Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov shot dead in Moscow.
123 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;47227777]There is a leader. Which political activity is only 'Remove Putin".
He doesn't give even a glimpse of what he is going to do after this, how he will fix Russia's problems... and doesn't even define what he mean, when he says "There is everything wrong in current government".
I don't want to give these type of people any real power, as they are not better than Putin.[/QUOTE]
Well, there is everything wrong with your current government. If I were Putin I would try to strike a balance between world domination and economic activity. Actually, they wouldn't be in the current situation if they had of pursued diversification of the Russian economy with the oil wealth that Putin brought Russia.
It's Putin's fault and the people know it. Putin wants dissent to be too scared to protest.
We can argue til the sun goes down about who did it or who told who to do it but I say we wait until a professional investigation by an [I]unbiased[/I] agency-
[quote=Al Jazeera]Russia's Investigative Committee...which reports directly to Putin [has] been put on the case.[/quote]
Oh.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47226969]No, i mean it's just the place. It's literally a bridge that leads toward red square.
If guy was found in his flat dead, then it would make sence, cause then goverment woudl present version with burglars breaking in or something to shift blame.
But this, i mean, literally, the first thought you are thinking of, it is an assasination near[I] friggen Kremlin gates.[/I]
I mean, in my personal opinion i think that people in charge of such things as liquidation of political rivalry at Russia got fuckton of expirience to do better.[/QUOTE]
Or Putin just doesn't give a fuck any more about whether people think it was him or not and would rather kill opposition in a way that creates fear than trying to hide that he did it.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;47227801]Or Putin just doesn't give a fuck any more about whether people think it was him or not and would rather kill opposition in a way that creates fear than trying to hide that he did it.[/QUOTE]
regarding that "fear thing"
had to quote myself
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47227566]To scare WHO? Seriously, if you have no idea about our internal stuff, than please, don't try to come up with such statements just because "I live in my country and i can compare relations between goverment and oppositions" No! Not it our case pal.
To scare opposition means there is reason to ignite fear in them in a first place - is there any opposition force that can take on UR party or goverment whole? NO! They just walk around, proclaming some shit and sometimes getting bunch of nationalists to be beaten up in a clash with police force. They are attention whores and assasination of their fellow by goverment is no reason to fear for them, it's reason to celebrate - "Oh! We are relevant! We are noticed! We are figthing!"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47227828]regarding that "fear thing"
had to quote myself[/QUOTE]
The people who were literally going to protest against Putin tomorrow? A protest of which the guy who was killed was going to be involved with?
It's clearly a threat towards any high profile people who might want to criticise him.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47227566]They are attention whores and assasination of their fellow by goverment is no reason to fear for them, it's reason to celebrate[/QUOTE]
Dude are you for real?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;47227835]The people who were literally going to protest against Putin tomorrow? A protest of which the guy who was killed was going to be involved with?
It's clearly a threat towards any high profile people who might want to criticise him.[/QUOTE]
Okay, now you don't even know what you talking about -
tomorrow opposition protest is not even called "against goverment" it's "Anti Crisis March" in attempt to appeal to wider audience. yes, they still ask for resignation of president and yada yada.
[B]BUT IT'S GOING TO BE IN MARYINO[/B].
this is like, quite fucking far from... pretty much everything in Moscow.
It's partially reason why left wing and few nationalists refused to participate in it in a first place - they deemed it weak move.
Who the fuck gonna want to protest at such place?
[img]http://www.putevoditel-marino.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4-%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%85%D1%834.jpg[/img]
[url]http://imrussia.org/en/news/2181-spring-anti-crisis-march-to-take-place-in-maryino[/url]
Soo again, there is no reason to ignite fear, entire thing was a floop just from how obscure and isolated place of march is going to be.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47227839]Dude are you for real?[/QUOTE]
Yes, my statement might sound obscure to you, citizen of "far more democratic friendly country", but in russia this is how it works. No fairy tale that is - our opposition is really that bad.
Dude, an opposition leader in the fucking Kremlin gets shot dead in a busy place within Moscow and you're debunking every theory because "glorious and masterful Putin could never do such a thing".
We don't know if this was a government orchestrated plan but honestly seeing how Putin has done a lot that has surpassed the West's expectations, I really wouldn't be surprised if he planned this. And you need to stop thinking there's no way in hell his government wouldn't do such a thing
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya"]It's not like the Russian government has killed off people before[/URL]
Is this the official start of Cold War 2.0?
We beat you once and we will happy to do it again Russia.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47227912]Dude, an opposition leader in the fucking Kremlin gets shot dead in a busy place within Moscow and you're debunking every theory because "glorious and masterful Putin could never do such a thing".
We don't know if this was a government orchestrated plan but honestly seeing how Putin has done a lot that has surpassed the West's expectations, I really wouldn't be surprised if he planned this. And you need to stop thinking there's no way in hell his government wouldn't do such a thing[/QUOTE]
Stop comparing foreign policy with internal one, please. You are making Putin Omniscent being, essencially forgetting about fuckton of ministers, advisors and councelors that our goverment is made of. Putin is not whole goverment, believe it or not.
And reason why i am "debunking" is not because i am defending Kremlin or something, no, it's just because when living in Russia you get familiar with how our opposition and goverment works and therefore you know that both are equaly capable of such bullshit. cause they both filled with scumbags.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47227912]Dude, an opposition leader in the fucking Kremlin gets shot dead in a busy place within Moscow and you're debunking every theory because "glorious and masterful Putin could never do such a thing".
We don't know if this was a government orchestrated plan but honestly seeing how Putin has done a lot that has surpassed the West's expectations, I really wouldn't be surprised if he planned this. And you need to stop thinking there's no way in hell his government wouldn't do such a thing[/QUOTE]
Okay, I know Kari has a history of clinging to really dumb positions, but what you just described isn't what's going on in this thread. In the OP, Kari acknowledged that the regime could be responsible, but stated his opinion that it seemed unlikely. People balked, claiming he was defending Putin when in reality we have no proof that it was him. Kari denied trying to "defend" Putin and elaborated that the opposition leader had a number of enemies and potential benefactors for his death.
He's being met with a lot of straw arguments here, hence his complaints about "talk without understanding."
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;47227940]Is this the official start of Cold War 2.0?
We beat you once and we will happy to do it again Russia.[/QUOTE]pretty sure it's already on
[QUOTE=Joazzz;47228015]pretty sure it's already on[/QUOTE]
Yeah but how will history remembered when it started. The UN really hasn't taken any action yet, but this assassination by the Russian government might be the tipping point.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47227884]
Yes, my statement might sound obscure to you, citizen of "far more democratic friendly country", but in russia this is how it works.[/QUOTE]
I gotta say, assuming that everybody who doesn't live in your country doesn't know what is going on is very rude and condescending and it's pretty much what you've been doing this whole thread.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47227314]Well, yes it kinda like this if you want - "Russia is soo bad, even alternative for current goverment is worse than goverment." And it kinda historical too.
Except for Peter I.
[img]http://www.palytra.com/upload/wysiwyg/images/Peter_the_Great.jpg[/img]
That guy rocked big time.[/QUOTE]
Let's just talk about how much of a badass Peter the Great was?
When kids play army today, they play a video game. This guy put together a group of 100 kids who engaged in military exercises.When they got older, they had foreign military officers as their instructors. It was serious shit. One kid actually died during these games.
So Putin is now killing off his opponents? Can't say I'm surprised
Guys, Karimatrix is just trying to stay on Putin's good side.
I mean, this news pretty much shows what happens when you're not :v:
So is the opposition march still going on?
I would imagine more people would have their eyes on it now more than ever now that this has happened.
I'm gonna guess some nationalist scumbag did it.
[QUOTE=soccerskyman;47229119]I'm gonna guess some nationalist scumbag did it.[/QUOTE]
If so watch the guy who did it at the very least not get convicted appropriately for the crime because Nemtsov was part of the anti-putin crowd.
It may be harder to get a solid conviction because it was apparently 4 men who did this, any one can either admit to it or they all can stay quiet.
That is if they even catch these 4 men.
this is VERY obviously a CIA false flag operation to lower putins global reputation. RIP.
Soo A bit of updates -
[quote][url]http://tass.ru/en/russia/780177[/url]
MOSCOW, February 28. /TASS/. Russian opposition and state figure, deputy of a regional legislature, the Yaroslavl city duma, Boris Nemtsov, was shot dead in downtown Moscow overnight to Saturday with four shots from a handgun from a car passing by him, law enforcement agencies said.
According to preliminary data, an unknown assailant made a few shots at Nemtsov when the latter was walking along the Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge.
Russian politician Boris Nemtsov shot and killed in Moscow — Interior agencies
Nemtsov was a co-chair of the RPR-Parnas party. He had held a number of government positions in the 1990s.
[i]Investigation[/i]
Russia’s Investigative Committee has opened a criminal case into the killing under articles 105 (murder) and 222 (illegal arms turnover) of the Russian Criminal Code.
An investigation is underway. An investigative group is working at the site.
Russian Interior Ministry spokeswoman Yelena Alexeyeva said Saturday [B]six bullet cartridges had been discovered at the site where Nemtsov had been killed.
"Six cartridges have been found at the site. Four bullets hit Boris Nemtsov,"[/B] Alexeyeva told journalists.
[i]A site of Boris Nemtsov's murder in downtown Moscow[/i]
[img]http://photocdn2.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20150228/1084753.jpg[/img]
Investigative Committee opens criminal case over deputy Boris Nemtsov's murder
A law enforcement source said [B]the murderer of Nemtsov had been spying on him.[/B]
Alexeyeva said manhunt activities were underway. [B]The attacker escaped inside a white car[/B], whose make is not named in the interests of the investigation.
"Nemtsov was walking with his female acquaintance who had arrived from Ukraine. They were strolling from St. Basil’s Cathedral toward the Bolotnaya Square," she said.
Investigators are currently questioning the woman who was walking side by side with him at the moment of the murder, but her identity is not disclosed in the interests of investigation either.
Senior aide to the head of the Main Investigative Department in Moscow Yulia Ivanova told TASS Investigators are [B]considering all versions when probing into the murder and do not rule out it was a contract killing.[/B]
[i]President Putin, PM Medvedev: reaction[/i]
Russian President Vladimir Putin was "immediately informed of Nemtsov’s murder in Moscow," and "the head of state instructed heads of the Russian Investigative Committee, Interior Ministry and Federal Security Service [FSB] to establish an investigative group and personally control the course of the crime’s investigation," Putin’s spokesman said Saturday.
[B]"Putin noted that the violent murder bears the marks of a contract killing and is purely provocative," [/B]Dmitry Peskov said.
"The Russian president expresses deep condolences to the near and dear of Boris Nemtsov who tragically died," Peskov said.
Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has expressed deep sincere condolences to the near and dear of Nemtsov, Medvedev’s spokeswoman Natalya Timakova said Saturday.
[I]Deputies, politicians to closely follow investigation[/I]
Deputy speaker of the State Duma, the lower house of Russia’s parliament, Sergey Neverov said Saturday lawmakers will thoroughly follow the investigation into the murder of Nemtsov.
"I express condolences to all near and dear of Boris Nemtsov. I knew him personally as deputy prime minister in charge of the fuel and energy sector, as a deputy of the third-convocation State Duma. He was a lawmaker at the Yaroslavl regional duma," Neverov said.
"This was an insolent crime committed in the center of Moscow. And as State Duma lawmakers, we will closely follow the course of the investigation and I don’t doubt the criminals will be established and brought to justice," he said.
Yabloko party leader Sergey Mitrokhin called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to take Nemtsov’s murder under personal control. "This monstrous crime is connected with Boris Nemtsov’s political activity. [B]This is a challenge to the opposition and the country’s leadership[/B]," he said.
Former finance minister Alexey Kudrin said Nemtsov’s murder is a tragedy for Russia. "It should be solved whatever it takes," Kudrin wrote on his Twitter page.
Former chairman of the RPR-Parnas party, one of whose leaders Nemtsov had been, Vladimir Ryzhkov, told TASS that he was shocked at what had happened.
[B]"This is the third case after the murders of Galina Starovoitova and Sergey Yushenkov - the murder of a federal-scale politician,"[/B] he said.
Co-chairman of RPR-Parnas Mikhail Kasyanov said he was also shocked. "Each oppositionist now needs society’s protection," he said.
US President Barack Obama condemned Nemtsov’s murder.
[B]Opposition cancels March 1 event[/B]
Kasyanov told TASS the opposition has canceled a march scheduled for March 1 in southeastern Moscow’s Maryino District over Nemtsov’s death.
[B]"The decision was adopted to cancel the March 1 march and appoint a mourning march in downtown Moscow," Kasyanov said. "We are interacting with the Moscow city hall on the issue."[/B]
[/quote]
About that last part thought - they won't be able to go through mourning march immediatly tomorrow since for that they'd have to apply atleast three days prior to have police establishing route and security, soo it probably going to happen next week.
Also:
[quote]
[url]http://tass.ru/en/boris-nemtsovs-murder-in-moscow/780181[/url]
YAROSLAVL, February 28. /TASS/.
Co-chairman of the RPR-Parnas party and Yaroslavl city duma deputy [B]Boris Nemtsov had been receiving threats in social networks for several months prior to his death[/B], Nemtsov’s assistant Olga Varkhina told TASS on Saturday.
[B]"Boris Efimovich received threats in social networks. A statement for the police was filed after one such episode," Vakhrina said. "It happened at the end of 2014, maybe at the end of autumn, I cannot recall the exact date now,"[/B] she added.
Investigative Committee opens criminal case over deputy Boris Nemtsov's murder
However, she said she does not know about "any direct threats from Yaroslavl residents or Yaroslavl officials." "I am confident there could not have been any," Vakhrina said.
She ruled out the version that Nemtsov’s murder was an act of jealousy. "Boris Efimovich was very diplomatic and tactful. As far as I know, he had wonderful relationship with his children and ex-wives. I saw it for myself more than once. I think that jealousy has absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy," Vakhrina stressed.
"Half of his time was taken by the issues in the Yaroslavl region, another half was dedicated to problems of national level and international affairs, as he was a co-chairman of RPR-Parnas," she said.
"He managed to do everything. Everybody in Yaroslav feels uneasy now. Last night, I received words of support from hundreds of absolutely different people and politicians," Vakhrina added.[/quote]
This thread once again has proven that there are Facepunchers who are anti-Russian shills instead of karimatrix being shill. Thanks kari for this thread, i am now sure in my ignore list.
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47228206]I gotta say, assuming that everybody who doesn't live in your country doesn't know what is going on is very rude and condescending and it's pretty much what you've been doing this whole thread.[/QUOTE]
Cause it's true, since if posters here are soo outraged by consideration of possibility that opposition is capable of such atrocity aswell as the gorverment, means they are not informed or expirienced with opposition at all, and bestow their judgement out of motto "Russian Goverment is Putin, Russian goverments is Evil, everybody who is in opposition is good, putin putin putin".
This is something as if i suddenly pop in one of USA threads regarding dem vs rep arguments and started proclaiming shit - first thing first everyone's reaction would be "Do you even know what you're talking about?" And i would not. I am not informed enough to participate in debate or defend my position. I'd read and comment without accusations.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;47227662]you [U]really[/U] dislike russia don't you :v:[/QUOTE]Hating Putin doesn't mean hating Russia or Russians.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;47229661]Hating Putin doesn't mean hating Russia or Russians.[/QUOTE]
He hates him soo much that he's accusing everyone who does not jump to immediate rambling of accusations toward goverment a "putinist" or some other cult of personality related crap.
I'd say he simply hates people who disagree with him.
Cause [I]hey guys! If you can consider all options rather than go nuts about Putin omniscence presence, you sure must be brainwashed![/I]
Between the "suicide" of our prosecutor and this man... looks like our government isn't much different than Russia's. :/
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47229709]Between the "suicide" of our prosecutor and this man... looks like our government isn't much different than Russia's. :/[/QUOTE]Well, except that Argentina is only willing to say they'll totally annex part of a foreign country illegally. Russia actually had the insanity to do it.
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