dumbs for this but... With our current laws, perhaps they should have thought about the consequences for attempting to murder someone before doing it? Yeah they're 12, but I find myself not being overly sympathetic since they weren't too young to understand that killing is wrong. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] They are probably going to get a light sentence for their age, or they might not. Who knows.[/QUOTE] They should have, but they didn't. Why didn't they? Because naïvety borne of age.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;44994147]Do you really think anyone who is going to murder someone has said "oh, wait, it's illegal." The thing stopping most people from killing each other is not the law.[/QUOTE] I am saying that I do not have sympathy for these girls and that I don't disagree with them being treated as adults in this case. They most likely knew the repercussions for doing this and they chose to go through with it anyways. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44994330]They should have, but they didn't. Why didn't they? Because naïvety borne of age.[/QUOTE] When I was young and naïve, I didn't try to kill anyone.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44994355]I am saying that I do not have sympathy for these girls and that I don't disagree with them being treated as adults in this case. They most likely knew the repercussions for doing this and they chose to go through with it anyways. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] When I was young and naïve, I didn't try to kill anyone.[/QUOTE] Exactly. So you might think there's something wrong with these girls, then?

[QUOTE=supersnail11;44994382]Exactly. So you might think there's something wrong with these girls, then?[/QUOTE] I do believe there is a high probability that they are batshit.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44994444]I do believe there is a high probability that they are batshit.[/QUOTE] And you think that maybe giving them some treatment instead of locking them in prison until they're 77 might be a good idea?

[QUOTE=supersnail11;44994508]And you think that maybe giving them some treatment instead of locking them in prison until they're 77 might be a good idea?[/QUOTE] I said this a little farther up the page. I think they are going to plea insanity and get whatever treatment is associated with that. [QUOTE=Kartoffel;44993394]Remember folks, just because they are being tried as adults [i]does not mean[/i] they are going to get 65 years in prison. Saying "I tried to kill my friend because the very real god of creepypasta, Slenderman, demands sacrifice as a sign of true devotion" is a strong case to make for the insanity defense.[/QUOTE]

It's tough to argue they should be tried as adults. This means 12 year olds should be allowed to vote, to serve in the military, to consent to having sex, to sign legally binding contracts...all the things we do not allow children to do because [i]they're not old enough[/i].

Great time to be the founder of the Slenderman wiki. My former passion is now plastered on news media outlets because of a tragedy. Yippee.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44994698']Great time to be the founder of the Slenderman wiki. My former passion is now plastered on news media outlets because of a tragedy. Yippee.[/QUOTE] It's all your fault.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44994554]I said this a little farther up the page. I think they are going to plea insanity and get whatever treatment is associated with that.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make my point any less valid.

That knowing the consequences will not prevent crimes? I don't think it will reduce crimes. Should they go unpunished, or lightly punished? Depends on the severity. In this case, if they are not found to be insane, then I think they deserve what the court sentences unless it's a slap on the wrist with a stern warning. This also brings out the question: If someone found to not be insane attempted murder with full knowledge of the repercussions, why should they receive a lighter sentence based on age? What if they had succeeded? They lack the moral integrity to do the right thing already. Will therapy fix the disregard for another person's life? I can understand that you may feel uncomfortable about these girls being tried as adults, but this isn't something that can go unpunished. But speculation before the trial doesn't solve anything, and the best thing to do is wait for the trial and wait for their sentence. EDIT: What I would do is charge Weier at a juvenile level because she was more of an accessory, and felt remorse. Geyser, on the other hand, I would charge as a adult. She said that she "felt no regret".

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;44995004]Will therapy fix the disregard for another person's life?[/quote] yes disregard for another person's life occurs for a reason - sometimes out of necessity, sometimes out of ideology, sometimes out of a lack of empathy. there are ways to rectify all of these things. and the insanity plea only occurs in less than 1% of cases, only 1/4 of those cases succeed, and the majority of those successes are through plea bargains.

I have no problem with them being tried, and convicted, as adults. They goddamn well [i]stabbed[/i] like adults.

I'm having a hard time believing that they were both crazy enough to buy into Slenderman being real. It sounds much more plausible that they wanted to kill this girl when put next to the idea of them being delusional together. What sounds simpler? "We believed in a creepypasta on the internet and felt that if we didn't sacrifice this person to Slenderman we were going to be killed. Our reward was to become proxies as well, so there's additional incentive!" "We wanted to kill this person because we hate her."

[QUOTE=NuclearJesus;44995572]I have no problem with them being tried, and convicted, as adults. They goddamn well [I]stabbed[/I] like adults.[/QUOTE] yeah dude good point being able to move your arm back and forth definitely means you are mentally mature enough to be thrown into jail for the rest of your life. [editline]4th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=wauterboi;44996073]I'm having a hard time believing that they were both crazy enough to buy into Slenderman being real. It sounds much more plausible that they wanted to kill this girl when put next to the idea of them being delusional together. What sounds simpler? "We believed in a creepypasta on the internet and felt that if we didn't sacrifice this person to Slenderman we were going to be killed. Our reward was to become proxies as well, so there's additional incentive!" "We wanted to kill this person because we hate her."[/QUOTE] i think you are vilifying them a bit. if we are gonna believe they are lying i'd imagine they know they fucked up without understanding what they did completely and are now lying because they are scared shitless. i mean when i was 12 that's what i would have done. you are making them out to be some kind of fucking devilspawn

Well, I'm not saying, "Let's lock them up for an eternity!" What I'm saying I'm not buying that they believed they were sacrificing to Slenderman.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;44992791]But how does that change their age? Is there something about being a minor that means that you can't commit horrible crimes (and if you do commit one, you're magically 18 or older)? The point of trying people as minors is so you don't fuck up their lives and they can actually eventually become a productive member of society. Trying them as an adult and saying "just throw them in prison until they're in their late 70s" is not an appropriate response to this.[/QUOTE] Mentally they are capable of planning things on the level of adults, that's what matters. [editline]4th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=joes33431;44993830]legal insanity is defined as not being able to understand the consequences of your actions how can a person be expected to take responsibility when they are mentally incapable of doing so furthermore, how is putting them in prison going to make them take responsibility by any measure? when someone yells at you for doing something bad, and you didn't think you did anything wrong, you don't go 'oh geez i made an error let me fix that', you think 'wow what a fucking asshole fuck that guy i don't want his shitty advice'. punishment builds a victimization complex because [I]people don't do malicious things unless they either don't know they're wrong or they feel like they're justified[/I]. to rectify a person who has committed a crime, you need to effectively convince them that what they've done was not acceptable, and then provide them with the tools and support to lead them towards making sound and healthy decisions, not just slap them in the face and tell them that they're bad people.[/QUOTE] Again, how does going to prison nullify them getting the help they need? I get they may not have fully understood how the world works and if so they need help, but we can't ignore what they did that's up for the courts and victim to decide. Just because they are tried as adults does not mean that they 1) are no longer able to get help they need for mental illness 2) not able to get out of prison early on parole or probation for being successfully rehabilitated 3) not able to get less than the maximum 65 years Why do people seem to forget these things?