[QUOTE=NoDachi;38422723]That is exactly my point. The graph you chose from 'justfacts.com' is the same graph from that report you posted by the Government.
Except in the Government report it is [I]offences[/I], in your justfacts.com it is dramatically called homicides.
Can we just move along from this point about how Britain became a more dangerous place after the ban because we all know it isn't true?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html]Oh okay.[/url]
It's time to take off your nationalist glasses, Daichi, and just admit that your country not only lacks freedom, but is also a relatively dangerous place to live.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38422695]Fun fact: Most gun related deaths are not committed by ~known criminals~.
Also another fun fact: A gun in the home kills more owners or family members than intruders or ~criminals~[/QUOTE]
That is irresponsible gun ownership at work. Not a problem with the existence of guns whatsoever.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422770]I suggest you take off your nationalist glasses, Daichi, and just admit that your country not only lacks freedom, but is also a relatively dangerous place to live.[/QUOTE]
gahahahahahahhahahaha you are a joke
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422770][url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html]Oh okay.[/url]
I suggest you take off your nationalist glasses, Daichi, and just admit that your country not only lacks freedom, but is also a relatively dangerous place to live.[/QUOTE]
I'm convinced this guy is just satiring us to hell and back
[editline]12th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38422777]That is irresponsible gun ownership at work. Not a problem with the existence of guns whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
whitewash alert
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38420278]this has yet to happen in australia
also the video is fucking hilarious
it practically compares gun control to the holocaust lmao
[editline]12th November 2012[/editline]
The more I see of these shitty videos and arguments made in favour of guns, the more inclined I am to believe that gun control actually works, and that people who oppose it tend to be paranoid loonies.[/QUOTE]
Funny how crime goes up when more restrictive gun laws are put in place. Do you not realize that criminals will still get weapons [b]no matter what you do?[/b] Most violent crime( for example a gang embroiled in a drug/turf war) has been committed with illegal weapons. You're inclined to believe gun control works simply because of the culture you've grown up in, and you probably didn't remember that America is a massive melting pot of cultures, religions, ethnic groups, ect. It might work in an area where you virtually have one race and religion, but that's not how it is here, and probably never will be.
Funny how you say people that oppose it are paranoid loonies, you think we all buy guns out of fear or whatever bullshit you've made up in your head. Most buy them for target shooting, hunting, and home defense. You've tend to generalize the shit out of the majority of people in the usa in your posts.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;38422721]yeah uh, gonna need some statistics on that.[/QUOTE]
Arthur Kellermann report 1984:
54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept
70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns
0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry
1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense
there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38420278]the video is fucking hilarious
it practically compares gun control to the holocaust lmao[/QUOTE]
It's an undeniable fact that dictators, including Hitler, have used gun control to stay in power, and even commit genocide.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422770][url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html]Oh okay.[/url]
It's time to take off your nationalist glasses, Daichi, and just admit that your country not only lacks freedom, but is also a relatively dangerous place to live.[/QUOTE]
Are you actually serious?
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;38422805]Funny how crime goes up when more restrictive gun laws are put in place. Do you not realize that criminals will still get weapons [b]no matter what you do?[/b][/QUOTE]
You still make it harder for them to get guns however.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38422797]whitewash alert[/QUOTE]
Call it what you will, but there are plenty of responsible gun owners who take proper security measures. My grandfather for example has his guns in several combination safes and all ammo is stored in a different room.
The only reason a gun kills a family member or owner is improper handling, storage or procedure.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422846]It's an undeniable fact that dictators, including Hitler, have used gun control to stay in power, and even commit genocide.[/QUOTE]
It is deniable because there is no correlation between public firearms and democracy.
Some of the worlds worst places are awash with publicly available firearms.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38422865]Call it what you will, but there are plenty of responsible gun owners who take proper security measures. My grandfather for example has his guns in several combination safes and all ammo is stored in a different room.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but half of the population has an IQ below the average.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422846]It's an undeniable fact that dictators, including Hitler, have used gun control to stay in power, and even commit genocide.[/QUOTE]
I posted this earlier, but uh.. the Nazis completely deregulated the transfer and sale of rifles, shotguns and ammunition in 1938. Pistols could be acquired with a permit. The whole 'Nazi gun control' thing is sort of a myth.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38422878]Yes, but half of the population has an IQ below the average.[/QUOTE]
And this matters...why? Nice job pulling useless semantics out of your ass.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38422878]Yes, but half of the population has an IQ below the average.[/QUOTE]
So then don't give those people guns, simple as that.
If they can't add digits I don't want them to own a gun.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38422866]It is deniable because there is no correlation between public firearms and democracy.
Some of the worlds worst places are awash with publicly available firearms.[/QUOTE]
Yet, in those countries, guns are banned. A major aspect of democracy is respect for the rights of others, even if that group is a minority in your country. So yes.
Also, any government that bans guns or implements strict gun control has already violated the fundamental rights of their people and has no respect for freedom.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38422896]So then don't give those people guns, simple as that.
If they can't add digits I don't want them to own a gun.[/QUOTE]
Except that's a form of gun control (which is verboten according to gunpunchers).
[QUOTE=Gordy H.;38422889]I posted this earlier, but uh.. the Nazis completely deregulated the transfer and sale of rifles, shotguns and ammunition in 1938. Pistols could be acquired with a permit. The whole 'Nazi gun control' thing is sort of a myth.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was the Italians that were harsh on gun control, not the Nazis.
[QUOTE=Gordy H.;38422889]I posted this earlier, but uh.. the Nazis completely deregulated the transfer and sale of rifles, shotguns and ammunition in 1938. Pistols could be acquired with a permit. The whole 'Nazi gun control' thing is sort of a myth.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect. Hitler made it illegal for "undesirables" (including Jews) to own guns.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422909]Yet, in those countries, guns are banned. A major aspect of democracy is respect for the rights of others, even if that group is a minority in your country. So yes.
Also, any government that bans guns or implements strict gun control has already violated the fundamental rights of their people and has no respect for freedom.[/QUOTE]
[I]"Of course not. The idea that, in the modern world, a country full of people with private handguns, shotguns and AR-15s in their households is more likely to remain a liberal democracy than a country whose citizens lack such weapons is frankly ridiculous. Worldwide, there is no correlation whatsoever at the country level between private handgun ownership and liberal democracy. There are no cases of democratic countries in which nascent authoritarian governments were successfully resisted due to widespread gun ownership. When authoritarian governments come to power in democracies (which is rare), they do so at the ballot box or with heavy popular support; where juntas overthrow democratic governments, as in Greece, Brazil, Chile or Iran, popular gun ownership is irrelevant. "[/I]
[url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/gun-rights[/url]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38422921]Except that's a form of gun control (which is verboten according to gunpunchers).[/QUOTE]
Nobody is saying guns should be completely legal. The Constitution says that the militia is to be well regulated. The problem is current regulations are ridiculous and don't accomplish anything near what they intended to do.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38422921]Except that's a form of gun control (which is verboten according to gunpunchers).[/QUOTE]
I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't mind some gun control, as long as it's effective and not just annoying barriers like the 1994 assault weapons ban or the poorly maintained gun control in Chicago and D.C.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38422949]Nobody is saying guns should be completely legal. The Constitution says that the militia is to be well regulated. The problem is current regulations are ridiculous and don't accomplish anything near what they intended to do.[/QUOTE]
I actually agree with this believe it or not.
If you honestly want a "well regulated militia" that isn't the National Guard, people should be able to own tanks, anti-aircraft missiles and everything.
Otherwise that point on the constitution is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422933]Incorrect. Hitler made it illegal for "undesirables" (including Jews) to own guns.[/QUOTE]
source
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38422949]Nobody is saying guns should be completely legal. The Constitution says that the militia is to be well regulated. The problem is current regulations are ridiculous and don't accomplish anything near what they intended to do.[/QUOTE]
I think you need to re-read the Second Amendment.
[video=youtube;_YY5Rj4cQ50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YY5Rj4cQ50[/video]
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422992]I think you need to re-read the Second Amendment.
[video=youtube;_YY5Rj4cQ50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YY5Rj4cQ50[/video][/QUOTE]
Penn and Teller are ok until you get in the way of their libertarian agenda.
If you criticize them they call you an asshole and then distract the viewer with tits.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422992]I think you need to re-read the Second Amendment.
[video=youtube;_YY5Rj4cQ50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YY5Rj4cQ50[/video][/QUOTE]
yeah but that's from a document that's 200 years old and makes me feel bad because I can't argue against it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38422921]Except that's a form of gun control (which is verboten according to gunpunchers).[/QUOTE]
You're over exaggerating the points we're making. The majority for us are for regulation of firearms, but not outright banning them or making it impossible to get them without having to do months of paperwork. You also act like it's an easy and 5 minute process to buy a firearm in the US. You have to fill out paperwork and pass a backround check before you can walk out the door with a firearm, and depending on the state you live in, there might be a "cool off" period or you may have to get permits.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38423010]yeah but that's from a document that's 200 years old and makes me feel bad because I can't argue against it.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if anyone who so valiantly defends the second amendment also would valiantly defending the 18th amendment when they removed that from the constitution.
Or is the whole thing just a farce of self-serving interests?
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38422933]Incorrect. Hitler made it illegal for "undesirables" (including Jews) to own guns.[/QUOTE]
Jews were the only group forbidden from owning weapons, no other 'undesirables'. Even then, Jews were only forbidden from owning firearms in Austria and the Sudetenland.
[quote]
§1
Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.
§6
This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.
[/quote]
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