Rockstar bans FiveM modders - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;48442204]But what the modders did wasn't emulation. They created their own code and their own servers[/QUOTE] I believe what they are saying is that they emulated it in a general definition of the word, not a technical one i.e. they 'emulated' the gameplay style of GTA:O, not the literal servers

I don't think people understand how FiveM works and what it is, it is based on single player entirely. It uses absolutely nothing from GTA:O right now. FiveM is basically what Garry's Mod is to Half Life 2. It's a platform for people to use.

[QUOTE=Velocet;48442237]I don't think people understand how FiveM works and what it is, it is based on single player entirely. It uses absolutely nothing from GTA:O right now. FiveM is basically what Garry's Mod is to Half Life 2. It's a platform for people to use.[/QUOTE] THIS. FiveM is basically what happened when Rockstar didn't allow multiplayer mods in GTAV. Rockstar is banning it because it will NOT include Shark Cards, ergo they won't make money off of the players who are also "Whales".

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;48442369]THIS. FiveM is basically what happened when Rockstar didn't allow multiplayer mods in GTAV. Rockstar is banning it because it will NOT include Shark Cards, ergo they won't make money off of the players who are also "Whales".[/QUOTE] They're banning it because their legal team thought it was a piracy mod, it circumvents Social Club authentication to play online. To them that sounds like GTAO for cracked copies and banned players, which actually is what it's been used for but whatever. Miscommunication like this has happened in the past, like when the FOV mod was bannable but that was fixed. If you start realizing the issue then this can be fixed too. Shark Cards don't earn them that much money.

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;48442573]They're banning it because their legal team thought it was a piracy mod, it circumvents Social Club authentication to play online. To them that sounds like GTAO for cracked copies and banned players, which actually is what it's been used for but whatever. Miscommunication like this has happened in the past, like when the FOV mod was bannable but that was fixed. If you start realizing the issue then this can be fixed too. Shark Cards don't earn them that much money.[/QUOTE] I really hope it's a miscommunication considering the CitizenMP/SAMP/MTA scene is what keeps San Andreas/GTAIV version on PC selling quite consistently.

[QUOTE=JiggleItGood;48436899]who even buys shark cards[/QUOTE] Anyone that was tricked by the scummy marketing tactics of R* during the steam summer sale.

i bought the PC version explicitly because i knew shit like fiveM would be developed similar to how openIV etc followed suit from GTA IV don't shoot yourselves in the foot too hard there rockstar

[QUOTE=krutomisi;48442236]I believe what they are saying is that they emulated it in a general definition of the word, not a technical one i.e. they 'emulated' the gameplay style of GTA:O, not the literal servers[/QUOTE] This would be fair enough if FiveM emulated how GTA:O worked mechanically, like if the FiveM crew were to implement a free-roam based mission hub where you accumulate cash by doing missions to buy new guns, cars, clothes, etc, but they're not. FiveM, from what I've seen, is pretty much just a complete multiplayer sandbox, more of a platform to make more multiplayer mods. What Rockstar is basically saying here is that the only way you're allowed to enjoy GTA V with your friends is by their online service, which I find to be ridiculous.

[QUOTE=man with hat;48439854]Yes, they did. How do you think you work out the internals of client -> server communication? Guessing? Because you're placing blame on Rockstar. In this whole situation, they are a victim. I certainly hope you know what it means to be a victim. Their profits have been damaged as a result of FiveM.[/QUOTE] Remember FiveM does not use the code of the online mode, it uses a custom code inside singleplayer. FiveM is just classic multiplayer with player-hosted servers, not an MMO like GTA:O. [editline]12th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;48442573]They're banning it because their legal team thought it was a piracy mod, it circumvents Social Club authentication to play online. To them that sounds like GTAO for cracked copies and banned players, which actually is what it's been used for but whatever. Miscommunication like this has happened in the past, like when the FOV mod was bannable but that was fixed. If you start realizing the issue then this can be fixed too. Shark Cards don't earn them that much money.[/QUOTE] It does not circumvent any protection, without being logged in to social club you can't play the mod. [editline]12th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MrBunneh;48441664]people aren't paying to suck my dick, and are instead going to cindy down on the corner and paying her to suck their dicks instead. this potential loss in profit is hurting me, so I'm just going to go murder cindy. it's okay, because it's a loss in potential profit :^)[/QUOTE] That's wrong, people are paying to suck your dick and then cindy sucks their dicks for free only if they paid you. As everyone has been saying, FiveM DOES NOT use online p2p code, they use their own code based on citizen in the singleplayer mode.

Just a question about MP, is the multiplayer LAN is fonctionnal for GTA:V I mean from them ? And also can we use trainer and mod ?

[QUOTE=lotus006;48443269]Just a question about MP, is the multiplayer LAN is fonctionnal for GTA:V I mean from them ? And also can we use trainer and mod ?[/QUOTE] I'm the dev of a trainer that I made specifically for Facepunchers and I've either been targeted by Rockstar for a manual ban like the FiveM guys, or they've finally got some sort of automated system. Either way, it's a risk to use a trainer no matter what online, so if you want to risk it, go ahead.

[QUOTE=lotus006;48443269]Just a question about MP, is the multiplayer LAN is fonctionnal for GTA:V I mean from them ? And also can we use trainer and mod ?[/QUOTE] I didn't understand completely what you mean, but FiveM works just like SAMP; so you can play in lan as long as you have an internet connection to login to social club, and you can use mods in servers.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty]I'm the dev of a trainer that I made specifically for Facepunchers and I've either been targeted by Rockstar for a manual ban like the FiveM guys, or they've finally got some sort of automated system. Either way, it's a risk to use a trainer no matter what online, so if you want to risk it, go ahead.[/QUOTE] thnx for the info but i know about GTA:online Official, but i wan meaning of dedicated server from FiveM did you try your trainer on they dedicated server ? [QUOTE=eirexe;48443310]I didn't understand completely what you mean, but FiveM works just like SAMP; so you can play in lan as long as you have an internet connection to login to social club, and you can use mods in servers.[/QUOTE] And if I play on this, can I be ban ? ( I dont want at all to use Official Server... , I just want to use trainer to make fun with only my friends.)

[QUOTE=lotus006;48443373]thnx for the info but i know about GTA:online Official, but i wan meaning of dedicated server from FiveM did you try your trainer on they dedicated server ? And if I play on this, can I be ban ? ( I dont want at all to use Official Server... , I just want to use trainer to make fun with only my friends.)[/QUOTE] I misunderstood what you meant, my bad.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;48443380]I misunderstood what you meant, my bad.[/QUOTE] I mean if you have try your trainer not just on Official server from Rockstar, just to know if your trainer work also on the server from FiveM ?

[QUOTE=lotus006;48443441]I mean if you have try your trainer not just on Official server from Rockstar, just to know if your trainer work also on the server from FiveM ?[/QUOTE] Oh, I understood you the second time. It should work on FiveM servers as long as there's no anti script stuff on it.

Oh and guys, rockstar said that gta v has the same modding policies as GTA IV right? then why is FiveM, a modified version of CitizenMP, a mod for GTA IV that did exactly the same banned?

Insofar as all the talk about ToS/ToU/EULA goes it's totally irrelevant except in the scope for R*'s reasoning - in an end user software environment there are two key issues with determining the degree to which it's legally binding. The first is in cases like Steam where the software is purchased prior to agreeing to any EULA. The same goes for retail. Once you purchase the software, it's yours - 100% your property to do with as you please, including reverse engineering, modding, reselling, whatever you want, so long as you didn't agree not to (Steam's ToS prohibits anything copyright violation-able if memory serves.) When you go to Gamestop and buy a game, you're buying a cardboard box or plastic case with a polymer disc with pits on it inside. This remains the same until you agree to an EULA by /running/ the software and explicitly agreeing to it. The second lies within burden of proof. If R* were to say, take me to court for publishing FiveM, citing the loss of revenue by circumventing the multiplayer, they have absolutely no way to prove that I agreed to any EULA unless their software phones home and verifies it with relevant identifying information. For all that the court knows, I could have a custom software environment that suppresses, denies, declines, or removes the EULA form the environment entirely. This nullifies any argument made in this thread about loss of revenue - whether or not R* loses money over FiveM or not, provable or theoretically, that's their bad for engineering a legally dubious method of protecting their product and profits, not us for doing what we please with something we never agreed to anything for - such as in the case of the subreddit moderator. So really, that only eaves the argument of whether or not R* can terminate those accounts online and not suffer the effects of refunds and other retaliatory actions. The answer, unfortunately, is yes. All agreements and implications aside, GTA Online belongs to Rockstar. It's a private system that they own and operate, and as such, they are legally permitted to deny access to it to anyone for any reason. That reason could be them being mad at people for coming up with a better multiplayer than they did, that reason could be because they don't like your face. They are fully within their right to terminate that service so long as you are not paying for a subscription that guarantees or implies you are paying for exclusive access to it. Ironically, people who purchased shark cards and then got banned are in more of a position to force R* to refund them, since the purchase implies you are exchanging real currency for a feature you can only use online, and therefore would need access to use it. Morally, it's beyond unacceptable. A major corporation is retaliating against a small group because they are perceiving a small portion of their profits [I]might[/I] be jeopardized, after they've already made an enormous profit off of preorders and game sales alone. R* does not stand to suffer a loss because of FiveM. They objectively cannot, FiveM costs them nothing and they've already made a profit. This also nullifies R*'s ability to retaliate against FiveM legally. 'Potential Profits' is complete fallacy in any sort of financial court. So, what can we do? You can attempt refunds en masse, if you like. The results being positive are unlikely at best, and I immediately foresee mass denials from steam, retailers, and R*, justifiably. There may be bad PR for R* because of this, but the reality is this will not impact them in the slightest, at least for a very long time until their next title becomes ready for sale. If paid DLC is released, this has more of a chance at impacting them considering it would be much closer in time to this incident. The reality is, though, that most will have forgiven or forgotten about this long before R*'s next title is out for release. You can boycott R* and improve your videogame buying habits to discourage this behavior in the future. [B]Stop preordering games.[/B] Really, stop. Now. It is one of the most incompetent purchasing habits you'll get into aside from screwing your credit over - you're purchasing something solely based on [I]nothing but its advertising budget[/I]. I don't expect many people will do this simply because of the massive slice of gamers disconnected from social media, current events, and general apathy - It's the Battlefield syndrome. Gamers have a lot more connecting with each other to do if they want to boycott anything. FiveM can continue. This is a really good idea - completing FiveM and publicizing it will have the double whammy effect against R* by both alerting users that R*'s multiplayer service was shitty and broken and causing a massive and sudden drop in online players. R* may ignore that drop, but the reality is that they'll at least have to notice it, and there's a small chance they might actually either realize that their poor performance caused a schism in their userbase, or at least interpret it that they need to step up their game if they wish to remain profitable. There are other, more militant and legally dubious or outright illegal options you can take, such as charging back your retailer as a fraudulent transaction or conducting a (Distributed) Denial of Service attack against R*'s services. This is really the full extent and most immediately effective option against them for unacceptable business practices, [B]but I do not advocate doing them at all.[/B] R* is a major corporation, and if they can't get the proper authorities to hose you for it, they'll hose you themselves with their own legal team. All in all, it's a shitty situation, but realistically nothing can be done about it legally or financially. The only thing one really can do is stay the course. Finish FiveM, get the word out there, and learn from R*'s behavior in your future videogame purchasing habits. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to set up an autism diagnosis appointment with my psych because I just wrote a fucking essay about a fucking videogame and honestly I'm a little scared.

[QUOTE=man with hat;48441606]Lol? Emulation is synonymous with reimplementation. I'm not even sure why you're linking to that page, because it's describing exactly what they're doing.[/QUOTE] No it's not, that's a terrible misconception. Cloud servers are not servers in the sky the same way that FiveM is not a GTA:V server emulator. - Not emulators: [url]http://winehq.org/[/url] [url]https://github.com/opentibia/server[/url] [url]https://openmw.org/en/[/url] - Emulators: [url]http://pcsx2.net/[/url] [url]http://www.fceux.com/web/home.html[/url] [url]https://www.virtualbox.org/[/url] [url]http://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page[/url] In computation, emulators are systems that imititates the behaviour of other with the assistance of software and/or hardware, and it heavily implies guest/host relations with the exception of a few cases where chips are emulated at their API level, in which we usually call it 'high-level emulation'. Reimplementations are a form of recreating the software or hardware from ground up from specifications either gathered from reverse-engineering (clean-room implementations such as Samba are good examples) or from official papers itself, and while they replicate behavior observed on other software, they're not emulators by the technical meaning of it.

[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;48438479]I guarantee you guys will still buy GTA VI. Rockstar's hype machine has you by the balls.[/QUOTE] nah i didnt even buy V

[QUOTE=elowin;48444610]nah i didnt even buy V[/QUOTE]small drop in a large ocean

[QUOTE=elowin;48444610]nah i didnt even buy V[/QUOTE] I bought it three times like the sheeple I am. One for PS3, one for Xbone, and one for PC. My PC version however doesn't work at all.

I knew Cockstar would pull this sort of shit as soon as I became aware of the shart cards, no fun allowed cheats (time limit on godmode) and lack of flying cars. Restrict the base game as much as possible and clamp down on modding in order to milk the sheep. Glad to see people starting to realise that they're as scummy other big players such as EA and Ubisoft, although I suspect you'll all be back to singing their praises as soon as the next major GTA game's announced.

[URL="http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/08/rockstar-has-explained-its-banning-of-gta-v-pc-players-affiliated-with-the-fivem-multiplayer-service/"]it doesn't even make sense lol[/URL]

[QUOTE=SouthParkMGT;48449493][URL="http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/08/rockstar-has-explained-its-banning-of-gta-v-pc-players-affiliated-with-the-fivem-multiplayer-service/"]it doesn't even make sense lol[/URL][/QUOTE] Why did you post kotaku article of what was known on the 1st page?

Plus Kotaku.uk has been defensive in the comments...

As much bullshit as it is, FiveM does technically violate the terms of the EULA Rockstar made for the game. Not in terms of piracy (as FiveM requires access to Social Club), but in terms of bypassing GTA Online and actually using some of GTA Online's native code to achieve this. The latter being true if you actually look at the source code for FiveM (it uses GTA:O's functions, but bypasses the P2P portion with original code). Rockstar is fully within their rights to do this, even though they're pretty damn stupid to do so. I'm sure Rockstar knew this would cause a huge stink, but I bet they're simply relying on their money and influence to be enough of a deterrent to eventually qualm it. Whether or not that will pan out remains to be seen. If there was a way to get a refund though, I would. It's just too bad I'm way outside of Steam's refund window.

I wish I was even surprised, as amazing as their games are they are seriously shitty to their userbase, PC especially. I'm still convinced the whole 'GTA online' rather than traditional servers was done solely to encourage the in game purchases, not to improve gameplay.

[QUOTE=SouthParkMGT;48449493][URL="http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/08/rockstar-has-explained-its-banning-of-gta-v-pc-players-affiliated-with-the-fivem-multiplayer-service/"]it doesn't even make sense lol[/URL][/QUOTE] Typical business assbackwardedness and simplified understanding of people as clients. They could have decided to work in tandem with FiveM's developers. Helped them implement client-side authentication for FiveM. Would have been a win-win situation for everyone. The FiveM dev-team would have been able to finish their project, players would have gotten an actually enjoyable GTAV-online experience. GTAV would have gained significant longevity and sales. Rockstar and T2 would gave profited and gained renown. But instead they decided to go with what amounts to the least effort for them. It's hard to imagine that anyone even buys Shark-cards on PC. PC-gamer's never took kindly to them, as they are shackles left over from consoles. Supporting modding has always been a driver for PC-sales. The word of mouth telling that GTAV on PC has an incredibly expansive multiplayer would definitely driven sales up. And R* decided to drop the ball so hard that there is now a crater on the floor.

[QUOTE=Viper_;48451219]I wish I was even surprised, as amazing as their games are they are seriously shitty to their userbase, PC especially. I'm still convinced the whole 'GTA online' rather than traditional servers was done solely to encourage the in game purchases, not to improve gameplay.[/QUOTE] Rockstar is a business, of course they do what they can to make money.