[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066127]What has most screen estate: the metro version of IE10 or the desktop version? Yep, that's right, the desktop version. How about scrolling? Zooming? Isn't that infinitely more natural on a touchscreen?
I'm not dodging the question, I'm assuming you're capable of using your brain. Have you seriously never used a touchscreen? Because it sure seems like it.[/QUOTE]
Are [I]you[/I] capable of using your brain? How is using the scroll on my mouse (bear in mind that my hand is already on the mouse) not in any conceivable way better than moving my whole arm to my screen just to scroll something?
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066146]That's a faulty comparison. The Metro version of IE isn't designed to be moved around like a window. It's missing many of the multi-tasking features of it's desktop counterpart.
Touch-screens are better because you can make imperfect analog scrolls or zooms? In more time than it'd take to flick the mouse wheel?
What does a touch-screen do that a keyboard or mouse CANNOT? What does it do better?[/QUOTE]
They're a worthwhile replacement for the shitty trackpads manufacturers cram into laptops, but that's about it. If it isn't a tablet, I'm not particularly interested in a touchscreen.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;39066161]All I can think of is pressure sensitivity but I've yet to see any app that isn't for drawing leverage it in any beneficial manor.[/QUOTE]
Graphics tablets are an exception, for obvious reasons
[QUOTE=Stopper;39066156]Are [I]you[/I] capable of using your brain? How is using the scroll on my mouse (bear in mind that my hand is already on the mouse) not in any conceivable way better than moving my whole arm to my screen just to scroll something?[/QUOTE]
Let's forget he said scrolling and instead focus on zooming.
Why should I take both of my arms (Or two fingers if you want less control) to zoom an image when I can get a digital zoom with no changes in angle (And therefore no ugly artifacting of my images) by simply sliding a bar or scrolling; when my hand is already on the device to do that.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066171]Let's forget he said scrolling and instead focus on zooming.
Why should I take both of my arms (Or two hands if you want less control) to zoom an image when I can get an analog zoom with no changes in angle (And therefore no ugly artifacting of my images) by simply sliding a bar or scrolling; when my hand is already on the device to do that.[/QUOTE]
i'm sorry, but this is a really bad argument
you can pinch zoom with two fingers :v:
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
notched scrollwheels are still far better for doing anything that requires accuracy, though
And even more so, especially when browsing, which is like half of what you do with your PC anyway, you'd have to keep your arm hovering next to your screen every time you need to scroll as opposed to it being relaxed on the mouse. It's just ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;39066172]Even my antiquated Nexus S' display has some basic concept of pressure sensitivity, its just never used.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't work for a touchscreen PC though. Nobody writes or draws against a flat wall, they do it against a table. Unless your monitor or laptop fold to sit flat (Or at a slight, slight angle), it's not going to serve the same purpose as a drawing tablet. That's assuming the pressure sensitivity and accuracy is comparable between a tablet and touch screen (It's usually not).
[QUOTE=Stopper;39066156]Are [I]you[/I] capable of using your brain? How is using the scroll on my mouse (bear in mind that my hand is already on the mouse) not in any conceivable way better than moving my whole arm to my screen just to scroll something?[/QUOTE]
Stop talking about desktops all the time - most machines running Windows 8 will be laptops, not desktops. What would you rather use, a touchpad or a touchscreen? It's like you subjectively pick out part of my argument, when I've already stated that I'm not talking about desktops, and don't really see the point of a touchscreen on one of those. I may not be able to use my brain, but you're apparently incapable of reading.
And I updated my other post 1/4 life after you edited yours. Try reading it.
you can zoom by holding down control and using the scroll wheel
please tell me how this isn't the fastest way to zoom in or out of anything
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;39066183]i'm sorry, but this is a really bad argument
you can pinch zoom with two fingers :v:
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
notched scrollwheels are still far better for doing anything that requires accuracy, though[/QUOTE]
Ah, I wrote that wrong. I meant two fingers, not two hands. You still have to lift an arm up to touch the monitor either way.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066196]Stop talking about desktops all the time - most machines running Windows 8 will be laptops, not desktops. What would you rather use, a touchpad or a touchscreen? It's like you subjectively pick out part of my argument, when I've already stated that I'm not talking about desktops, and don't really see the point of a touchscreen on one of those. I may not be able to use my brain, but you're apparently incapable of reading.
And I updated my other post 1/4 life after you edited yours. Try reading it.[/QUOTE]
On a laptop, definitely a touchpad with a scrolling portion. That way I don't have to carry around a bottle of window cleaner and a towel every time I want to use my laptop
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066196]Stop talking about desktops all the time - most machines running Windows 8 will be laptops, not desktops. What would you rather use, a touchpad or a touchscreen? It's like you subjectively pick out part of my argument, when I've already stated that I'm not talking about desktops, and don't really see the point of a touchscreen on one of those. I may not be able to use my brain, but you're apparently incapable of reading.
And I updated my other post 1/4 life after you edited yours. Try reading it.[/QUOTE]
So the mouse was useless when it was invented? The mouse was first released with an ENTIRE UI designed around it. It had it's purpose set out from day one, and was an immediate improvement.
If you can say the same for touchscreens on a desktop or laptop, I'll be amazed.
We have an entire UI designed around touch-screens in Windows 8, and yet very few people think touch screens are better than KB/Mice, or even a useful extension. It's quicker to navigate those UI's with KB/Mouse, even when they've been oversized and cut down for touch-screen use.
[QUOTE=Coffee;39066200]you can zoom by holding down control and using the scroll wheel
please tell me how this isn't the fastest way to zoom in or out of anything[/QUOTE]
and in most editors, holding space and moving the mouse will drag the view around
far more accurate than any touchscreen
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;39066218]On a laptop, definitely a touchpad with a scrolling portion. That way I don't have to carry around a bottle of window cleaner and a towel every time I want to use my laptop[/QUOTE]
There's actually some laptops with physical scroll wheels. I wish they did that more often.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066226]There's actually some laptops with physical scroll wheels. I wish they did that more often.[/QUOTE]
that actually sounds really useful, I'd love a little notched scrollwhell beside my trackpad on my laptop
oh, and a middle button. I've always missed that
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066196]Stop talking about desktops all the time - most machines running Windows 8 will be laptops, not desktops. What would you rather use, a touchpad or a touchscreen? It's like you subjectively pick out part of my argument, when I've already stated that I'm not talking about desktops, and don't really see the point of a touchscreen on one of those. I may not be able to use my brain, but you're apparently incapable of reading.[/QUOTE]
I'd use a compact fucking mouse. Again, how is holding my arm next to my screen as opposed to... [I]Using the scroll[/I], in any way better?
And yes, on a 20" monitor, I'd use the horrible touchpad that can maneuver the whole screen in one finger stroke as opposed to flicking my arm across the monitor all the time.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;39066238]that actually sounds really useful, I'd love a little notched scrollwhell beside my trackpad on my laptop
oh, and a middle button. I've always missed that[/QUOTE]
Clicking the scroll wheel in on those models is usually the same thing as mouse 3, as you'd expect from normal mice.
It's a hell of a thing.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;39066238]that actually sounds really useful, I'd love a little notched scrollwhell beside my trackpad on my laptop
oh, and a middle button. I've always missed that[/QUOTE]
Isn't pressing both buttons on the trackpad equivalent of the middle mouse button?
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;39066233]You can also just click the scroll wheel inward and drag.[/QUOTE]
That's how it is in Ps and inkscape, I guess that's actually the majority :v:
Too much GIMP
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Stopper;39066254]Isn't pressing both buttons on the trackpad equivalent of the middle mouse button?[/QUOTE]
Yeah but that's just frustrating, since it won't always work
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;39066275]It works in GIMP too, its the only editor I've ever really used.[/QUOTE]
weird, space has only ever worked for me
2.7 or 2.8?
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066219]So the mouse was useless when it was invented? The mouse was first released with an ENTIRE UI designed around it. It had it's purpose set out from day one, and was an immediate improvement.
If you can say the same for touchscreens on a desktop or laptop, I'll be amazed.[/QUOTE]
Well, you're saying Windows 8 is only for touchscreens, so what's your point? And yes, it was useless, try navigating this with a mouse:
[img_thumb]http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120829/n503eadf27d627.jpg[/img_thumb]
Try navigating this with a touchscreen:
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/71/Windows_XP-Desktop.png[/img_thumb]
Neither will really be a pleasure. No hardware is useful in itself, unless the software is there as well.
And don't tell me the mouse was a complete hit when it was invented, 'cause you have nothing to back it up with.
The mouse was patented in 1970, the first mouse-oriented computer was the Xerox Alto (pretty much): [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto[/url]
It sold 2000 units, which isn't impressive even for that time. Ten years later, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS]MS-DOS[/url] still looks like this in many cases: [url]http://www.files32.com/images/active_ntfs_reader_for_dos-62777-scr.gif[/url]
So was the mouse really so omnipresent a few years after its introduction? I may be wrong, but most stuff wouldn't point in that direction.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066307]Well, you're saying Windows 8 is only for touchscreens, so what's your point? And yes, it was useless, try navigating this with a mouse:
[img_thumb]http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120829/n503eadf27d627.jpg[/img_thumb]
Try navigating this with a touchscreen:
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/71/Windows_XP-Desktop.png[/img_thumb]
Neither will really be a pleasure. No hardware is useful in itself, unless the software is there as well.
And don't tell me the mouse was a complete hit when it was invented, 'cause you have nothing to back it up with.
The mouse was patented in 1970, the first mouse-oriented computer was the Xerox Alto (pretty much): [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto[/URL]
It sold 2000 units, which isn't impressive even for that time. Ten years later, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS"]MS-DOS[/URL] still looks like this in many cases: [URL]http://www.files32.com/images/active_ntfs_reader_for_dos-62777-scr.gif[/URL]
So was the mouse really so omnipresent a few years after its introduction? I may be wrong, but most stuff wouldn't point in that direction.[/QUOTE]
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mouse[/URL]
As for your other point about Windows XP:
[img]http://res2.windows.microsoft.com/resbox/en/6.2/2012-Win8GA/2a276423-9dbd-4ac5-89d6-5d74b55f78c1_22.jpg[/img]
Try navigating this with a touch screen.
Now, try it with a mouse and KB.
Which was faster?
[QUOTE=Stopper;39066240]I'd use a compact fucking mouse. Again, how is holding my arm next to my screen as opposed to... [I]Using the scroll[/I], in any way better?
And yes, on a 20" monitor, I'd use the horrible touchpad that can maneuver the whole screen in one finger stroke as opposed to flicking my arm across the monitor all the time.[/QUOTE]
Most laptop screens are 13.3" to 15.6" so once again you're just taking it to extremes instead of providing a real counter-argument. Stop being a tool.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066321][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mouse[/url][/QUOTE]
WOW! 1983 - only 13 years after the patent and only 10 years after the arguably first mouse-oriented computer was introduced! Really showed me there, didn't you?
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066324]Most laptop screens are 13.3" to 15.6" so once again you're just taking it to extremes instead of providing a real counter-argument. Stop being a tool.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
WOW! 1983 - only 13 years after the patent and only 10 years after the arguably first mouse-oriented computer was introduced! Really showed me there, didn't you?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, no shit. How long ago were touch screens patented? How long did it take before they were used?
The Apple Mouse, along with the UI designed for it, was the first time the general public saw a mouse. I think you've run out of arguments and are resorting to spewing any stupid shit you can find. I might as well just stop arguing.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066321][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mouse[/URL]
As for your other point about Windows XP:
[img]http://res2.windows.microsoft.com/resbox/en/6.2/2012-Win8GA/2a276423-9dbd-4ac5-89d6-5d74b55f78c1_22.jpg[/img]
Try navigating this with a touch screen.
Now, try it with a mouse and KB.
Which was faster?[/QUOTE]
That's a stupid question, I've voluntarily been using Windows 8 on both my laptop and desktop since the DP, obviously I'm the wrong person to ask if you want to prove a point.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066324]Most laptop screens are 13.3" to 15.6" so once again you're just taking it to extremes instead of providing a real counter-argument. Stop being a tool.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
WOW! 1983 - only 13 years after the patent and only 10 years after the arguably first mouse-oriented computer was introduced! Really showed me there, didn't you?[/QUOTE]
[B]AGAIN[/B]. How is zooming or scrolling with a touchscreen in any way better than using the scroll wheel?
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39066350]That's a stupid question, I've voluntarily been using Windows 8 on both my laptop and desktop since the DP, obviously I'm the wrong person to ask if you want to prove a point.[/QUOTE]
Why is that a stupid question? Go test it yourself then. Open your favorite metro program with a touch screen only, and then do the same with a mouse and KB. Which let you open it faster?
Surprise Surprise~~
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066347]Yeah, no shit. How long ago were touch screens patented? How long did it take before they were used?
The Apple Mouse, along with the UI designed for it, was the first time the general public saw a mouse.[/QUOTE]
So which part of:
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066219]The mouse was first released with an ENTIRE UI designed around it. It had it's purpose set out from day one, and was an immediate improvement.
[/QUOTE]
Did I miss? You obviously didn't care to check up on anything, and now you're just dismissing it like you never said anything like it.
And just wow:
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39066347]I think you've run out of arguments and are resorting to spewing any stupid shit you can find. I might as well just stop arguing.[/QUOTE]
Thank god, here's hoping Windows 9 will be designed for people who liked Windows 7.
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