America pushes China's button - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Glorbo;40879262]Because if they don't, then your system collapses in on itself. You would need a substantial majority that supports your cause in order to keep an anarchist society operational. Let's give this a 50-50 split. Who do you think would win? The "let's leave everybody alone" group or the "I want to tell everyone what to do" group?[/QUOTE] they don't have to support the cause, they just have to begin to become aware of their own self-interests and be willing to organize on those lines. when communities become organized, the state becomes redundant on its own. anarchism naturally follows an educated and caring population. [editline]2nd June 2013[/editline] anarchism isn't just the idea the government is unnecessary, it's the practice of creating organized communities that make the government unnecessary.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879288]they just have to begin to become aware of their own self-interests and be willing to organize on those lines. [/QUOTE] In other words, they have to agree with you. [QUOTE=yawmwen;40879288]anarchism naturally follows an educated and caring population.[/QUOTE] Yeah well, first you need to have a fully educated and caring population. Good luck with that.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;40879262]Because if they don't, then your system collapses in on itself. You would need a substantial majority that supports your cause in order to keep an anarchist society operational. Let's give this a 50-50 split. Who do you think would win? The "let's leave everybody alone" group or the "I want to tell everyone what to do" group?[/QUOTE] What a strawman is that! If we are to debate, you are to stop attacking false positions we ourselves do not hold. It is true that if a relatively new anarchistic and a capitalistic groups conflicts, the capitalist one will win as it have a lot more experience in crushing competitors, but only if the anarchist didn't organize itself for combat prior.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40878453]um so anarchism would degenerate into the united states?[/QUOTE] Hehe that's funny. Just because you think you're being oppressed because you're extremely spoiled, naive, and ignorant, doesn't mean you're right, no amount of theoretical economic/social systems that will likely never work will change that.

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;40879315] It is true that if a relatively new anarchistic and a capitalistic groups conflicts, the capitalist one will one as it have a lot more experience in crushing competitors, but only if the anarchist didn't organize itself for combat.[/QUOTE] "Organize itself for combat". Aren't you against oppressing different thoughts and ideals?

[QUOTE=Glorbo;40879314]Yeah well, first you need to have a fully educated and caring population. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE] that's the main challenge in the implementation of anarchism. so yea, thanks for the luck.

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879325]Hehe that's funny. Just because you think you're being oppressed because you're extremely spoiled, naive, and ignorant, doesn't mean you're right, no amount of theoretical economic/social systems that will likely never work will change that.[/QUOTE] Thanks for your thoughtful input.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;40879334]"Organize itself for combat". Aren't you against oppressing different thoughts and ideals?[/QUOTE] only a fool cannot differentiate between self-defense and oppression. [editline]2nd June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879325]Hehe that's funny. Just because you think you're being oppressed because you're extremely spoiled, naive, and ignorant, doesn't mean you're right, no amount of theoretical economic/social systems that will likely never work will change that.[/QUOTE] buy. consume. work. die. anyone who does not subscribe to these tenets should be labeled spoiled and naive.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;40879334]"Organize itself for combat". Aren't you against oppressing different thoughts and ideals?[/QUOTE] Only in defence. Violence is morally justified sometimes, don't you agree?

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;40879347]Thanks for your thoughtful input.[/QUOTE] Who are you to criticize my input when most of your contribution to this thread has been regurgitating what others have said, and rating everyone dumbs?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879152]not a technologist one, no. there are indigenous societies but not industrial.[/QUOTE]Yeah, well living in mud huts doesn't really cut it for me. [QUOTE=yawmwen;40879152] so how are you to say how anarchy would develop or degenerate in the real world? [/QUOTE]Basic logic? Your entire system is dependent everyone being perfectly rational and empathetic, and all sharing the exact same ideas about society, and continuing to do so across generations. But people have countless different world views, and nobody is perfectly rational and empathetic, with many lacking in both. It's ridiculous to assume that large groups of individuals acting on their own are going to always going to reach the same conclusions. [QUOTE=yawmwen;40879152] lol that comic proves his point better than it proves yours.[/QUOTE] What ever you say, bud.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879350]buy. consume. work. die. anyone who does not subscribe to these tenets should be labeled spoiled and naive.[/QUOTE] You are spoiled and naive for thinking that that's all there is to life. Buy, consume, work, die? How are those course of events bad at all? I'd love to hear your justification for why life in the USA is intrinsically bad, tell me please what's wrong with buying goods that entertain you more than any natural source ever could. For that matter, what the fuck do you think it'd be in anarchy or communism? Communism: Work, Conform, Die Anarchy: Work, Die Capitalism: Work, Buy, Be Entertained, Take Part in Society, Die. The horror.

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879382]Who are you to criticize my input when most of your contribution to this thread has been regurgitating what others have said, and rating everyone dumbs?[/QUOTE] This is too much. Now you think you are being original in your thoughts? Reality check, what you say have already being said. Statistical truth.

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879422] Communism: Work, Conform, Die Anarchy: Work, Die[/QUOTE] we could probably oversimplify any way of life as "live, work, die" or "live, die" so this whole discussion is silly

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;40879441]This is too much. Now you think you are being original in your thoughts? Reality check, what you say have already being said. Statistical truth.[/QUOTE] Well that's clearly not what I meant, I meant that you're literally copying what people in this thread have already said.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879350] buy. consume. work. die. anyone who does not subscribe to these tenets should be labeled spoiled and naive.[/QUOTE] As opposed to what? Trade oxen for wheat, consume, work, die?

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879422]You are spoiled and naive for thinking that that's all there is to life. Buy, consume, work, die? How are those course of events bad at all? I'd love to hear your justification for why life in the USA is intrinsically bad, tell me please what's wrong with buying goods that entertain you more than any natural source ever could. For that matter, what the fuck do you think it'd be in anarchy or communism? Communism: Work, Conform, Die Anarchy: Work, Die Capitalism: Work, Buy, Be Entertained, Take Part in Society, Die. The horror.[/QUOTE] anarchism makes the claim that there is more to a human's life than simply working to profit another person. there is something intrinsically beautiful about freedom, that there is something empowering about self-managed work. capitalism values you based on what money you can provide to someone else. anarchism values you based on the fact that you are human, and that every human deserves to be in control of his or her destiny.

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879325]Hehe that's funny. Just because you think you're being oppressed because you're extremely spoiled, naive, and ignorant, doesn't mean you're right, no amount of theoretical economic/social systems that will likely never work will change that.[/QUOTE] "Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident that they are acting on their own free will."

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879546]anarchism makes the claim that there is more to a human's life than simply working to profit another person. there is something intrinsically beautiful about freedom, that there is something empowering about self-managed work. capitalism values you based on what money you can provide to someone else. anarchism values you based on the fact that you are human, and that every human deserves to be in control of his or her destiny.[/QUOTE] But life isn't simply working to profit another person, life is working to support yourself and give yourself the things you want, yes you also profit someone else, but that doesn't even really matter, and it takes a special kind of cynic to think that's what life is. Capitalism values you based on the contributions you make to society, that's what every social/economic system will ever do. [editline]2nd June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40879559]"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident that they are acting on their own free will."[/QUOTE] Because accusing people who disagree with you of being brainwashed is completely logical and not ridiculous at all.

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879574]Because accusing people who disagree with you of being brainwashed is completely logical and not ridiculous at all.[/QUOTE] How much straw do you have? I never accused anyone of being brainwashed. Brainwashing is a pretty silly concept. Manipulation, on the other hand, is a very real and powerful thing that has been observed in many societies throughout history.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879546]anarchism makes the claim that there is more to a human's life than simply working to profit another person. there is something intrinsically beautiful about freedom, that there is something empowering about self-managed work. capitalism values you based on what money you can provide to someone else. anarchism values you based on the fact that you are human, and that every human deserves to be in control of his or her destiny.[/QUOTE] yeah thats cool and all except look at where lawlessness got us [t]http://leonardcarillo.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/old-west.jpg[/t] look, the idea of true freedom is cool and all, but you're naive if you actually believe people won't be killing each other and trying to start order (government) in disorder (anarchy). Because that's exactly what Anarchy is, its the lack of a government to stop people from killing each other. this is exactly why I found it hard to disagree with Templars in Assassins Creed. YES, Assassins are the "Good guys", and no they are not anarchists, but there are times where order is also vital in society.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40879345]that's the main challenge in the implementation of anarchism. so yea, thanks for the luck.[/QUOTE] Well what fucking good is a system that doesn't take worst-case scenarios into account? Offering any old solution isn't helpful. Offering solutions that you can realistically implement does. In the end of the day, you have to come up with a system that works in a society wherein a very large portion of the population will always have too much stuff on their hands to give a shit about politics, let alone your version of it. Anarchism, at least the one that you seem to be supporting, starts off with the basic premise that the majority of people care about politics.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40879592]How much straw do you have? I never accused anyone of being brainwashed. Brainwashing is a pretty silly concept. Manipulation, on the other hand, is a very real and powerful thing that has been observed in many societies throughout history.[/QUOTE] Uh they're the exact same thing, don't kid yourself.

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879600]Uh they're the exact same thing, don't kid yourself.[/QUOTE] No they aren't? Pick up a fucking dictionary.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40879612]No they aren't? Pick up a fucking dictionary.[/QUOTE] manipulated past participle, past tense of ma·nip·u·late (Verb) Verb Handle or control (a tool, mechanism, etc.), typically in a skillful manner: "he manipulated the dials". Alter, edit, or move (text or data) on a computer. brainwashed past participle, past tense of brain·wash Verb Make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure. ehh, its closeish

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40879612]No they aren't? Pick up a fucking dictionary.[/QUOTE] i dont see how the kama sutra is relevant here [sub]ill be here all week[/sub]

[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40879574]But life isn't simply working to profit another person, life is working to support yourself and give yourself the things you want, yes you also profit someone else, but that doesn't even really matter, and it takes a special kind of cynic to think that's what life is. Capitalism values you based on the contributions you make to society, that's what every social/economic system will ever do.[/QUOTE] it is under capitalism. if people were valued based on their contributions to society then business owners would get no pay and the employees would get all the pay. that isn't how capitalism works though. if you are not bourgeois, you are pretty much a slave. your housing, food, entertainment, etc. is provided to you by a land owner in exchange for labor.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40877946] i think you might watch too much tv.[/QUOTE] Anarchy is without rulers and without a state. The state keeps order in society and in my view is necessary for order when millions of people are involved.

[QUOTE=The_J_Hat;40870888] At least we don't deny our atrocities.[/QUOTE] not true

I'd love to live in an anarchist / socialist based place* *provided said place is a small town where it'd actually and not a huge country like, America