Christian bakery under fire for not making cake with logo of activist group - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340634]It is about religion and politics, though. My point is that the determining factor in their choosing to reject the order was the presence of the logo, [I]not[/I] the sexuality of the customer.[/QUOTE] you know that the logo is associated with their sexuality right

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340634]It is about religion and politics, though. My point is that the determining factor in their choosing to reject the order was the presence of the logo, [I]not[/I] the sexuality of the customer.[/QUOTE] It clearly wasn't if you actually read though. The [B]guy who made the decision said himself that he is taking a stand against gay marriage with this. [/B]

[QUOTE=Ownederd;45340649]you know that the logo is associated with their sexuality right[/QUOTE] It's not a concrete association, unless you're suggesting that only a gay person could possibly request that logo. [QUOTE=Raidyr;45340650]It clearly wasn't if you actually read though. The [B]guy who made the decision said himself that he is taking a stand against gay marriage with this. [/B][/QUOTE] This is not something I've tried to refute.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340679]This is not something I've tried to refute.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340679]It's not a concrete association, unless you're suggesting that only a gay person could possibly request that logo.[/QUOTE] You're still going on about the logo as if it matters.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340679]It's not a concrete association, unless you're suggesting that only a gay person could possibly request that logo.[/QUOTE] the logo represents lgbt individuals, regardless of who makes the request. if you choose to refuse a logo because it represents certain minorities then yeah there's a problem

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45340650]It clearly wasn't if you actually read though. The [B]guy who made the decision said himself that he is taking a stand against gay marriage with this. [/B][/QUOTE] I'm not sure you're understanding what Sgt-NiallR is saying at all. Yes, the business owner is taking a stand against gay marriage, by refusing to make a cake supporting gay marriage. But unless someone can prove in court that it's because the customers are gay and has nothing to do with the political opinion expressed through the cake, then the owner has the right to refuse service. If a straight couple came in and requested the same cake, he'd probably refuse to make it and probably cite the same reason. The logo matters in that the logo is the direct reason for him to refuse service, and it provides an explanation other than discrimination based on the identity of the customer. Without any way to prove that it's discrimination based on the sexuality of the customer, and not because of the content of the cake, a lawsuit won't stand up in court. [QUOTE=Ownederd;45340725]the logo represents lgbt individuals, regardless of who makes the request. if you choose to refuse a logo because it represents certain minorities then yeah there's a problem[/QUOTE] If a baker doesn't want to make a cake with a Star of David on it it makes him an asshole, but it isn't against the law. If he refuses to serve Jewish customers regardless of what they want baked, then it's discrimination and it's illegal. There's a pretty important distinction between the two. If you own your own business you have the right to discriminate on [I]what[/I] you serve, but not [I]who[/I] you serve it to.

[QUOTE=catbarf;45340753]I'm not sure you're understanding what Sgt-NiallR is saying at all. Yes, the business owner is taking a stand against gay marriage, by refusing to make a cake supporting gay marriage. But unless someone can prove in court that it's because the customers are gay and has nothing to do with the political opinion expressed through the cake, then the owner has the right to refuse service. If a straight couple came in and requested the same cake, he'd probably refuse to make it and probably cite the same reason. The logo matters in that the logo is the direct reason for him to refuse service, and it provides an explanation other than discrimination based on the identity of the customer. Without any way to prove that it's discrimination based on the sexuality of the customer, and not because of the content of the cake, a lawsuit won't stand up in court. If a baker doesn't want to make a cake with a Star of David on it it makes him an asshole, but it isn't against the law. If he refuses to serve Jewish customers regardless of what they want baked, then it's discrimination and it's illegal. There's a pretty important distinction between the two. If you own your own business you have the right to discriminate on [I]what[/I] you serve, but not [I]who[/I] you serve it to.[/QUOTE] Thank you for making my point better than I obviously can.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45340131]If straight customers had asked for the same cake, would they have been turned down? Yes. Therefore it isn't discrimination based on sexuality.[/QUOTE] yes it is, unless they refuse to bake other cakes that have advertisements / political messages to them

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;45341072]yes it is, unless they refuse to bake other cakes that have advertisements / political messages to them[/QUOTE] that doesn't make any fucking sense none of you people are making any fucking sense Private contractors have the right to refuse jobs based on the nature of the job, as long as it's not based on the client. Even if it's for a reason that's stupid and/or petty. You guys are basically saying "the only people that deserve freedoms are people I agree with." Homophobes make me sick, but people who think that people with unpopular beliefs don't deserve the freedoms everyone else gets because "they're bad people" are much more dangerous to America and the free world as a whole.

last time I checked the customer didn't run the business ; sure the bakery are twats for not doing it but it's not like they're being offensive, they have the right to refuse service to anyone

[QUOTE] However, Alliance councillor Andrew Muir - who hosted the civic event for which the cake was ordered - said he fully supported the action taken against the bakery. "Businesses should not be able to pick and choose who they serve," Mr Muir said. [/QUOTE] ^this part really bugs me. Son, there is a difference between a business and a vending machine. Imagine me saying "customers shouldn't have the right to pick and choose who they buy from". ridiculous.

The company even didn't mind the sesame street gang being gay, but they just didn't want to put queer space on a cake. Hell, if i ran a bakery i wouldn't do a queer space cake anyway.

They ordered the cake ffom a christian bakery just to fuck with them. Imagine a situation where some church orders a "god hates fags" cake from a pro-gay rights themed bakery or something. This is childish imo.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;45344027]They ordered the cake ffom a christian bakery just to fuck with them. Imagine a situation where some church orders a "god hates fags" cake from a pro-gay rights themed bakery or something. This is childish imo.[/QUOTE] This is actually why I don't think anyone should be allowed to deny service based on beliefs. Imagine if this was some small town and there were no bakeries around for a hundred miles. Imagine if political candidates couldn't buy advertising space because someone disagreed with what their beliefs were. Businesses should not have the right to judge anyone's beliefs.

[QUOTE=download;45327039]Eh, people have a right to discriminate and refuse service in private business. Go somewhere else, protest them, refuse to do business with them in the future etc if you want.[/QUOTE] A private business would be something like a country club. A bakery is open to the public and has to adhere to anti-discrimination laws.

Isn't this the same reasoning bakeries use when they are requested sexual cakes?

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;45346658]Isn't this the same reasoning bakeries use when they are requested sexual cakes?[/QUOTE] The difference is that in those scenarios, the problem the bakery has isn't a hot issue, which makes it totally different.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;45346658]Isn't this the same reasoning bakeries use when they are requested sexual cakes?[/QUOTE] why would the lgbt flag be as offensive as a phallic symbol

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;45340522]are you fucking serious. i refuse to believe you are this spectacularly thick-headed and missing the point of the issue.[/QUOTE] Holy shit this is so much pot calling the kettle black it is not even funny. Are you not even aware of how obtuse you are being in this thread? They declined to work on the cake because they did not support the message on the cake. They offered a full refund. As NiallR posted time and time again they did not refuse the order because the people who ordered it were gay. A straight couple, a man with his dog or a woman in an open relationship with two imaginary friends could've come in, put down the same order and get refused, there is nothing confusing about this. They are not discriminating against anyone. If there is any evidence of the company baking and selling cakes in support of queerspace or any other LGBT event in the past just because the order was put down by a straight person then by all means run the company to the ground because that is what discrimination fucking is. Otherwise just stop trying to defend a point that has no merit. No one is disagreeing with the fact that the owners are ignorant and hold outdated beliefs, but it is a private company and however idiotic their policies are, they still have the right to refuse the order based on the [I]content of the order[/I] and not on the [I]identity of the people making the order[/I].