Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov shot dead in Moscow.
123 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;47229760]Well, except that Argentina is only willing to say they'll totally annex part of a foreign country illegally. Russia actually had the insanity to do it.[/QUOTE]
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. What are you talking about?
And ofcourse Putin had clearly nothing to do with this !
give me a break
Turns out i was wrong, Moscow mayor allowed for mouring march in center of Moscow instead of Anti Crysis March in Maryino. This is going to be interesting.
[QUOTE=barrab;47229453]this is VERY obviously a CIA false flag operation to lower putins global reputation. RIP.[/QUOTE]
This requires a lot of mental gymnastics.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Melnek;47227622]because it isn't 1945 anymore[/QUOTE]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/AlexanderLitvinenkoHospital.jpg[/img]
The more i think of it, the more version of assasination by business rivals from Yaroslavl is plausible.
It's a perfect set up to steer away attention, most people will see this as political kill, and only few would consider those death threats guy was getting due to his deputy position at Yaroslavl.
Maybe somebody just thought "Hey, if we kill this guy infront of Kremlin, one day before opposition march, who will even think of looking for us at Yaroslavl"?
A typical gang rivalry kill set up as political assasinaiton?
I mean, that would not go really far from messed up crap we had back in nineties.
Oh and Moscow Police department is getting butt raped for such big security fuck up anyway, and they sure deserve this whip.
Literally grasping at any situation that removes blame from the government.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;47230595]Literally grasping at any situation that removes blame from the government.[/QUOTE]
My fucking god are some people bigoted :v:
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47230615]My fucking god are some people bigoted :v:[/QUOTE]
You somehow suck Putin's dick in most Russia threads more than most Russian posters, don't act like you're some sort of neutral voice standing up for poor Kari.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47230615]My fucking god are some people bigoted :v:[/QUOTE]
When I meet Putin supporters, I tend to be more favorable to Russian ones, because at least THEY have an excuse
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;47230595]Literally grasping at any situation that removes blame from the government.[/QUOTE]
I am simply presenting yet another version, or is such a pain for you that not everybody immediatly comes to conclusion you wish for?
Ofcourse going "lol, Putin to blame" is sure easier rather then consider victim's position as deputy and posible criminal ties that usually follow such job in remote towns of Russia.
You must be really proud of your way of thinking, cause you're sure are thinking independantly and open to all sources rather then simply lick a lolipop of a hivemind.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47230718]When I meet Putin supporters, I tend to be more favorable to Russian ones, because at least THEY have an excuse[/QUOTE]
FFS sake, considering all options is[B] NOT[/B] support for Putin, knowing that our opposition is crap is [B]NOT [/B] support for Putin.
Not agreeing with short sighted opinion is [B]NOT[/B] support for Putin.
Stop contributing [B]EVERYTHING [/B]to Putin, our goverment and powers residing in it are a bit dat more complex.
I think people are basing their opinions on the rather well-known fact that for a while now, critics of the russian government have frequently ended up dead. It isn't an unreasonable conclusion to suspect Putin's people having something to do with this considering just how many people (with varying degrees of influence) have been assassinated.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47230480]The more i think of it, the more version of assasination by business rivals from Yaroslavl is plausible.
It's a perfect set up to steer away attention, most people will see this as political kill, and only few would consider those death threats guy was getting due to his deputy position at Yaroslavl.
Maybe somebody just thought "Hey, if we kill this guy infront of Kremlin, one day before opposition march, who will even think of looking for us at Yaroslavl"?
A typical gang rivalry kill set up as political assasinaiton?
I mean, that would not go really far from messed up crap we had back in nineties.
Oh and Moscow Police department is getting butt raped for such big security fuck up anyway, and they sure deserve this whip.[/QUOTE]
And when was the last fucking time someone was assassinated by "rival gang"? It ain't 90s anymore, even the worst mobs today do shit differently. Especially considering how Nemtsov was under huge investigation that showed literally nothing to send to even our court, the-world's-most-humane-court?
There was absolutely no way he was killed without FSB knowing about it in advance, he was under a watchful eye every step he made, everywhere he went. Especially right before the marches and rallies - how else do you think he was arrested, multiple times, just after leaving his fucking home to go there?
Usually when I don't agree with you I'm taking a neutral stance, but what you're saying here is outright delusional.
[QUOTE=Deng;47230465]This requires a lot of mental gymnastics.
[/QUOTE]
Don't you worry, the leader of United Russia said literally just [b]that[/b]. That he was killed to provoke some kind of revolt or some shit.
[QUOTE=gudman;47231015]And when was the last fucking time someone was assassinated by "rival gang"? It ain't 90s anymore, even the worst mobs today do shit differently. Especially considering how Nemtsov was under huge investigation that showed literally nothing to send to even our court, the-world's-most-humane-court?
There was absolutely no way he was killed without FSB knowing about it in advance, he was under a watchful eye every step he made, everywhere he went. Especially right before the marches and rallies - how else do you think he was arrested, multiple times, just after leaving his fucking home to go there?
Usually when I don't agree with you I'm taking a neutral stance, but what you're saying here is outright delusional.[/QUOTE]
It's not like i am excluding possibility that he was taken down by goverment, again, like third time in this thread i have to remind people of that.
I simply presented yet another theory, just like i presented reasoning to why i did not see goverment benefiting from his death at all, or how other presented why entire thing could have been "too bold" to be executed by somebody from opposition.
Cause believe it or not i still not going to throw away my initial term -
stuff was bizarre, could be [B]literally everything[/B]
The amount of surveliance you are crediting him with although is a bit that overstatement. They were more busy catching Navalny in Moscow subway than having a close eye after Nemtsov. Otherwise they would have stoped him from visiting Ukraine in a first place.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47230723]
FFS sake, considering all options is[B] NOT[/B] support for Putin, knowing that our opposition is crap is [B]NOT [/B] support for Putin.
Not agreeing with short sighted opinion is [B]NOT[/B] support for Putin.
Stop contributing [B]EVERYTHING [/B]to Putin, our goverment and powers residing in it are a bit dat more complex.[/QUOTE]
After 24 years of life I developed some kind of ability to connect facts together and propose hypotesis with a certain weight, if you don't mind
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47231247]After 24 years of life I developed some kind of ability to connect facts together and propose hypotesis with a certain weight, if you don't mind[/QUOTE]
And yet when judging internal politics of Russia you bestow too much responsibility for making decisions on one person rather than count in various other political forces that are standing behind him, thus merely contributing to overblown cult of personality myth.
Like, how well are you informed about structure of our goverment? Do you know something about duma, or federal council? Defense ministry? Energetics? Relationship with Gasprom? Political parties and their leaders in duma? How local regions are govern?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47231073]It's not like i am excluding possibility that he was taken down by goverment, again, like third time in this thread i have to remind people of that.
I simply presented yet another theory, just like i presented reasoning to why i did not see goverment benefiting from his death at all, or how other presented why entire thing could have been "too bold" to be executed by somebody from opposition.
Cause believe it or not i still not going to throw away my initial term -
stuff was bizarre, could be [B]literally everything[/B]
The amount of surveliance you are crediting him with although is a bit that overstatement. They were more busy catching Navalny in Moscow subway than having a close eye after Nemtsov. Otherwise they would have stoped him from visiting Ukraine in a first place.[/QUOTE]
You do understand what a damn priority is, do you? Yeah, he [b]could[/b] have been killed by, I don't know, a stray kitten that got into a car and was driving it, while an alien sitting in the back seat accidentally shot Nemtsov while studying the gun someone left in the car. But when it comes to government and murder of oppositional politician, that's first thing that comes to mind and is the most likely thing to happen. Otherwise, no government ever killed anyone, because no court has ever shown that to be the case beyond reasonable doubt. Probably it has something to do with courts being controlled by these governments, but idk, could be anything. Maybe aliens are killing politicians.
Why would they stop him from visiting Ukraine when they could've just shown the footage in the news or one of those "investigative journalism" shows? Which they will no doubt do after he's dead. Just like those times they caught opposition leaders visiting one or the other Embassy - could've stopped them. You're underestimating the government's ability to track your movements and your surroundings. They can do a lot just by simple surveillance, which you won't ever catch. Or maybe you will, but who cares? They [b]are[/b] doing it to foreign ambassadors for chirst's sakes, they obviously do it with opposition.
[QUOTE=gudman;47231408]You do understand what a damn priority is, do you? Yeah, he [b]could[/b] have been killed by, I don't know, a stray kitten that got into a car and was driving it, while an alien sitting in the back seat accidentally shot Nemtsov while studying the gun someone left in the car. But when it comes to government and murder of oppositional politician, that's first thing that comes to mind and is the most likely thing to happen. Otherwise, no government ever killed anyone, because no court has ever shown that to be the case beyond reasonable doubt. Probably it has something to do with courts being controlled by these governments, but idk, could be anything. Maybe aliens are killing politicians.
Why would they stop him from visiting Ukraine when they could've just shown the footage in the news or one of those "investigative journalism" shows? Which they will no doubt do after he's dead. Just like those times they caught opposition leaders visiting one or the other Embassy - could've stopped them. You're underestimating the government's ability to track your movements and your surroundings. They can do a lot just by simple surveillance, which you won't ever catch. Or maybe you will, but who cares? They [b]are[/b] doing it to foreign ambassadors for chirst's sakes, they obviously do it with opposition.[/QUOTE]
What priorities? Do i need ot make up list or something? There are few theories and it's not like i am throwing any away, i look in all of them?.
Do you want me to agree with you? No problem, yes, your argument regarding surveliance does have weight! Does it mean i need to rule out other possibilities? hell no.
Your arguments are really good, not gonna deny that.
Bah, it's impossible to argue with you. Yeah, there certainly are other possibilities. Are they all equally likely? No. But we're not mass media bosses here, we talk about an event and what was the most likely the cause of it.
Most likely one was political murder, as far as my opinion goes. Convenience is fuck all, we don't know what's convenient for people who orchestrated it, we simply don't have enough info. Maybe it was SUPER IMPORTANT to kill him right that moment, or else everything would go down? Or maybe they just decided to move him out of the picture. Or maybe it was gang rivalry. We've got no information that would help us determine what really happened, so we rely on information that we have.
Putin didn't like the dude. FSB didn't like the dude. He was digging and was good at it, he already dug up a lot. Now he's dead. The circumstances are suspicious. That's pretty much it.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47231280]And yet when judging internal politics of Russia you bestow too much responsibility for making decisions on one person rather than count in various other political forces that are standing behind him, thus merely contributing to overblown cult of personality myth.
Like, how well are you informed about structure of our goverment? Do you know something about duma, or federal council? Defense ministry? Energetics? Relationship with Gasprom? Political parties and their leaders in duma? How local regions are govern?[/QUOTE]
I know that you current president has abused any legal mean provided by your costitution to achieve the higest political power either for himself or for people he can control directly because they are a part of his lot
Russia, with Italy being the other major example worldwide, has slowly become an authoritative democracy: a democracy in name only
So the "Great Terror" returns except with less Stalin.
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47232018] a democracy in name only[/QUOTE]
just Italy as another major example? :v:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba]How[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo]about[/url] [url=http://korea-dpr.com/]these[/url] [url=http://english.gov.cn/]guys[/url]? :v:
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47232570]just Italy as another major example? :v:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba]How[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo]about[/url] [url=http://korea-dpr.com/]these[/url] [url=http://english.gov.cn/]guys[/url]? :v:[/QUOTE]
The issues with that countries is that they fancy themselves as democracies, but their laws say actually otherwise
Countries like Italy have instead constitutions that, if applied, would actually make them democracies, but the problem in said countries is that the laws are overstep in a less or more subtle way
You russians need a hitler or ghengis khan esque leader, everybody does every once in a while, or this shit happens :v: :v:
[QUOTE=LVL FACTORY;47232665]You russians need a hitler or ghengis khan esque leader, everybody does every once in a while, or this shit happens :v: :v:[/QUOTE]
We have had a couple. One of them was so great he caused a PTSD and a Stockholm syndrome on a national scale, that's how great that one was. Wasn't really Russian though.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;47228067]Yeah but how will history remembered when it started. The UN really hasn't taken any action yet, but this assassination by the Russian government might be the tipping point.[/QUOTE]
probably at the invasion of ukraine before assassination of a leader is where it will be remembered as having started again
[QUOTE=LVL FACTORY;47232665]You russians need a hitler or ghengis khan esque leader, everybody does every once in a while, or this shit happens :v: :v:[/QUOTE]
The problem with Russian mentality, however, is that they always need a strong ruler to get to something.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;47231460]What priorities? Do i need ot make up list or something? There are few theories and it's not like i am throwing any away, i look in all of them?.
Do you want me to agree with you? No problem, yes, your argument regarding surveliance does have weight! Does it mean i need to rule out other possibilities? hell no.
Your arguments are really good, not gonna deny that.[/QUOTE]
He was assassinated just days before he was going to release his undeniable proof of Russias military presence in the Ukraine.
I'm not at all a conspiracy person, but seriously, this doesn't smell weird to you?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47233692]He was assassinated just days before he was going to release his undeniable proof of Russias military presence in the Ukraine.[/QUOTE]
source?
[url]http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6774976[/url]
There's articles from other sites but it comes down to what Petro Poroshenko said about the issue. There was a mention of it on my local news radio and I don't have the article leading them to that conclusion but you can at least see that this what Petro is saying.
I'll continue to search, but there's some evidence.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
Yeah, so it seems it was something petro said on television.
It's not going to convince anyone who already thinks petro is a liar.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.