Only a few years ago, 4GB was considered a large amount. It still is, for general applications. It's only games that really start to take a toll on memory
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;42075261]My PC has 4GB of RAM and works fine. [sp]I know it's not amazing, but it does the job and plays most games.[/sp]
Uhm, what?
Show them the proof then. Back up your arguments and stop relying on other people such as myself to be a word-barrier for your argument. I've not seen any references from you (at least not that I can see in the past three or so pages)[/QUOTE]
Deepest sympathies.
Yes, I don't argue that someone could survive using a computer with 4GB of RAM. But to sell a modern day computer, for a price point well above $1000, with such a limited amount surely has to trigger some sort of alarm signals in most people.
Especially a computer that is marketed towards the "pro" segment of the market; who would probably run software like Photoshop (I can tell you from personal experience that Photoshop will not work properly with that amount of RAM). I can't think of any 'pro' application that would function well with that amount of RAM either.
I proved that there is a 4GB $2000 laptop still (it seemed to be priced $1799 last month) and then got accused of just using deprecated technology to prove a point (that user still did not answer how deprecated technology costs $2000 and is still displayed directly on the macbook pro section)
I also provided various reasons for why having SIM card access for import/export can be crucial, but all I get told is "you can just use the cloud!"
When I ask what happens when the cloud doesn't work, I get told "you can just use the cloud!"
What would you expect me to say to that? I carefully worded a few longer posts about why relying on the cloud 100% isn't a foolproof solution for a lot of people, but all I get in reply from other people is "you can just use the cloud!"
I'm pretty sure if I had no actual valid point to make here then people would've stopped replying, but all I hear on this thread is "you can just use the cloud!"; it really makes me question the propensity of some people given the innate, almost universal hate I have seen from people from all over because of shit like SimCity and the number of huge DRM and data failures. Yeah, its useful, it works 9 times out of 10, but it does have huge faults, it is not infallible.
I would still like to know what Apple users propose people do in the event that the cloud doesn't work, I am sure it will be something along the lines of...
[i]"you can just use the cloud!"[/i]
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=djjkxbox360;42075334]Only a few years ago, 4GB was considered a large amount. It still is, for general applications. It's only games that really start to take a toll on memory[/QUOTE]
All professional media applications (which is what the MacBook Pro is marketed as being for) will struggle to work with 4GB of RAM. That has been the case for several years.
I don't think that many games (except very recent ones) even make use of that much RAM (from what I understand because they're mostly 32 bit this is something of a rarity unless they're made a particular way).
Yeah professional media applications are gonna be RAM hungry. But you were talking about opening a few tabs in a browser. 4GB is more than fine for that
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]Deepest sympathies.
Yes, I don't argue that someone could survive using a computer with 4GB of RAM. But to sell a modern day computer, for a price point well above $1000, with such a limited amount surely has to trigger some sort of alarm signals in most people.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, no modern PC should be marketed at over $1000 with [I]that many gigabytes[/I] of RAM.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
Especially a computer that is marketed towards the "pro" segment of the market; who would probably run software like Photoshop (I can tell you from personal experience that Photoshop will not work properly with that amount of RAM). I can't think of any 'pro' application that would function well with that amount of RAM either.
[/QUOTE]
Then your system must have been pretty shit.
[t]http://puu.sh/4iQnj/d42b00ba34.png[/t]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
I proved that there is a 4GB $2000 laptop still (it seemed to be priced $1799 last month) and then got accused of just using deprecated technology to prove a point (that user still did not answer how deprecated technology costs $2000 and is still displayed directly on the macbook pro section)
[/QUOTE]
Touché.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
I also provided various reasons for why having SIM card access for import/export can be crucial, but all I get told is "you can just use the cloud!"
[/QUOTE]
As I said, I agree with the fact that SIM card access for import/export is crucial.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
When I ask what happens when the cloud doesn't work, I get told "you can just use the cloud!"
What would you expect me to say to that? I carefully worded a few longer posts about why relying on the cloud 100% isn't a foolproof solution for a lot of people, but all I get in reply from other people is "you can just use the cloud!"
[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
I'm pretty sure if I had no actual valid point to make here then people would've stopped replying, but all I hear on this thread is "you can just use the cloud!"; it really makes me question the propensity of some people given the innate, almost universal hate I have seen from people from all over because of shit like SimCity and the number of huge DRM and data failures. Yeah, its useful, it works 9 times out of 10, but it does have huge faults, it is not infallible.
[/QUOTE]
You do have a valid point, and this is one of the things I agree with you on.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
I would still like to know what Apple users propose people do in the event that the cloud doesn't work, I am sure it will be something along the lines of...
[i]"you can just use the cloud!"[/i]
[/QUOTE]
[I]There's an app for that.[/I]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
All professional media applications (which is what the MacBook Pro is marketed as being for) will struggle to work with 4GB of RAM. That has been the case for several years.
[/QUOTE]
[t]http://puu.sh/4iQnj/d42b00ba34.png[/t]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075354]
I don't think that many games (except very recent ones) even make use of that much RAM (from what I understand because they're mostly 32 bit this is something of a rarity unless they're made a particular way).[/QUOTE]
All of the games I play work perfectly fine on this system.
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=djjkxbox360;42075518]Yeah professional media applications are gonna be RAM hungry. But you were talking about opening a few tabs in a browser. 4GB is more than fine for that[/QUOTE]
Even then, Photoshop works perfectly fine for me.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox360;42075518]Yeah professional media applications are gonna be RAM hungry. But you were talking about opening a few tabs in a browser. 4GB is more than fine for that[/QUOTE]
Not that I'm taking any sides, but I hit over 4GB just with chrome:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oZdkNCW.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=rhx123;42075559]Not that I'm taking any sides, but I hit over 4GB just with chrome:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oZdkNCW.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
How many tabs/plugins are you running?
And background processes.
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;42075570]How many tabs/plugins are you running?
And background processes.[/QUOTE]
I just have Adblock, and nothing else was running then.
Probably about 130 tabs or the like.
[QUOTE=rhx123;42075582] about 130 tabs[/QUOTE]
How can you have that many tabs open.
[QUOTE=AzzyMaster;42075588]How can you have that many tabs open.[/QUOTE]
Well when I get so many open that I can't see the titles, I just open a new chrome window and repeat.
I forget bookmarks exist so just leave a tab open if I intend to come back to it later :v:
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;42075520]Even then, Photoshop works perfectly fine for me.[/QUOTE]
For light/general usage I imagine it would probably work, but anything beyond that would probably cause issues depending on the system.
Once you actually use the application with a few tabs and layers/etc it will chew up RAM steadily. You can get away with it depending on how the page file acts; but it will cause issues with system speed.
A 5000x3000 pixel document at 16 bits of color will use 85MB of RAM. That is almost double what the possible document size of a 4GB system is.
If you want to run Photoshop with 4GB of RAM there really is nothing to stop you, but a $2000 laptop marketed towards professional users should run with more RAM than that.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075664]A 5000x3000 pixel document at 16 bits of color will use [I]85MB[/I] of RAM. That is almost double what the possible document size of a 4GB system is.
[/QUOTE]
Hey my win98 system had 128MB RAM.
[QUOTE=rhx123;42075559]Not that I'm taking any sides, but I hit over 4GB just with chrome:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oZdkNCW.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
I have 3 tabs open and chrome://memory claims I'm using just under 1GB. Add in general desktop applications (a few folders open, music playing, background applications) and you'll easily hit 4GB with not much effort.
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=rhx123;42075674]Hey my win98 system had 128MB RAM.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I phrased that poorly; the document size would 85MB, not the RAM usage. Thats just how the document is stored in raw form (iirc its been a while since I've read up on it). It would require several multiples of that amount to work on the document as Photoshop stores layers and multiple undo states.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075681]I have 3 tabs open and chrome://memory claims I'm using just under 1GB. Add in general desktop applications (a few folders open, music playing, background applications) and you'll easily hit 4GB with not much effort.
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
Sorry I phrased that poorly; the document size would 85MB, not the RAM usage. Thats just how the document is stored in raw form (iirc its been a while since I've read up on it). It would require several multiples of that amount to work on the document as Photoshop stores layers and multiple undo states.[/QUOTE]
Web browsers are some of the most resource hogging these days considering some web pages are like applications themselves plus you've got browser extensions. But excluding the web browser/OS, having folders open and general applications (not photoshop/video editors) shouldn't even reach 1gb
[QUOTE=djjkxbox360;42075732]Web browsers are some of the most resource hogging these days considering some web pages are like applications themselves plus you've got browser extensions. But apart from that having folders open, general applications (not photoshop/movie editors) shouldn't even reach 1gb[/QUOTE]
Its not so much that you won't completely use the RAM or not, its that the system will start paging shit around which will cause the system to slow down while everything 'loads'. If you run a really fast SSD you might not notice it as much, but it still happens.
Either way, I like to think, for casual users/gamers, 4GB is mid-range these days. I know people with 2GB of RAM who just use the Internet and office work, and obviously for that, it's fine
[QUOTE=djjkxbox360;42075870]Either way, I like to think, for casual users/gamers, 4GB is mid-range these days. I know people with 2GB of RAM who just use the Internet and office work, and obviously for that, it's fine[/QUOTE]
You're talking about preexisting systems though I'd imagine?
The cheapest ($499) laptop on Lenovo's website still manages 4GB of RAM. Perhaps some of the chromebooks/netbooks have less than 4GB though.
If you were in the market for a new laptop, and spending $2000 what would expect in terms of RAM? I know I'd personally expect 8GB at the very least.
my surface pro has 4gb of ram
I still bought it because it's the only windows laptop to be completely free of any usual bullshit that comes with PCs.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42075891]You're talking about preexisting systems though I'd imagine?
The cheapest ($499) laptop on Lenovo's website still manages 4GB of RAM. Perhaps some of the chromebooks/netbooks have less than 4GB though.
If you were in the market for a new laptop, and spending $2000 what would expect in terms of RAM? I know I'd personally expect 8GB at the very least.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I wholeheartedly agree with you there
[QUOTE=Ezhik;42075961]my surface pro has 4gb of ram
I still bought it because it's the only windows laptop to be completely free of any usual bullshit that comes with PCs.[/QUOTE]
Is it worth it? Hows the battery life?
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;42076039]Is it worth it? Hows the battery life?[/QUOTE]
not as bad as everyone makes it out to be
got 7 hours or so out of it
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
how are you disagreeing with me blackbird how do you know that I did or didn't get 7 hours of battery life??
[QUOTE=Ezhik;42076074]not as bad as everyone makes it out to be
got 7 hours or so out of it
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
how are you disagreeing with me blackbird how do you know that I did or didn't get 7 hours of battery life??[/QUOTE]
Blackbird88 really just disagrees with anything remotely positive about a Microsoft product (or maybe it's just Windows 8? I don't know). I don't really understand why.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;42076074]not as bad as everyone makes it out to be
got 7 hours or so out of it
[editline]4th September 2013[/editline]
how are you disagreeing with me blackbird how do you know that I did or didn't get 7 hours of battery life??[/QUOTE]
Why are you getting so upset over a rating?
What if he has a surface tablet of his own?
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42074603]4GB or RAM in 2013 on a 'pro' computer completely invalidates any other achievement you think Apple has with its shit. 4GB is 4GB.[/QUOTE]
4GB is, surprise, enough for what most people use Macs for. It's not like iPhoto, Safari and the occasional Photoshop window is going to cry on 4GB.
Stop imagining that everyone else in the world has the same expectations of technology as you.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;42077190]4GB is, surprise, enough for what most people use Macs for. It's not like iPhoto, Safari and the occasional Photoshop window is going to cry on 4GB.
Stop imagining that everyone else in the world has the same expectations of technology as you.[/QUOTE]
I guess that's why most users changed to 64 bit operating systems, so they can't address more than 4GB of RAM.
-snip-
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42077379]I guess that's why most users changed to 64 bit operating systems, so they can't address more than 4GB of RAM.[/QUOTE]
Most users did not make the conscious decision to use a 64-bit operating system. If you try to explain the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit architecture to your parents I will bet their eyes will just gloss over.
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;42077135]Why are you getting so upset over a rating?
What if he has a surface tablet of his own?[/QUOTE]
well i'm just interested, because he always rates me - in every tech thread i post in - but not once did i see him respond
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