Christian bakery under fire for not making cake with logo of activist group - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45339113]i'm pretty sure they have the right to refuse service but not to discriminate[/QUOTE] Still, this was about denying support of a political movement rather than denying service because of the customer's orientation. You shouldn't be forced to show support of a movement that you don't agree with. On a side note, are Bert and Ernie "canonically" gay? Or is that just a fan thing?

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45339300]You shouldn't be forced to show support of a movement that you don't agree with.[/QUOTE] they were asked to make a cake not support a movement

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45339300]Still, this was about denying support of a political movement rather than denying service because of the customer's orientation. You shouldn't be forced to show support of a movement that you don't agree with. On a side note, are Bert and Ernie "canonically" gay? Or is that just a fan thing?[/QUOTE] You're not showing support. You're getting paid to make a cake. You shouldn't be able to just pick and choose what you would be willing to make when providing a service.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45339300]Still, this was about denying support of a political movement rather than denying service because of the customer's orientation. You shouldn't be forced to show support of a movement that you don't agree with. On a side note, are Bert and Ernie "canonically" gay? Or is that just a fan thing?[/QUOTE] I think it's the same thing as shrek and shadow the hedgehog.

the business has literally no reason to turn the order away other than being prejudiced against homosexuality on a religious basis it has nothing to do with the business being 'forced' to support a movement, nobody but the people who order the cake and the business are going to know they made it in the first place [editline]9th July 2014[/editline] there's a distinct line between refusing something for being downright tasteless (evident gore, pornography etc.) and refusing something just because you disagree with the views of the customer

If they wanted the Queerspace logo flanked by gratuitously detailed human phallus's then maybe they would have a case. Otherwise this is just an absurd waste of time. I work next to a bakery that would have no problem doing this regardless of personal feelings because it's a fucking cake and your job is to decorate cakes. Everyone is so eager to point out how everyone else except the establishment itself is being a stick in the mud when it's as simple as putting on a logo and selling it. [QUOTE] "In the past, we've declined several orders which have contained pornographic images and offensive, foul language."[/QUOTE] Yeah, so offensive :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;45339362]You're not showing support. You're getting paid to make a cake. You shouldn't be able to just pick and choose what you would be willing to make when providing a service.[/QUOTE] It's called service, not servitude. You can pick what you serve, but not necessarily whom you serve.

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;45339362]You're not showing support. You're getting paid to make a cake. You shouldn't be able to just pick and choose what you would be willing to make when providing a service.[/QUOTE] I think that's something that comes along with the whole "owning your own business" thing. I don't see why this is such a big issue, I mean last time I checked bakeries aren't hard to find. [editline]9th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Gentry;45328606][img]https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1386/33/1386330358326.jpg[/img] private business deal with it[/QUOTE] They aren't refusing service because they are gay, they don't want to make a product that has a symbol on it that they don't agree with.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45340034]I don't see why this is such a big issue, I mean last time I checked bakeries aren't hard to find.[/QUOTE] so your issue is with only how easy something is to find? Implying if finding bakeries were hard to find you would have a problem with it? [editline]9th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45340034] They aren't refusing service because they are gay[/QUOTE] well they are lets face it

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45340034]They aren't refusing service because they are gay, they don't want to make a product that has a symbol on it that they don't agree with.[/QUOTE] what is the difference. they don't want to put a gay symbol on a cake because they have a problem with homosexuality. that's why it is discrimination.

[QUOTE=Gentry;45340079] well they are lets face it[/QUOTE] If straight customers had asked for the same cake, would they have been turned down? Yes. Therefore it isn't discrimination based on sexuality.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340106]what is the difference. they don't want to put a gay symbol on a cake because they have a problem with homosexuality. that's why it is discrimination.[/QUOTE] Then it would be discrimination against the other religious party to make them compromise on their beliefs... [QUOTE=Gentry;45340079]so your issue is with only how easy something is to find? Implying if finding bakeries were hard to find you would have a problem with it?[/QUOTE] Probably not, I don't think I'd have a problem with a place refusing to decorate a product with a symbol that another party finds offensive.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340131]If straight customers had asked for the same cake, would they have been turned down? Yes. Therefore it isn't discrimination based on sexuality.[/QUOTE] when the symbol is representative of a specific sexuality then yeah it is. if a straight customer asked for a cake with a symbol for "traditional marriage" would they have been turned down? i'm willing to bet they wouldn't.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340155]when the symbol is representative of a specific sexuality then yeah it is. if a straight customer asked for a cake with a symbol for "traditional marriage" would they have been turned down? i'm willing to bet they wouldn't.[/QUOTE] No, they wouldn't have. But if a gay customer asked for a cake with a symbol for traditional marriage, they also wouldn't have been turned down.

[QUOTE=Gentry;45340079] well they are lets face it[/QUOTE] "A Christian-run bakery that refused a customer's request to make a cake with a slogan supporting gay marriage could face a discrimination case in court. Ashers Baking Company declined an order from a gay rights activist, asking for cake featuring the Sesame Street puppets, Bert and Ernie. The customer also wanted the cake to feature the logo of a Belfast-based campaign group called "Queerspace"." they took the order for the Bert and Ernie, but only declined when the "queerspace" logo came into question and offered a full refund to the customer. It's almost as if they didn't care about the persons sexuality...

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340171]No, they wouldn't have. But if a gay customer asked for a cake with a symbol for traditional marriage, they also wouldn't have been turned down.[/QUOTE] so they're willing to make a cake with a symbol for traditional marriage but not gay marriage. how is that not discrimination?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340186]so they're willing to make a cake with a symbol for traditional marriage but not gay marriage. how is that not discrimination?[/QUOTE] It's a political statement, exactly the same as a company refusing to make caskes with swastikas on them.

there's a distinct difference between 'we're not baking your cake, gay' and 'we're not baking your gay cake'

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45340178]It's almost as if they didn't care about the persons sexuality...[/QUOTE] They probably didn't know their sexuality until the Queerspace logo turned up. So that's a pretty non-point going on there.

[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;45340211]there's a distinct difference between 'we're not baking your cake, gay' and 'we're not baking your gay cake'[/QUOTE] i don't see the distinction. "we're not baking your cake, black" "we're not baking your black cake" "we're not baking your cake, girl" "we're not baking your girly cake" it all comes down to the same reason. [editline]9th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340208]It's a political statement, exactly the same as a company refusing to make caskes with swastikas on them.[/QUOTE] and a pro-traditional marriage cake isn't a political statement? what about a cake with a picture of MLK? very selective of you.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45340214]They probably didn't know their sexuality until the Queerspace logo turned up. So that's a pretty non-point going on there.[/QUOTE] I don't remember seeing where anyone stated their sexual preferences before the reason of cancellation of the order in the article, there are plenty of straight people in support of gay marriage.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340245]i don't see the distinction. "we're not baking your cake, black" "we're not baking your black cake" "we're not baking your cake, girl" "we're not baking your girly cake" it all comes down to the same reason.[/QUOTE] What's on the cake doesn't have to have anything to do with the identity of the customer. Yes, these people are evidently homophobic, but the fact remains that they didn't reject the cake because it was commissioned by a gay person, they rejected it because it was commissioned to uphold a political statement with which they don't agree. No matter who commissioned it, the result would have been the same. I don't see what's hard about this. [editline]9th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340245]and a pro-traditional marriage cake isn't a political statement? what about a cake with a picture of MLK? very selective of you.[/QUOTE] They are political statements, ones which the bakery would presumably agree. I chose the swastika example because that's an obvious example of one which would be rejected.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45340263]I don't remember seeing where anyone stated their sexual preferences before the reason of cancellation of the order in the article, there are plenty of straight people in support of gay marriage.[/QUOTE] Right, but denying something in support of gay rights and stuff is kinda indicative of homophobia in general. It could easily be used against them, unless they can say with absolute certainty that even though they clearly have something wrong with gays, they'd still serve them.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340186]so they're willing to make a cake with a symbol for traditional marriage but not gay marriage. how is that not discrimination?[/QUOTE] Would you demand they bake a cake with a political party's logo?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340245]i don't see the distinction. "we're not baking your cake, black" "we're not baking your black cake" "we're not baking your cake, girl" "we're not baking your girly cake" it all comes down to the same reason. [/QUOTE] None of these have to do with a symbol. The article is about a bakery refusing to decorate a cake with a specific symbol, not because of color, race, gender; the symbol. You could use the argument "A man who likes the Washington Redskins was refused a cake when the native American baker refused to bake a Redskins cake". Same principals but now it looks like the person ordering the cake was an asshole.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45340302]Right, but denying something in support of gay rights and stuff is kinda indicative of homophobia in general. It could easily be used against them, unless they can say with absolute certainty that even though they clearly have something wrong with gays, they'd still serve them.[/QUOTE] So unless you always support the LGBT campaign du jour, you're automatically a homophobe and can be taken to court?

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340282]Yes, these people are evidently homophobic[/QUOTE] ok stop right there. they're homophobic. that means they are wrong and should stop being prejudiced assholes and it's why they are being sued for discrimination. you aren't allowed to let your homophobia or whatever shit bigotry you have influence you when you provide a service to the public. i don't see what's hard about this.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45340331]So unless you always support the LGBT campaign du jour, you're automatically a homophobe and can be taken to court?[/QUOTE] It's not about "supporting the LGBT campaign" It's about decorating a cake. Are we really going to pretend it's okay for a company not to decorate a cake with the NAACP logo because they totes don't discriminate against black people, they just don't want to write something that exclusively supports minorities.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45340348]It's not about "supporting the LGBT campaign" It's about decorating a cake. Are we really going to pretend it's okay for a company not to decorate a cake with the NAACP logo because they totes don't discriminate against black people, they just don't want to write something that exclusively supports minorities.[/QUOTE] Believe it or not, people are allowed to have unpopular opinions. It's about decorating a cake with a political statement.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45340331]So unless you always support the LGBT campaign du jour, you're automatically a homophobe and can be taken to court?[/QUOTE] Depends, are you denying LGBT things? Because that seems fairly discriminatory. And if you don't support LGBT rights, then you're probably a homophobe, it's not like sitting on the fence about these issues is a reasonable stance by any stretch. What weird leaps of logic would be required to not be a homophobe, and still not support LGBT stuff?