[QUOTE=Kaabii;42068889]Also this thread was painful to read. Right off the bat with his first posts nigerianprince basically exclaimed to everyone that he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. I don't know why anyone would have "debated" with him for nine whole pages, there's no success to be found arguing against someone who is firmly entrenched in false beliefs like the iPhone having poor internal hardware or OLED displays being better than IPS ones.[/QUOTE]
The reason it was debated for pages is because no one can answer for missing features other than to say "use the cloud!"; if someone had just said "well yes, that is at least some form of shortcoming" then there wouldn't be a 200 page thread.
Xbox one, Origin/SimCity, Diablo 3 and several others have been examples of poorly received DRM. Everyone on here jumped on those and laughed saying "yeah but what if the internet goes down! or what if the servers go down!!!".
Yet I ask the same question regarding an iPhone and get told "yeah but you have internet everywhere, just use the cloud!". Its just a common question and a fairly common solution to a lot of problems to have fairly instantaneous access to your contacts.
I love the cloud, I use gmail, I have Adobe Creative Cloud, I have LastPass, I have Steam (not necessarily the cloud, but whatever), I use online banking etc etc. But it goes down every now and then (that's besides mobile networks being unreliable).
I even received an email from my VPS/cloud provider this morning notifying me of downtime due to maintenance.
The iPhone's hardware may have been flash several years ago, and yes, maybe you find the IPS display to be great--but you cannot argue the fact that its a tiny phone, with comparatively poor screen space. I've used several iPhones, and in comparison to an Android (especially since the iPhone puts almost all interaction on the screen itself) the screen is tiny. It may be high resolution, it might look nice, but its still a tiny display in 2013. A large screen is also something that I bought up in my original post.
Apple's answer to that was to make it like an inch taller (from what I read its because they don't want to make different devices to develop on).
And I'm not "firmly entrenched in false beliefs"; I've had personal experience with Apple products dating back almost 2 decades. I have a fair amount of first hand experience, I've been a die hard Apple fan at one stage too. I did say in my original post that I'd be excited to see what they could bring to the table (just to see what kind of technology is coming out).
Just because I ask an inconvenient question about what happens in a situation where I cannot access the cloud and people's reaction to that is "use the cloud" you cannot claim that I'm "simply another misinformed person". There has to be some level of logic in asking what happens to your data when you don't have access to the cloud, the cloud breaks down, or your identity/Apple account gets stolen.
Thinking that you're going to have full phone coverage, on a working network, with working cloud access 24/7/365 is really nice, and in a lot of countries its something that is an expectation. But there are many, many parts of the world where things are different.
[I]Simply asking about the mobility of a mobile phone[/I] shouldn't be something that causes this much issue.
There surely has to be some level of sensibleness in all mobile phones providing rudimentary access to SIM card contacts or to export them without using some 3rd party app or a computer. And yes, I've used dozens and dozens of other mobile phones that had extreme difficulty in managing contacts over my lifetime and I've lost several contacts as a result of these shortcomings--its why I expect phones nowadays to just have that simple feature.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;42071782]I don't know, I'm certainly no fanboy but all this spergy shit you're crying about doesn't bother a good portion of those 350+ million people.
Generalizing FP also always ends well. ;)[/QUOTE]
Someone makes a complaint about how a group acts, it's suddenly crying!!!
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42071828]Yet I ask the same question regarding an iPhone and get told "yeah but you have internet everywhere, just use the cloud!". Its just a common question and a fairly common solution to a lot of problems to have fairly instantaneous access to your contacts.[/quote]
Aside from the fact that syncing your contacts to the device is a one-time process and it will sync new contacts as it needs to in the future.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42071828]The iPhone's hardware may have been flash several years ago, and yes, maybe you find the IPS display to be great--but you cannot argue the fact that its a tiny phone, with comparatively poor screen space. I've used several iPhones, and in comparison to an Android (especially since the iPhone puts almost all interaction on the screen itself) the screen is tiny. It may be high resolution, it might look nice, but its still a tiny display in 2013. A large screen is also something that I bought up in my original post.[/quote]
Comparatively, yes, but it doesn't bother a lot of people it seems. (It did bother me which is why I went for the Note.)
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42071828]Just because I ask an inconvenient question about what happens in a situation where I cannot access the cloud and people's reaction to that is "use the cloud" you cannot claim that I'm "simply another misinformed person". There has to be some level of logic in asking what happens to your data when you don't have access to the cloud, the cloud breaks down, or your identity/Apple account gets stolen.[/quote]
What sort of situation realistically puts "the cloud" down for so long that it truly ruins your entire smartphone experience? And account credential theft is a risk [I]everywhere.[/I] It's not exclusive to cloud storage, smartphones, or anything else.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42071828]Thinking that you're going to have full phone coverage, on a working network, with working cloud access 24/7/365 is really nice, and in a lot of countries its something that is an expectation. But there are many, many parts of the world where things are different.[/quote]
So then don't buy something that won't work well? Pretty much any first world country, and a lot of third world ones have pretty good uptime. Good enough for a 3 minute, one-time contacts sync.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42071828]There surely has to be some level of sensibleness in all mobile phones providing rudimentary access to SIM card contacts or to export them without using some 3rd party app or a computer. And yes, I've used dozens and dozens of other mobile phones that had extreme difficulty in managing contacts over my lifetime and I've lost several contacts as a result of these shortcomings--its why I expect phones nowadays to just have that simple feature.[/QUOTE]
Only if you're a sperg or a luddite who thinks "the cloud" is some sort of nefarious STD, maybe. It works well enough nowadays that if you lose contacts, it's probably your fault.
[editline]3rd September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Map in a box;42071865]Someone makes a complaint about how a group acts, it's suddenly crying!!![/QUOTE]
Haha sarcastic post because my opinion is terrible!!!
[QUOTE=Protocol7;42071910]Haha sarcastic post because my opinion is terrible!!![/QUOTE]
It's ok, you're not a fanboy remember?
[QUOTE=Protocol7;42071910]What sort of situation realistically puts "the cloud" down for so long that it truly ruins your entire smartphone experience? And account credential theft is a risk [I]everywhere.[/I] It's not exclusive to cloud storage, smartphones, or anything else.
So then don't buy something that won't work well? Pretty much any first world country, and a lot of third world ones have pretty good uptime. Good enough for a 3 minute, one-time contacts sync.
Only if you're a sperg or a luddite who thinks "the cloud" is some sort of nefarious STD, maybe. It works well enough nowadays that if you lose contacts, it's probably your fault.[/QUOTE]
It does work 9 out of 10 times for most people; the cloud is great for that.
But this isn't Apple trying to make things better; Apple made the iPhone from the start without these abilities when there weren't really many cloud services and mobile connectivity wasn't as great as it is today. The original iPhone couldn't even import contacts from a SIM card.
It still stands that when the cloud is down due to whatever reason, telling people to use the cloud to fix the problem is not a solution.
I don't view "the cloud" as something that is inherently bad or something that is inherently unreliable or prone to failure, but like all technology it should be viewed with at least some degree of caution and care. Especially with today's world where hosting services can up and disappear overnight. You really cannot beat the convenience of a sync'd Google or dropbox account (or whatever service), but no provider is by any means completely infallible and immune from having technical issues from time to time.
Even the worlds biggest providers (akamai, google, amazon cloud services) do have occasional downtime and data loss. Providers are also known to arbitrarily shut off accounts for any reason they want (its pretty much in any modern terms of service agreement).
As I've also said, contacts are much more key dependent on what you are doing; I could probably find almost anyone's contact information if I lost it through friends or the internet. That doesn't mean that is a solution for having some form of hard copy of your contacts around that can be read by other devices that aren't an iPhone.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42072807]It does work 9 out of 10 times for most people; the cloud is great for that.
But this isn't Apple trying to make things better; Apple made the iPhone from the start without these abilities when there weren't really many cloud services and mobile connectivity wasn't as great as it is today. The original iPhone couldn't even import contacts from a SIM card.
It still stands that when the cloud is down due to whatever reason, telling people to use the cloud to fix the problem is not a solution.
I don't view "the cloud" as something that is inherently bad or something that is inherently unreliable or prone to failure, but like all technology it should be viewed with at least some degree of caution and care. Especially with today's world where hosting services can up and disappear overnight. You really cannot beat the convenience of a sync'd Google or dropbox account (or whatever service), but no provider is by any means completely infallible and immune from having technical issues from time to time.
Even the worlds biggest providers (akamai, google, amazon cloud services) do have occasional downtime and data loss. Providers are also known to arbitrarily shut off accounts for any reason they want (its pretty much in any modern terms of service agreement).
As I've also said, contacts are much more key dependent on what you are doing; I could probably find almost anyone's contact information if I lost it through friends or the internet. That doesn't mean that is a solution for having some form of hard copy of your contacts around that can be read by other devices that aren't an iPhone.[/QUOTE]
But again, you CAN back them up. It's not as fast and convenient as just dumping them to a simcard since you need a computer, but when it's a one in a million situation why does it need to be?
Unless someone wants to bring up being stuck in the middle of a desert with a broken phone again. I don't know about you, but at that point lost contacts wouldn't exactly be my highest concern.
[QUOTE=RautaPalli;42073138]But again, you CAN back them up. It's not as fast and convenient as just dumping them to a simcard since you need a computer, but when it's a one in a million situation why does it need to be?
Unless someone wants to bring up being stuck in the middle of a desert with a broken phone again. I don't know about you, but at that point lost contacts wouldn't exactly be my highest concern.[/QUOTE]
No you can't really back them up as you want to, you can back them up to what Apple terms "backing up"; which either means using their iCloud shit or backing it up onto your computer.
Even the fucking gmail website lets you have complete freedom with import and export of contacts:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/gsUPBL9.jpg[/IMG]
How could this possibly be such a groundbreaking idea for people to comprehend? How could you possibly not want this feature or think it as being something that is absolutely rudimentary?
Even to send people a list of numerous contacts, you cannot go past the convenience, simplicity and how foolproof exporting to a CSV file or whatever is.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;42068889]It's corning glass, it scratches no more than any other devices, so it's not really a claim to be put against Apple as it is one to be put against glass. If people care so much they should have funded that Ubuntu kickstarter to have a phone with a sapphire display cover.
[/QUOTE]
I know that the iPhone 5 is no more susceptible to scratches than every other phone out there, I just disagree with his stance on the issue. You should expect the manufacturer to make your phone scratch resistant.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42073415]No you can't really back them up as you want to, you can back them up to what Apple terms "backing up"; which either means using their iCloud shit or backing it up onto your computer.
Even the fucking gmail website lets you have complete freedom with import and export of contacts:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/gsUPBL9.jpg[/IMG]
How could this possibly be such a groundbreaking idea for people to comprehend? How could you possibly not want this feature or think it as being something that is absolutely rudimentary?
Even to send people a list of numerous contacts, you cannot go past the convenience, simplicity and how foolproof exporting to a CSV file or whatever is.[/QUOTE]
you can export contacts from icloud tho
[QUOTE=Ezhik;42074452]you can export contacts from icloud tho[/QUOTE]
I want my iPhone contacts on my nexus 7.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/bNXmY6T.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42066642]You do know Apple still markets a $1799 MacBook Pro that only has 4GB of RAM in 2013 yeah?
How exactly is that supposed to support the whole "better apps, faster os" idea at all?[/QUOTE]
you do realize that $1700 dollar computer also has a apple Cinema Display and mouse and keyboard and shit right
Apple may be shit with computers, but the hardware that they make is actually pretty amazing.
[QUOTE=DarkCisco;42074583]you do realize that $1700 dollar computer also has a apple Cinema Display and mouse and keyboard and shit right
Apple may be shit with computers, but the hardware that they make is actually pretty amazing.[/QUOTE]
4GB or RAM in 2013 on a 'pro' computer completely invalidates any other achievement you think Apple has with its shit. 4GB is 4GB.
i have no idea what you guys are arguing about
all i know is you can import sim contacts since iphone 1 and it does so automatically when you insert it in the first time your phone downloads carrier info
and if exporting your contacts via itunes isnt good you can download free apps to do it ive done it before
lmao
^ Exactly. Stupid argument
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;42074490]I want my iPhone contacts on my nexus 7.
[/QUOTE]
[url]https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dmfs.carddav.icloud[/url]
Using the other one for calenders to sync my phone calender to my new nexus 7. Works really well. :)
[QUOTE=thisispain;42074669]i have no idea what you guys are arguing about
all i know is you can import sim contacts since iphone 1 and it does so automatically when you insert it in the first time your phone downloads carrier info
and if exporting your contacts via itunes isnt good you can download free apps to do it ive done it before
lmao[/QUOTE]
Actually there was no way to copy contacts from the sim card to the phone originally, [URL="http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=354599"]this is what a typical apple user used to try and justify that ginormous fucking shortcoming back in 2007[/URL]:
[QUOTE]The iPhone is not engineered like a typical cellphone. The SIM card in esence is uesd simply to authenticate with the AT&T network and not much else. The iPhone has a full blown operating system on it. So the contacts you see on it are stored in a file similar to the storage for Address Book on a desktop class version of the OS.
My suggestion would be to "start fresh". Not sure if your on a Mac or PC, but I would enter your contacts into Outlook (PC) or Address Book (Mac), and use the sync capabilites of the OS and iPhone.
[B]SIM card contacts are [U]not very efficient.[/U] It really is just a card with several hundred cells on it. Each cell contains a piece of info, so one contact could be spread across several cells in order to save all the numbers for that contact.[/B]
iPhone uses the vCard format. It's basically a digital rolodex card, or business card for that matter. All the info for a contact is stored in a single "container", and all those containers together are contained in a file that Address Book or Outlook accesses. You'd be able to enter far more info for each of your contacts with this format, so honestly you'd be wasting your time trying to get nothing but a set of Contact Names and Numbers off your old SIM.[/QUOTE]
So basically your typical Apple user trying to justify a huge shortcoming by claiming the iphone is better than the SIM cards that it still uses today.
Was Apple wrong to not include an import option for the SIM card? Yes, and that is why they added it several versions later.
I still don't understand why you think downloading a 3rd party app is a solution; when I had my early generation iPod I didn't like iTunes so I started using other software--eventually they'd all cause the ipod to pretty much lag/bug because it was poorly designed for anything other than iTunes and it'd require formatting.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42074603]4GB or RAM in 2013 on a 'pro' computer completely invalidates any other achievement you think Apple has with its shit. 4GB is 4GB.[/QUOTE]
Haha that's so wrong I can't even believe what I'm reading. 4GB is 4GB. Yeah uh 4GB goes a lot farther on OSX than Windows, BSD has way less overhead than bloated windows, and OS X is way more optimized for the hardware it runs on. So no, 4GB isn't 4GB when you're accounting for the software a platform uses. Again, just further demonstration you don't know what you're talking about.
Also every Mac has 8GB now except for the mini and the air, neither of which are advertised as professional devices. Even then, read any Anandtech Mac review and try to find complaints about 4GB RAM causing issues. OS X isn't Windows, you won't find any.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42074924]Actually there was no way to copy contacts from the sim card to the phone originally, [URL="http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=354599"]this is what a typical apple user used to try and justify that ginormous fucking shortcoming back in 2007[/URL]:
So basically your typical Apple user trying to justify a huge shortcoming by claiming the iphone is better than the SIM cards that it still uses today.
Was Apple wrong to not include an import option for the SIM card? Yes, and that is why they added it several versions later.[/QUOTE]
okay maybe it didnt have it in 2007
whoops
its 2013 btw now in case you forgot
[QUOTE=Kaabii;42074938]Haha that's so wrong I can't even believe what I'm reading. 4GB is 4GB. Yeah uh 4GB goes a lot farther on OSX than Windows, BSD has way less overhead than bloated windows, and OS X is way more optimized for the hardware it runs on. So no, 4GB isn't 4GB when you're accounting for the software a platform uses. Again, just further demonstration you don't know what you're talking about.
Also every Mac has 8GB now except for the mini and the air, neither of which are advertised as professional devices. Even then, read any Anandtech Mac review and try to find complaints about 4GB RAM causing issues. OS X isn't Windows, you won't find any.[/QUOTE]
Every time I sit down on a mac and open a few browser tabs and some shit the computer grinds to a halt. Click the Apple logo and lo and behold its the famous 4GB of RAM! There is no justification for selling computers in this day and age with that amount of RAM unless its for a fucking pocket calculator or a toaster.
[QUOTE]4GB isn't 4GB when you're accounting for the software a platform uses[/QUOTE]
So basically it runs great with 4GB until you run any software, which would be what exactly? the primary purpose of owning a computer and running an operating system in the first place?
[QUOTE]Also every Mac has 8GB now except for the mini and the air, neither of which are advertised as professional devices.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/952f1ea359052719a4628d1b94156ef9/tumblr_ms0su6YIdX1rkxur6o1_500.jpg[/IMG]
You're seriously sitting there telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;42074976]okay maybe it didnt have it in 2007
whoops
its 2013 btw now in case you forgot[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter to me what date it is; it doesn't change the fact that not including rudimentary SIM card features is a stupid thing to do.
You still can't export contacts to the SIM card on an iPhone in 2013.
Maybe by 2026 people will be able to do that.
Where are you reading that? You clipped which Mac it is out of the picture. I just checked the pages for the pro and iMac and they're all 8GB.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;42075008]Where are you reading that? You clipped which Mac it is out of the picture. I just checked the pages for the pro and iMac and they're all 8GB.[/QUOTE]
Better put that patented pinch to zoom to use and take a closer look at the shit that Apple sells before you start talking like you know what you're on about.
How about you give a link instead of dancing around the question.
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
Haha that's the old MacBook Pro. You're using a deprecated product as evidence.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;42075022]How about you give a link instead of dancing around the question.[/QUOTE]
Use the patented "Cut, Copy and Paste" features to paste this into your preferred search engine:
site:apple.com mac book pro 4GB ram
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kaabii;42075022]Haha that's the old MacBook Pro. You're using a deprecated product as evidence.[/QUOTE]
That's why they still sell them for $2000 a pop then I guess. Makes perfect sense.
I like how your argument has devolved into just jabs at Apple that are entirely unrelated. These arguments are a joke honestly, an absolute mockery of legitimate debate.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42074982]
It doesn't matter to me what date it is; it doesn't change the fact that not including rudimentary SIM card features is a stupid thing to do.
You still can't export contacts to the SIM card on an iPhone in 2013.
Maybe by 2026 people will be able to do that.[/QUOTE]
a SIM card btw cannot store anything more than an all caps entry followed by a phone number so functionally in this day and age its completely deprecated
you really stuck with that for 10 pages, was it really worth it? did you gain anything from that exchange
[QUOTE=Kaabii;42075054]I like how your argument has devolved into just jabs at Apple that are entirely unrelated. You're a joke, honestly, an absolute mockery of legitimate debate.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying that the $2000 MacBook Pro that I'm seeing on the Apple website as of a few minutes ago that comes with 4 GB of RAM is a figment of my imagination then?
I don't understand it. I say the contacts features are lacking, and people try and call me out on it, I provide proof and they still act as if I haven't provided proof.
You tell me "all macs come with 8GB of ram" not more than a few minutes ago; I point you to the Apple website, and now you act like it isn't true.
[B]Fact: Mac still sells computers with 4GB of RAM in 2013. This is inexcusable for any modern computer.[/B]
I don't understand why you think this is a debate either; there is no debate. I've provided irrefutable evidence that this is still something Apple does. So unless you have some ghost of Steve Jobs conspiracy or unless your patented retina display is acting up and you cannot read the content provided on the apple.com website (which as I previously indicated is readily indexed by google.com) then please stop trying to act like you have a point when you don't.
4GB of RAM is ridiculous in 2013.
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;42075072]a SIM card btw cannot store anything more than an all caps entry followed by a phone number so functionally in this day and age its completely deprecated
you really stuck with that for 10 pages, was it really worth it? did you gain anything from that exchange[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is, is that a method of storing/retrieving/backing up names and phone numbers... for a telephone device... is deprecated?
Does that mean a Rolodex is deprecated? business cards are deprecated?
Obviously it doesn't compare to having a huge contact database stored online or on a modern phone, but for key contacts in a squeeze it is still extremely useful.
Even the phone providers usually include their contact numbers (for checking credit etc) on the SIM card itself.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075078]:words::words::words:[/QUOTE]
While I can agree with a lot of the stuff you've said throughout the past 10 pages, you're now just turning this into an autistic personal attack on Apple that's totally meaningless and off topic. I'm not going to say that they do [I]everything[/I] wrong with the iPhone, because they don't. They do [I]some[/I] things wrong, for example the whole contacts import/export to/from the SIM.
Please stay on topic, or stop post.
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;42075157]While I can agree with a lot of the stuff you've said throughout the past 10 pages, you're now just turning this into an autistic personal attack on Apple that's totally meaningless and off topic. I'm not going to say that they do [I]everything[/I] wrong with the iPhone, because they don't. They [I]do[/I] however do [I]some[/I] things wrong, for example the whole contacts import/export to/from the SIM.
Please stay on topic, or stop post.[/QUOTE]
All I did was reply with shit that people were saying that was incorrect; namely that Apple still sells computers with 4GB of ram in 2013 and that there wasn't even a way when the iphone first came out to copy contacts from a SIM card.
I can't help it if the retina display, with all its pixels and beautiful, accurate color rendition cannot pierce the rose-tinted glasses of a delusional fanboy so that they can actually read things that are fact.
All I've seen a lot of people do on this thread is try and make things out to be ok and to try and ignore facts that they've asked for proof of.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075200]All I did was reply with shit that people were saying that was incorrect; namely that Apple still sells computers with 4GB of ram in 2013 and that there wasn't even a way when the iphone first came out to copy contacts from a SIM card.
[/QUOTE]
My PC has 4GB of RAM and works fine. [sp]I know it's not amazing, but it does the job and plays most games.[/sp]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075200]
I can't help it if the retina display, with all its pixels and beautiful, accurate color rendition cannot pierce the rose-tinted glasses of a delusional fanboy so that they can actually read things that are fact.
[/QUOTE]
Uhm, what?
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075200]
All I've seen a lot of people do on this thread is try and make things out to be ok and to try and ignore facts that they've asked for proof of.[/QUOTE]
Show them the proof then. Back up your arguments and stop relying on other people such as myself to be a word-barrier for your argument. I've not seen any references from you (at least not that I can see in the past three or so pages)
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