Windows 8 proving less popular than Vista - Polidicks

[QUOTE=applejacks;39078940]>not downloading start8.... ohshiggydonatello[/QUOTE] Why should people have to pay $5 for a third party application to fix a broken OS?

I do have it. But such a big flaw shouldn't have to be fixed by a 3rd party application...

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39078618]That is the weakness. The start screen has one design -- Touch screen design. Why is it a bar at the bottom when you right click? Why isn't it instead a context menu that requires less mouse movement? Because it's been designed for a touch screen interface and therefore has all of the downsides of one. The problem is that you end up with something like Windows 8. A dead-in-the-water OS with no clear design goals that doesn't benefit anyone. My only hope is that it remains that way so nobody makes this mistake again.[/QUOTE] But then it's not really touch itself that is the problem? What was your argument then? And personally I don't have a problem using the start screen with mouse and keyboard (and I practically never access all programs), I'd just like to have a touchscreen to navigate with as well. And you can search settings, you'll just have to press the "settings" in search.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39067321]Hey, try it out at least once. Don't necessarily buy the computer, but check it out.[/QUOTE] A little late reply but I have tested Win8, the place I work at have it and it sucks ass. And I've tested Win7, Linux and Vista at the scool I had my IT education and I can honestly say that I still prefer XP.

[QUOTE=Gor Feri;39079367]A little late reply but I have tested Win8, the place I work at have it and it sucks ass. And I've tested Win7, Linux and Vista at the scool I had my IT education and I can honestly say that I still prefer XP.[/QUOTE]I was preferring XP too but when I got a new PC I installed w7 for obvious reasons. It's actually very similar to XP except it can run modern hardware and software. W8 is good but damn I detest the metro start menu and flat theme. The flat theme hurts my eyes, I can't help it.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39079349]But then it's not really touch itself that is the problem? What was your argument then? And personally I don't have a problem using the start screen with mouse and keyboard (and I practically never access all programs), I'd just like to have a touchscreen to navigate with as well. And you can search settings, you'll just have to press the "settings" in search.[/QUOTE] False, you can only search settings given to you by the metro UI. You still cannot search control panel settings. And that [B]is[/B] a problem with touch. Touch screens require changes to the UI to be usable, and those changes take away a keyboard and mouse's usability making for an overall experience that is sub-par in both aspects. Touch screens do not belong anywhere outside of the realm of small devices and tablets (See: toys). No actual work has ever been done on a tablet, and businesses will not adopt such a useless feature, especially after it's been proven to slow down speed and productivity. That is why Windows 8 is a failure. Why you fail to understand this I don't understand.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39079608][B]False, you can only search settings given to you by the metro UI. You still cannot search control panel settings.[/B] And that [B]is[/B] a problem with touch. Touch screens require changes to the UI to be usable, and those changes take away a keyboard and mouse's usability making for an overall experience that is sub-par in both aspects. Touch screens do not belong anywhere outside of the realm of small devices and tablets (See: toys). No actual work has ever been done on a tablet, and businesses will not adopt such a useless feature, especially after it's been proven to slow down speed and productivity. That is why Windows 8 is a failure. Why you fail to understand this I don't understand.[/QUOTE] you lie [t]http://i.imgur.com/cj4gM.png[/t]

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;39079608]False, you can only search settings given to you by the metro UI. You still cannot search control panel settings. And that [B]is[/B] a problem with touch. Touch screens require changes to the UI to be usable, and those changes take away a keyboard and mouse's usability making for an overall experience that is sub-par in both aspects. Touch screens do not belong anywhere outside of the realm of small devices and tablets (See: toys). No actual work has ever been done on a tablet, and businesses will not adopt such a useless feature, especially after it's been proven to slow down speed and productivity. That is why Windows 8 is a failure. Why you fail to understand this I don't understand.[/QUOTE] Now, I'm talking about my own enjoyment, not whether a business will find it useful or not. Is something that isn't productive completely useless? What are you? The grinch? Are games completely useless as well? No, they're pretty fun. Stuff doesn't need to serve a purpose in a professional environment to be "useful". It'd be useful for my little brother, as he much prefers a touchscreen when playing games, and are you going to tell him "No, don't do such a thing, it's wrong and it doesn't belong in a business environment!!!". No, that'd be totally daft. I personally don't find the UI any less usable than that of Windows 7. I can't tell you that your opinion is wrong, but neither is mine. You can try "proving" (by analogies and assumptions) it to me, and I'll just get some charts from Microsoft's Windows 8 blog showing why you're "technically" wrong. Even though it doesn't really matter, because we're not robots and my analogies are as valid as yours. In the end we'll get nowhere. The fact that you're telling me you can't search settings while (as shown by Ezhik) you clearly can, just tells me that you actually have never used it extensively. Install it again and use it for a few weeks, then I'll debate the UI with regards to mouse and keyboard.

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;39078716]Well I don't like the Metro interface, and the absolute biggest reason is how the search works. In W7 I clicked the start button and typed in something to find a file I needed, GPU-Z for example. In W8 I have to move it to the top right, then click search, which fills up the whole screen with the metro background, which is unnecessary for what I want to do. Then the worst part is - searching for it yields nothing. Even when I change the search to 'files' there are no results. For the bigger programs, they come up in the search, but things that exist as standalone executable files that I use a lot (hwinfo, CPU-Z, etc.) don't even show up in the search. I need Start8 for that functionality now. On the bright side, the boot time is 10 seconds with my SSD lol. [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] In general, it just takes more work and sifting through interfaces and pages to get to the same result. [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] However, I do enjoy the aesthetic style of W8 a lot.[/QUOTE] After seeing this post I set about to change what search searches, and found it. [img]http://screencloud.net/img/screenshots/8662988e9618a3b9128f4478653e322f.png[/img] Indexing options!

This could partly be due to the fact that the majority of Windows machines that sit in offices. There are a ton of applications and programs out there that you wouldn't even think existed, that old people are stuck with because they are required by some other machine in some way, or because they don't like the change. Or because the company is too frugal/poor to update X number of computers, and subsequently X number of applications that they depend on. This is also why you can still buy a computer with Windows XP preinstalled. People not updating is a pretty frustrating situation not only for Microsoft, but also for Web Developers.

besides touch screens could be used in a professional environment: in 3d modelling you could rotate the object with touch while editing spreadsheets you could use it to navigate around faster while working in photoshop you could choose tools or change layers faster while programming you could switch between files in your ide faster while working with video you could navigate through the timeline and choose items faster yes touch can't replace keyboards and mice, it shouldn't do that, and it [I]doesn't do that[/I] however they will be everywhere and that's not a bad thing

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39080537]besides touch screens could be used in a professional environment: in 3d modelling you could rotate the object with touch while editing spreadsheets you could use it to navigate around faster while working in photoshop you could choose tools or change layers faster while programming you could switch between files in your ide faster while working with video you could navigate through the timeline and choose items faster yes touch can't replace keyboards and mice, it shouldn't do that, and it [I]doesn't do that[/I] however they will be everywhere and that's not a bad thing[/QUOTE] Not counting navigating spreadsheets, which is basically just saying "scrolling", all of those things require [I]precision[/I]. It won't be faster. It'll be clunky and slow.

[QUOTE=Stopper;39080654]Not counting navigating spreadsheets, which is basically just saying "scrolling", all of those things require [I]precision[/I]. It won't be faster. It'll be clunky and slow.[/QUOTE] Well, if you have a mouse and a keyboard right by you, I don't see the problem combining them?

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39080537]besides touch screens could be used in a professional environment: in 3d modelling you could rotate the object with touch while editing spreadsheets you could use it to navigate around faster while working in photoshop you could choose tools or change layers faster while programming you could switch between files in your ide faster while working with video you could navigate through the timeline and choose items faster yes touch can't replace keyboards and mice, it shouldn't do that, and it [I]doesn't do that[/I] however they will be everywhere and that's not a bad thing[/QUOTE] Every one of these requires both hands on keyboard or keyboard and mouse. When working you also do not want to smudge your screen by touching it. Especially when working on graphics stuff like 3d or video/pictures.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;39080713]Every one of these requires both hands on keyboard or keyboard and mouse. When working you also do not want to smudge your screen by touching it. Especially when working on graphics stuff like 3d or video/pictures.[/QUOTE] well maybe if you wash them sometimes there won't be any smudges

[QUOTE=The golden;39080673]I got the chance to try Win8 for a brief period of time yesterday. First impressions are that it's exactly the same as Win7 but with a tablet UI that replaces the start menu. The new UI elements still had the same functionality as what was in Win7 but they way it's layed out means it just takes so many more clicks or mouse movements to do something. In comparison to Win7's startmenu, opening a program or control panel in Metro is a really contrived pain in the ass. There is literally no reason for that UI to exist on desktop PC's and yet they shoehorned it in anyway. Christ, I was even seeing tooltips saying "Tap X to do Y". Your average PC user isn't going to be able to notice the performance increase from Win7 so as far as they're concerned 8 is just 7 with a shittier UI. Of course its ratings are going to tank worse than Vista.[/QUOTE] "Brief period of time" - it takes time to learn to use a new UI efficiently. I'm able to use the new UI as fast as the old one, and I really don't think there's anything physically differentiating me from you. It's like saying OSX is a shit OS because I can't figure it out how to use it. If I actually used it as my main OS, I'd probably have no problems.

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39080725]well maybe if you wash them sometimes there won't be any smudges[/QUOTE] If it's touched, it will have smudges. You can wash your hands 24/7 but it won't change anything. Skin has oils on them which will smudge the glossy screen in no time.

[QUOTE=Stopper;39080654]Not counting navigating spreadsheets, which is basically just saying "scrolling", all of those things require [I]precision[/I]. It won't be faster. It'll be clunky and slow.[/QUOTE] touchscreens can do precision you can adjust some sliders with precision in ios if you pull them down same with all those things i listed 1 finger touch - normal action 2 fingers precise action besides, touch screens are not replacing anything you can use now, they'll go with what you have already, and i really don't see the problem with that [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;39080767]If it's touched, it will have smudges. You can wash your hands 24/7 but it won't change anything. Skin has oils on them which will smudge the glossy screen in no time.[/QUOTE] except that i have never ever ever ever used a touchscreen that had any visible smudges when the screen was on

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39080770] except that i have never ever ever ever used a touchscreen that had any visible smudges when the screen was on[/QUOTE]Alright, that's impressive

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39080770]touchscreens can do precision you can adjust some sliders with precision in ios if you pull them down same with all those things i listed 1 finger touch - normal action 2 fingers precise action besides, [B]touch screens are not replacing anything you can use now, they'll go with what you have already, and i really don't see the problem with that[/B] [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] except that i have never ever ever ever used a touchscreen that had any visible smudges when the screen was on[/QUOTE] The problem (which is what the original argument was about) is that while not everyone has a touch screen, Microsoft made an OS which treats everyone as they do.

[QUOTE=Stopper;39080954]The problem (which is what the original argument was about) is that while not everyone has a touch screen, Microsoft made an OS which treats everyone as they do.[/QUOTE] i still don't feel like that though i use metro with no touchscreens and i like it just fine

I prefer the new start menu. faster than the old ones. I no longer have to do all programs/auto desk/3dsmax, just have to click start then click 3dsmax.

[QUOTE=TonyP;39081152]I prefer the new start menu. faster than the old ones. I no longer have to do all programs/auto desk/3dsmax, just have to click start then click 3dsmax.[/QUOTE] Wait, you didn't know you could pin stuff to old start menu?

I don't mind 8. It was a pleasant change from XP that I've been using since its release. It could've been worse, like Win98 to ME or XP to Vista. At least it's stable, I couldn't care less about the visuals.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;39081172]Wait, you didn't know you could pin stuff to old start menu?[/QUOTE] Yes I did but I don't want 25 things all in a tiny list like it would have to be in the old start menu.

[QUOTE=The golden;39081185]Win7 and 8 let you pin stuff to the taskbar too.[/QUOTE] Really, I've always been aware of this, but it's much easier to organize stuff properly in Windows 8. Sure, you could pin all your programs on there, but it's really not practical in Windows 7.

Had bought a fresh new computer with Windows 8 in it... They don't sell computers with Windows 7 anymore. That's how they get their sales. I'm not a HUGE fan of Windows 8... But, it isn't too terribly bad. Some of the stuff is very useful when you do more than one thing at a time and its not AS simple as finding something on Windows 8 as it is for 7, but its still organized as hell when you get used to it. There are still probably things I don't know about windows 8.

[QUOTE=TonyP;39081298]Yes I did but I don't want 25 things all in a tiny list like it would have to be in the old start menu.[/QUOTE] And this is the joy of the Start Screen. It gives you a lot more real estate to play with. Rather than having a stacked list of items, all somewhere around 50px tall, you have a grid of items, all somewhere around 80px squared. You can fit a lot more on the screen in a grid formation, and it can look a lot neater, you just need to move things around to your own requirements. MS have statistics for this, they have actually researched how to implement the Start screen the best, here is a list of blog posts from the Windows team with their research and results; [B]How the start menu is used - [/B][url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-start-menu.aspx[/url] This one basically describes how the Start menu has been used based on User Experience feedback. [B]How the start screen improves on start menu features - [/B][url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/04/designing-the-start-screen.aspx[/url] This one describes how the Start screen improves on certain features, like searching and listing items, to make the menu more usable. [B]A more in depth look at Search - [/B][url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/18/designing-search-for-the-start-screen.aspx[/url] This one explains exactly how and why Search in Windows 8 is objectively better than Windows 7. It's a lot faster, has a lot more options, it's centralised. Just read the damn thing. [B]Answers to questions about the Start Screen - [/B][url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx[/url] This one covers things like the number of icons on the screen and shit I mentioned. Read this one fo' sho'. Everything MS did in Windows 8 is based on feedback from their automated Windows Feedback programme, and how the users directly critiqued Windows 7. They didn't make these changes on a whim, you're a retard if you believe that. Everything was designed with a purpose.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;39082427]And this is the joy of the Start Screen. It gives you a lot more real estate to play with. Rather than having a stacked list of items, all somewhere around 50px tall, you have a grid of items, all somewhere around 80px squared. You can fit a lot more on the screen in a grid formation, and it can look a lot neater, you just need to move things around to your own requirements. [/QUOTE] While I agree that it's useful for some, I still think it should be optional for people who do not use it like that. Most of my metro real estate would be empty as I have 4 apps pinned to start menu in total.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;39083266]While I agree that it's useful for some, I still think it should be optional for people who do not use it like that. Most of my metro real estate would be empty as I have 4 apps pinned to start menu in total.[/QUOTE] I barely pin anything to my start menu on Windows 7, but when I started using Windows 8, I did start pinning things to the start screen more. Due to the change in navigation, it made more sense to start using it more.