[QUOTE=Stopper;39070512]Which is mainly why I said that you're changing between how good a touchpad is to suit your argument and not that you never said one should compliment the other.
And - no they're not (on the bolded part)[/QUOTE]
Most touch pads suck. Sorry, it's the truth, and it's mentioned in most laptop reviews on any site. Sure, there's a few nice ones, but they're few and far between. And whether your point was "mainly" that? I don't care. At the top you fucking listed "Touchscreens are the best", and if that's not putting words in my mouth, I don't know what it is. Even the others are stretched incredibly.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39070459]Why does something have to be better in order to have it?
Stop asking "why" and start asking "why not".[/QUOTE]
Why not let me choose whether or not to be burdened with touch screen interfaces?
Why not disable the interfaces by default when there is no touchscreen connected and revert back to something similar that isn't horrendous?
I could go on.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39070545]WHICH IS WHY THERE SHOULD BE CLEARLY DEFINED OPTIONS IN OPERATING SYSTEMS FOR PERSONAL COMPUTERS AND HYBRIDS/TABLETS. Which is the original fucking point.[/QUOTE]
Well, my original point was that I had no trouble using it with mouse and keyboard. Doesn't mean I wouldn't like a touchscreens as well. And that point was "THE ORIGINAL FUCKING POINT" some 5 pages ago. I don't know why you're raving so much.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39070558]You must have missed the giant outcry at Youtube's new layout and design. And the lack of reaction on Google's part.[/QUOTE]
I'm still using Gmail "classic" (the html only version) since the new one is both sluggish, quite the eyesore and downright counter intuitive.
[editline]wat[/editline]
Meanwhile the (classic) version looks dated, but it's fast and does only what I need it to.
linky: [url]https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html&zy=h[/url]
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39070566]Why not let me choose whether or not to be burdened with touch screen interfaces?
Why not disable the interfaces by default when there is no touchscreen connected and revert back to something similar that isn't horrendous?
I could go on.[/QUOTE]
You have a choice - stay on Windows 7 or just get one the solutions offered by various companies, like stardock or whatever. You could also just use a different OS. I've adapted to Windows 8, though, and I'm not using a touchscreen. And you can find posts by me from ~March 2011 saying "I don't think the Windows 8 UI will work at all. Maybe on a mobile device", so it's clearly possible to have a change of heart.
I would like to edit this just a little bit - I would've like Microsoft to put an option in as well, simply because many people may not be able to adapt to the new interface. Still, I think you're getting way too worked up about it.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39070565]Most touch pads suck. Sorry, it's the truth, and it's mentioned in most laptop reviews on any site. Sure, there's a few nice ones, but they're few and far between. And whether your point was "mainly" that? I don't care. At the top you fucking listed "Touchscreens are the best", and if that's not putting words in my mouth, I don't know what it is. Even the others are stretched incredibly.[/QUOTE]
Explain to me how this works.
A touch pad sucks. So lets ditch it entirely. OK that's reasonable I guess. I'd go for getting one that doesn't suck (my experience with thinkpads has been excellent), but whatever.
Let's replace it with a touchscreen. It's more complicated, and as a result, it's probably going to perform even worse on a shitbox low budget laptop.
Wait...
What?
[QUOTE=acds;39064199]Good, maybe MS will fuck off with their tablet OS bullshit in W9.[/QUOTE]
the old start menu is never coming back dude stop posting stuff like this
[QUOTE=The Baconator;39070648]the old start menu is never coming back dude stop posting stuff like this[/QUOTE]
Well then Microsoft better prepare to pull a Frankenstein.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;39070648]the old start menu is never coming back dude stop posting stuff like this[/QUOTE]
I don't necessarily want it back, but the start screen needs some serious fucking work before it's properly functional.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39070640]Explain to me how this works.
A touch pad sucks. So lets ditch it entirely. OK that's reasonable I guess. I'd go for getting one that doesn't suck (my experience with thinkpads has been excellent), but whatever.
Let's replace it with a touchscreen. It's more complicated, and as a result, it's probably going to perform even worse on a shitbox low budget laptop.
Wait...
What?[/QUOTE]
Explain to me why you're posting like a fucking tool. Is it because you're actually dumb, or can't you make a reasonable argument without putting words in my mouth?
Either way, even touch pads on expensive laptop are bad to some degree. Sure, they may have multitouch, and you can zoom or scroll without it being too terrible, but it's never as smooth as you'd really like. And again - why can't we have both?
Still, don't think I'm proposing putting touchscreens on entry-level laptops. It definitely wouldn't be worth it, but once again you're taking it to extremes to make a point. I probably won't even get a hybrid - you know why? Because they're expensive as fuck, and again I don't [I]need[/I] a touchscreen. But damn if I wouldn't like one on top of it all.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;39070648]the old start menu is never coming back dude stop posting stuff like this[/QUOTE]
They are going to refine the Start Screen based on user feedback, we could very well end up with something similar to the Start Menu, but I don't think we would ever get the menu back. Perhaps it could become a sidebar like thing, rather than the smallish box it used to be.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39070736]Explain to me why you're posting like a fucking tool. Is it because you're actually dumb, or can't you make a reasonable argument without putting words in my mouth?[/QUOTE]
No reason to get ludicrously upset.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39070736]Either way, even touch pads on expensive laptop are bad to some degree. Sure, they may have multitouch, and you can zoom or scroll without it being too terrible, but it's never as smooth as you'd really like.[/QUOTE]
I've covered why this isn't an improvement in my eyes. I still don't see why my argument above isn't valid. Why is a touchscreen going to outperform a touchpad on a comparably priced laptop? Why not just push for a better touchpad? I won't even ask about wacom tablets. There is no substitute for those.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39070736]And again - why can't we have both?[/QUOTE]
A multitude of reasons have already been presented for why someone might not want both. Weight and cost being amongst the chief ones.
If you want one, by all means. It's your money. I don't want a hybrid because it's extra stuff I'm never going to utilize.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39071100]No reason to get ludicrously upset.
I've covered why this isn't an improvement in my eyes. I still don't see why my argument above isn't valid. Why is a touchscreen going to outperform a touchpad on a comparably priced laptop? Why not just push for a better touchpad? I won't even ask about wacom tablets. There is no substitute for those.
A multitude of reasons have already been presented for why someone might not want both. Weight and cost being amongst the chief ones.
If you want one, by all means. It's your money. I don't want a hybrid because it's extra stuff I'm never going to utilize.[/QUOTE]
Weight and cost? Read this review, there's a non-touch version as well.
[url]http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-carbon-touch-review/[/url]
Touch is much easier to get right, it would seem - I can't think of any other reason why every laptop's touch pad isn't spot on at this point. Still the X1 has a nice touch pad in the first place, so you might omit the touchscreen. Still, this was simply about weight and battery life - I've mentioned cost as an issue my self.
And the reason why I get upset is because you've been putting words in my mouth throughout this whole thread. If you can't debate without skewing my viewpoint, it's gonna get tiring.
Your description of your point of view was all over the place, or at least incomplete.
That leads to you assuming people are misrepresenting you, when you have not made yourself clear.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39071398]Your description of your point of view was all over the place, or at least incomplete.
That leads to you assuming people are misrepresenting you, when you have not made yourself clear.[/QUOTE]
You made it sound like I wanted to "ditch touch pads entirely", which is not the case if you read the discussion. You quoted a post that was part of another conversation, you can't expect me to state everything at least one time in each post.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39071527]You made it sound like I wanted to "ditch touch pads entirely", which is not the case if you read the discussion. You quoted a post that was part of another conversation, you can't expect me to state everything at least one time in each post.[/QUOTE]
OK. let's back up.
If cost is not a problem, why aren't you getting a touchpad that actually works?
-Supplemental note: This does not imply you cannot have both, merely that complaining about touchpad quality seems absurd in this context.
If cost is a problem, how is a touch screen going to out perform a touch pad?
-Supplemental question: If cost is a concern, how is having both going to improve your experience?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39071597]OK. let's back up.
If cost is not a problem, why aren't you getting a touchpad that actually works?
-Supplemental note: This does not imply you cannot have both, merely that complaining about touchpad quality seems absurd in this context.
If cost is a problem, how is a touch screen going to out perform a touch pad?
-Supplemental question: If cost is a concern, how is having both going to improve your experience?[/QUOTE]
Not all touch pads suck. Most suck, and then there's a number left that doesn't suck. The funny thing is, that it isn't even always related to price. I sought out my mom's laptop, and got a very decent deal, and the touch pad is actually pretty darn good (though the screen and speakers are definitely the highlight) considering the competition. Still, for me it just doesn't cut it. Why can't I get smooth scrolling? Smooth zooming? It's simply astounding to me that this stuff isn't nailed by every manufacturer already. A hybrid doesn't have these problems. Then there's other usability questions that are rather about what's convenient, than what's working. Still, even the cream of the crop touch pads aren't as good as a touchscreen for some stuff, and that's just how it is for me.
And a touchscreen probably won't outperform a touch pad when it comes to cost. I don't think I've stated that a touchscreen is economically viable for most people, and as I've stated earlier in this thread, I probably won't get one because of this. Still, that's no reason to say people shouldn't have the option, because in my opinion it's definitely the better one.
And having both is gonna improve my experience, because a touchscreen can't do anything a touch pad can, and vice versa. As you've already mentioned, precision work and so on is out of the question with a touchscreen, but even things like navigating the desktop is basically impossible without either a touch pad or a mouse. If I couldn't use desktop applications, I'd be limited to the Windows Store serving, and at that point I might as well get an RT device for a considerably lower amount of money. I want the best of both worlds, not just one of them. A hybrid like the XPS 12 solves that problem in a very unique, and incredibly sexy way. I'd like one of those, though I'll wait for Haswell before doing anything.
I'm using Windows 8 with a keyboard and mouse. It's slightly annoying at times, I've been back to going down the path from the root to the destination folder to find things, but to be fair once found it's fairly easy to pin your stuff to the taskbar.
The restarts annoy me the most as my computer can't apply the updates so they are a big waste of time if automatic and keep telling you to investigate the fact that updates are needed if they're manual.
I don't hate this OS but in the opinion of an ordinary user with minimal technical knowledge (me) it's not one of Microsoft's finest.
[QUOTE=verynicelady;39072050]I'm using Windows 8 with a keyboard and mouse. It's slightly annoying at times, I've been back to going down the path from the root to the destination folder to find things, but to be fair once found it's fairly easy to pin your stuff to the taskbar.
The restarts annoy me the most as my computer can't apply the updates so they are a big waste of time if automatic and keep telling you to investigate the fact that updates are needed if they're manual.
I don't hate this OS but in the opinion of an ordinary user with minimal technical knowledge (me) it's not one of Microsoft's finest.[/QUOTE]
Did you do an upgrade install or what? The desktop part of is precisely the same, and the start screen at least acts the same as the old one (pretty much). Did you come from XP or what?
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39072114]Did you do an upgrade install or what? The desktop part of is precisely the same, and the start screen at least acts the same as the old one (pretty much). Did you come from XP or what?[/QUOTE]
I upgraded from 7
Call me a normal user (i.e. dumb) but I can't find my list of programmes - you know, the one that used to be on the left with 7 and XP?
When you use desktop mode (which I usually do since I don't have touch) there's no list on the left any more and windows key takes you to the home screen which has recently used programmes on but not a "see all programmes" option (as far as I can tell). Maybe I've missed where it is but a good OS should be intuitive even for the less technically able users, surely?
[QUOTE=verynicelady;39072224]I upgraded from 7
Call me a normal user (i.e. dumb) but I can't find my list of programmes - you know, the one that used to be on the left with 7 and XP?
When you use desktop mode (which I usually do since I don't have touch)there's no list on the left any more and windows key takes you to the home screen which has recently used programmes on but not a "see all programmes" option (as far as I can tell). Maybe I've missed where it is but a good OS should be intuitive even for the users, surely?[/QUOTE]
There's an option to show everything, but it defaults to expanded view, and as far as I know cannot be configured to be compressed. Every sub folder and all of its contents are fully visible. You then flip between pages to get to what you want.
(This remains my primary complaint with the start screen.)
This is what I see
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0A48T.jpg[/IMG]
how does this mean all folders are visible? I have to go to My Computer to see them. And I have no option to scroll afaik
It's not a good place for it but right click and press all apps at the bottom right. If I remember right anyway.
iirc its you have to start typing to show all apps
or go to search on the right
(or use start8)
that shows apps but isn't a list of programmes. For example if I didn't have World of Warcraft pinned to the taskbar as far as I know I would have to go to F:/Program Files/World of Warcraft/World of Warcraft Launcher every time to be able to play
I am pretty sure it does show installed programs and also anything that is in the start menu folder so what would have been on the start menu -> all programs.
i feel like windows 7 only just came out still lol
Mm, the all program's thing should list everything installed that would create a start menu entry. Though most things I've installed have automatically placed a button on the main start screen. Even the more out of date programs...
Oh - I can scroll the apps/search page. I didn't see that until now. I guess that's a bit dense of me.
Thanks for the help!
Windows 8 is not worse than vista. People are really butthurt about the new start menu; most of those people haven't even tried it. Somehow W8 having a new start menu is worse than every other flaw in vista combined.
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