I am not saying that people with guns are shooting random people. But statistics show that nations where guns are more accessible are inclined to have more deaths due to them.
[QUOTE=junker|154;38404291]I am not saying that people with guns are shooting random people. But statistics show that nations where guns are more accessible are inclined to have more deaths due to them.[/QUOTE]
And nations without accessible guns have more deaths due to being stabbed or beaten.
[QUOTE=junker|154;38404291]I am not saying that people with guns are shooting random people. But statistics show that nations where guns are more accessible are inclined to have more deaths due to them.[/QUOTE]
Mexico would disagree. There is a single gunshop in the whole country, and it is on a military base in Mexico City. You can't even get inside without government paperwork allowing you to buy a gun.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38404058]Except that it would be since it's in the constitution, FYI.[/QUOTE]
Guns aren't as important as they used to be.
I am not aware of that. During university classes we discussed this and we were shown some charts and statistics on this matter. This is really an interesting thought. I do not know if this is true tough. People use guns as a detterent or to scare away people if they are threatened, causing some accidents. When I get robbed on the streets, I get a good scare and beating. But ultimatively nobody would be killed in the end, except for some crazy situations. It might not be great for the individual citizen but in the masses it makes a difference.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404343]Guns aren't as important as they used to be.[/QUOTE]
Neither is alcohol. Actually, that was never important, neither was tobacco, so why don't we ban those. Weed too, nothing good ever came out of it, that's for sure.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38404327]Mexico would disagree. There is a single gunshop in the whole country, and it is on a military base in Mexico City. You can't even get inside without government paperwork allowing you to buy a gun.[/QUOTE]
There are tons of guns in mexico and all the big cities are plagued with crime. It should be fairly easy to get a gun if every cheap and accessible gangster can get one, although illegaly.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404343]Guns aren't as important as they used to be.[/QUOTE]
By that logic you could discard a lot of other rights too.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38404355]Neither is alcohol. Actually, that was never important, neither was tobacco, so why don't we ban those. Weed too, nothing good ever came out of it, that's for sure.[/QUOTE]
No, guns really aren't as important to the average American life as they were when it was founded.
America has an army and police forces, plus criminologists and schools.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;38404371]By that logic you could discard a lot of other rights too.[/QUOTE]
The right to free healthcare is infinitely superior to the right to bear arms.
[QUOTE=tier56;38403941]I really don't get why people keep going "hurr durr, Obama's gonna take our guns". Just because he's democratic doesn't mean that he hates guns and wants to ban them with every fiber of his body.[/QUOTE]
Well people on Stormfront were talking about getting more guns and ammo in case shit hit the fan and so they would have an excuse to shoot at Mexicans and Blacks :v:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404375]No, guns really aren't as important to the average American life as they were when it was founded.
America has an army and police forces, plus criminologists and schools.[/QUOTE]
Army and Police forces aren't very useful in rural areas or areas without proper infrastructure where it can take law enforcement officials over half an hour to arrive on scene, and what the heck do schools have to do with anything?
[quote]The right to free healthcare is infinitely superior to the right to bear arms.[/quote]
You don't live in america, do you?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;38404390]Army and Police forces aren't very useful in rural areas or areas without proper infrastructure where it can take law enforcement officials over half an hour to arrive on scene, and what the heck do schools have to do with anything?[/QUOTE]
Well, in the 1700s most Americans needed a firearm because none of those things existed.
The advent of them since then has massively diminished the importance of guns (schools providing better education and helping children to gain access to opportunities in life that guns cannot provide).
[QUOTE=Ardosos;38404390]
You don't live in america, do you?[/QUOTE]
He lives in Sweden.
He has no idea how this place actually is, comparing police forces in europe to the ones here is not good. Especially if you have never set foot here.
I personally don't know how it is there, but because we are spread over a lot more land means that response time for any emergency services is increased.
I live in a small country, still going out or being outside is dangerous. There has been tons of situations where I got threatened on the streets at night or even at daytime. At that moment I wished I had some kind of deterrent to piss them off.
Anyways guns may be effective at first but in the big picture, they only cause more problems.
Besides we do not have any efficent police at all, they are undermanned and never use any kind of lethal force against anyone, except for some really severe situations.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404419]Well, in the 1700s most Americans needed a firearm because none of those things existed.
The advent of them since then has massively diminished the importance of guns (schools providing better education and helping children to gain access to opportunities in life that guns cannot provide).[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked, schools existed in the 1700s.
[QUOTE=Siminov;38404421]I personally don't know how it is there, but because we are spread over a lot more land means that response time for any emergency services is increased.[/QUOTE]
Except urban areas exist in America too, and hold the bulk of the population.
[QUOTE=RudeMcRude;38404047]Americans are to damn gun crazy. It's not a big deal if guns get banned. You'll be just like pretty much every other country. I say this not because having the right to bare arms causes nut jobs and shootings. That's just stupid. I say it because American's get to obsessed with them. Who gives a rats ass if they make you have a license to own one. Oh no you won't be allowed to carry your beloved 44 Magnum with you to a nice family dinner in case that .0001% chance someone tries to mug you and your family. It's just dumb.[/QUOTE]
You have no clue what you're saying, please stop, you're making yourself look stupid.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38404440]Last time I checked, schools existed in the 1700s.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but still there are now more schools and educational institous than during that time period.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404458]Except urban areas exist in America too, and hold the bulk of the population.[/QUOTE]
you're right lets just get everyone living in a rural area killed
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38404440]Last time I checked, schools existed in the 1700s.[/QUOTE]
Not national public schools with compulsory education and curriculum funded by public taxation however (in America that is).
[editline]11th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38404466]you're right lets just get everyone living in a rural area killed[/QUOTE]
I wasn't implying that. Do it only for urban areas then.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38404327]Mexico would disagree. There is a single gunshop in the whole country, and it is on a military base in Mexico City. You can't even get inside without government paperwork allowing you to buy a gun.[/QUOTE]
there is one LEGAL gunshop.
how do you think the cartels get their firearms?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404458]Except urban areas exist in America too, and hold the bulk of the population.[/QUOTE]
Yet again, there are big cities where people live in. But you forget that there are smaller cities and towns with more spread out population, the further you go out from the big cities, the smaller and more spread out the towns get. The response times of a smaller police force combined with a spread out area equals bad news. You would be dead or injured by time they got there.
[QUOTE=Siminov;38404494]Yet again, there are big cities where people live in. But you forget that there are smaller cities and towns with more spread out population, the further you go out from the big cities, the smaller and more spread out the towns get. The response times of a smaller police force combined with a spread out area equals bad news. You would be dead or injured by time they got there.[/QUOTE]
Yes but I am only talking about urban areas in this instance where response times are fast.
Rural areas exist in Europe too, and they get on happily despite the less lenient gun laws.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404458]Except urban areas exist in America too, and hold the bulk of the population.[/QUOTE]
There are urban areas with underfunded and understaffed police departments, and with poor roads that result in slow traffic. Both of these factors negatively affect law enforcement response times.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404375]No, guns really aren't as important to the average American life as they were when it was founded.
America has an army and police forces, plus criminologists and schools.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to remind you that the police aren't superheroes. If someone breaks into your house, you won't have time to call the police, let alone wait for them to show up. I'd rather not depend on them either, considering how they've let me down a few times in the past before.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404375]
The right to free healthcare is infinitely superior to the right to bear arms.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but did I ever mention anything about healthcare?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;38404514]There are urban areas with underfunded and understaffed police departments, and with poor roads that result in slow traffic. Both of these factors negatively affect law enforcement response times.[/QUOTE]
Well fund the police departments and fix the roads. Having more guns is going to fix fuck all.
[QUOTE=junker|154;38404256]I would love me a gun at home, it would give me sense of security. But that is false. Guns only lead to deaths. It is statistically proven that countries with more guns in the households have more deaths [b]due to use of lethal weapons.[/b] Where I live now I would not want a gun at all to be honest.
I like guns, I would love to have one and practice shooting at a shooting range or something, but they only cause damage. You just need to look at the big picture.[/QUOTE]
I'm no gun nut, but this is just blatant misrepresentation of statistics. Wow, areas with legalized guns have more gun related violence. Big fucking surprise. Until you make a claim on overall violent crime levels (which is a pile of giblets that used to be a dead horse around these parts), your entire statement here is completely and utterly meaningless.
It's an irrelevant statistic. It's like saying that banning condoms reduces their use. No fucking shit. Does it have any impact on how many people have sex, and how frequently?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38404467]Not national public schools with compulsory education and curriculum funded by public taxation however (in America that is).[/QUOTE]
public schools were popping up as soon as the 1820s. Before 1789 there was no government to speak of in the United States.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38404527]I'm no gun nut, but this is just blatant misrepresentation of statistics. Wow, areas with legalized guns have more gun related violence. Big fucking surprise. Until you make a claim on overall violent crime levels (which is a pile of giblets that used to be a dead horse around these parts), your entire statement here is completely and utterly meaningless.
It's an irrelevant statistic. It's like saying that banning condoms reduces their use. No fucking shit. Does it have any impact on how many people have sex, and how frequently?[/QUOTE]
I agree. My phrasing is a bit bad and I am not capable of rephrasing it to a reasonable sentence. I am not sure if it was the overall death due to crime or gunrelated crime and their correlation with deaths. I need to check that again.
But I am still believing that guns increase the amounts of death in a country.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38404527]
It's an irrelevant statistic. It's like saying that banning condoms reduces their use. No fucking shit. Does it have any impact on how many people have sex, and how frequently?[/QUOTE]
no, but guns are bad. violence is only bad when people are killed by guns.
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