[QUOTE=Hubsha;39090098]I hated it.
Then I actually tried it.
Now I enjoy it.
Sleeker, more minimalistic.
For all the people who complain about the Metro UI, you never ever see it.
It serves the same purpose as the old start menu. You never have it open for more than 5 seconds.
You still spend 99% of your time in your desktop.
People hate change, and this is change.[/QUOTE]
I hated it
Then i tried it
I still hated it
A month later i tried to suck it up and tried it again
I still hated it
Why do we need a big change? Later on a change like this would make sense when touch screens are a bit more common. Using win8 just made me feel like my desktop is a huge phone with no touchscreen.
For me there is no reason to go from win7 to win8
I'm probably gonna upgrade this week because I can get Windows 8 Pro for $15 USD. I enjoyed playing with the previews, so I'm looking forward to it.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;39093128]Considering your argument is "I don't like it so everyone who does is retarded," maturity went out the window a long time ago.
It's kind of weird how people who do like Metro can accept the fact that people don't like it, but it seems like the majority of people who don't like Metro go out of their way to prosecute people who do.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pubichair;39093145]It's like an analogy for homosexuality.[/QUOTE]
Because people will alway have more experience and knowledge about something when they
participate in it and [B]knowledge is the foundation of tolerance[/B].
[QUOTE=V3cT0r;39093383]Because people will alway have more experience and knowledge about something when they
participate as when they would not and [B]knowledge is the foundation of tolerance[/B].[/QUOTE]
Are you suggesting homophobes try homosexual sex to see if they like it?
No stop, this is offtopic as shit.
I like a hierarchical layout. 8 is not this. 7 is. Therefore I like 7 better.
Well thats a darn shame. I quite like Win8.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39092645][B]Nobody wants Metro removed! We just want a choice between the traditional and new styles.[/B] Kind of like XP had a classic and new start menu, with the classic one being the same as in 98 and the new one being like in Vista.[/QUOTE]
This can't be emphasized hard enough.
But [I]NOOO[/I], Microsoft knows better than [I]ALL[/I] its users :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Van-man;39095710]This can't be emphasized hard enough.
But [I]NOOO[/I], Microsoft knows better than all it's users :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
If there's anything I've been taught from various software engineering modules and research in my own time, yeah, MS do know better. The user likes to think they know what they want, when in reality, most users have no idea what they actually want until something is tested. A user can request features in their program like "I want a spinning dick on startup!!!", but it is the job of the engineer to say "well, a spinning dick on startup is all well and good, but try this, it's a spinning dick on exit instead". The user will of course, be a bit apprehensive at first, it isn't what they requested after all, but if it actually functions better (which the start screen does in many ways), the user can eventually work out, yes, the engineer knows what they actually want.
Spinning dicks isn't the greatest analogy, but it gets the point across. Did you even read any of those blog links I posted a page or so back? Because that was MS explaining exactly what I just did, but with better reasoning.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;39095786]If there's anything I've been taught from various software engineering modules and research in my own time, yeah, MS do know better. The user likes to think they know what they want, when in reality, most users have no idea what they actually want until something is tested. A user can request features in their program like "I want a spinning dick on startup!!!", but it is the job of the engineer to say "well, a spinning dick on startup is all well and good, but try this, it's a spinning dick on exit instead". The user will of course, be a bit apprehensive at first, it isn't what they requested after all, but if it actually functions better (which the start screen does in many ways), the user can eventually work out, yes, the engineer knows what they actually want.
Spinning dicks isn't the greatest analogy, but it gets the point across. Did you even read any of those blog links I posted a page or so back? Because that was MS explaining exactly what I just did, but with better reasoning.[/QUOTE]
Those blogs are only for users in general.
It doesn't account for professionals at all.
Microsoft is getting a lot of flak for neglecting them, and it's well deserved since they don't offer "metro" as a option along with a slightly polished win7 interface.
The solution is that simple, and they could've easily have avoided a massive amount of bad press, but nope, It's Microsoft's way, or the highway [SUP][SUP]to Windows 7[/SUP][/SUP]
[QUOTE=Van-man;39095828]Those blogs are only for users in general.
It doesn't account for professionals at all.
Microsoft is getting a lot of flak for neglecting them, and it's well deserved since they don't offer "metro" as a option along with a slightly polished win7 interface.
The solution is that simple, and they could've easily have avoided a massive amount of bad press, but nope, It's Microsoft's way, or the highway [SUP][SUP]to Windows 7[/SUP][/SUP][/QUOTE]
It'd be nice if there was some option for a non-fullscreen menu, like I said, some kind of sidebar looking thing maybe, like the charms bar on the right. That way they can actually improve the amount of shit shown to the user, and still keep with their metro design nicely. But I can't ever see them going back to the old start menu any time soon.
And there were a few questions from professional users in the blogs, not many, but some. MS responded to them with more detailed explanations. But seriously, answer me this, how does a menu you use for perhaps, 2, maybe 3? seconds at a time to quickly type the name of a program in and launch it, cause you more problems than a pop-up menu that does the same thing? I mean, it's hardly on the screen for any time at all if you use it right, it's not going to "break workflow" when you can't use it and a program at the same time (much like the start menu), so where are the problems?
I installed Windows 8 x64 enterprise eval a few days ago. Its great, it found all of my drivers immediately including the internet card one (how to get drivers without internet driver problem is solved now).
Only annoyance is the charms bar on my dual monitor setup: its damn hard to hit corner of the screen without going over. Works great on single monitor but not double.
The start menu isn't honestly [B]that [/B]bad, but I miss the old start menu.
I didn't try any metro apps for long, but Im annoyed by having fullscreen metro apps on 24" screen.
Having to move your cursor to the side of the screen to reveal hidden menus is fucking stupid.
Why was shutdown/restart made much harder, or at least take much longer, to do?
Why does Windows 8 automatically log you in to the account that you used the last? This isn't useful, it's a detriment.
My mother couldn't get her head round these changes, nor could I justify them to her.
The fact alone that there's a large enough demand for something like Start8 and similar should've been enough of a wake-up call for Microsoft.
It's like they can't admit that the current general interface for W8 just simply doesn't suit a large enough segment to have it as the only option, and also refuses to add a option to toggle between a "classic" mode, and the "new" mode.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;39095786]If there's anything I've been taught from various software engineering modules and research in my own time, yeah, MS do know better. The user likes to think they know what they want, when in reality, most users have no idea what they actually want until something is tested. A user can request features in their program like "I want a spinning dick on startup!!!", but it is the job of the engineer to say "well, a spinning dick on startup is all well and good, but try this, it's a spinning dick on exit instead". The user will of course, be a bit apprehensive at first, it isn't what they requested after all, but if it actually functions better (which the start screen does in many ways), the user can eventually work out, yes, the engineer knows what they actually want.
Spinning dicks isn't the greatest analogy, but it gets the point across. Did you even read any of those blog links I posted a page or so back? Because that was MS explaining exactly what I just did, but with better reasoning.[/QUOTE]
Obligatory post asking someone to develop this.
I always did think they'd make it an option. Seems like an oversight [I]not[/I] to. Want people to give it a shot? Just make it the default.
[QUOTE=Van-man;39096524][B]The fact alone that there's a large enough demand for something like Start8 and similar should've been enough of a wake-up call for Microsoft.[/B]
It's like they can't admit that the current general interface for W8 just simply doesn't suit a large enough segment to have it as the only option, and also refuses to add a option to toggle between a "classic" mode, and the "new" mode.[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
This is the only function I miss from the startmenu:
[IMG]http://beingpc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Show-or-hide-recent-programs-in-the-Windows-7-start-menu.jpg[/IMG]
Namely that you could expand your recent programs to show their functions an recently used files.
The rest of the functions that I need are in the Start Screen as well as in the Start Menu before.
But still I'm a person who detests full screen programs since the early days of adventure games
in the 90th where you could not switch to windowed mode.
But i love the file copy graph thing in windows 8.
And think for a second of the Start Screen as a second desktop. I explain:
I see so much people(co workers) filling their desktops with program links since the first time
I used windows that i think the big majority of windows users,
namely the office people didn't used the start menu that much (sadly).
So I think the start sceen is the best possible way, at the time,
to remove these heaps of icons form the desktops of the people at work and the home usere too.
Why this is even necessary in the eyes of microsoft designers, I can only guess.
(if you read you can guess that too)
Would be cool if metro had a thing like that where it can take over a side of your screen and you can scroll through the menus like that, while still being able to go on the internet or watch a video or something.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;39097614][citation needed][/QUOTE]
Here's ONE site only:
[url]http://download.cnet.com/Start8/3000-2072_4-75732532.html[/url]
They've logged that start8 has been downloaded at-least 20000 times in just a week.
Now add more sites logging downloads of the trial to the mix, and it all adds up.
[editline]even MORE[/editline]
and:
[URL="http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/19/start8-utility-update-sales"]Start button utility strips even more '8' from Windows 8, has sold 'tens of thousands' of copies[/URL]
I would like to point out the date of that article.
[QUOTE=redBadger;39097761]Start8 looks like shit imo[/QUOTE]
And metro is the equivalent of a quadriplegic entering in a triathlon.
Pick your poison.
Start8 looks like shit imo
[QUOTE=V3cT0r;39097615]This is the only function I miss from the startmenu:
[IMG]http://beingpc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Show-or-hide-recent-programs-in-the-Windows-7-start-menu.jpg[/IMG]
Namely that you could expand your recent programs to show their functions an recently used files.
The rest of the functions that I need are in the Start Screen as well as in the Start Menu before.
But still I'm a person who detests full screen programs since the early days of adventure games
in the 90th where you could not switch to windowed mode.
But i love the file copy graph thing in windows 8.
And think for a second of the Start Screen as a second desktop. I explain:
I see so much people(co workers) filling their desktops with program links since the first time
I used windows that i think the big majority of windows users,
namely the office people didn't used the start menu that much (sadly).
So I think the start sceen is the best possible way, at the time,
to remove these heaps of icons form the desktops of the people at work and the home usere too.
Why this is even necessary in the eyes of microsoft designers, I can only guess.
(if you read you can guess that too)[/QUOTE]
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2013-01-05_00-27-52.png[/img]
I have no other icons on my desktop.
[QUOTE=Van-man;39097749]Here's ONE site only:
[url]http://download.cnet.com/Start8/3000-2072_4-75732532.html[/url]
They've logged that start8 has been downloaded at-least 20000 times in just a week.
Now add more sites logging downloads of the trial to the mix, and it all adds up.
[editline]even MORE[/editline]
and:
[URL="http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/19/start8-utility-update-sales"]Start button utility strips even more '8' from Windows 8, has sold 'tens of thousands' of copies[/URL]
I would like to point out the date of that article.
And metro is the equivalent of a quadriplegic entering in a triathlon.
Pick your poison.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Nov12/11-28NovShareholderPR.aspx"]by november 28 microsoft sold 40 million copies[/URL]
'tens of thousands' out of 40 million users don't really seem like a large enough amount of people to me
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Van-man;39097749]And metro is the equivalent of a quadriplegic entering in a triathlon.
Pick your poison.[/QUOTE]
then why am i launching apps i use from the new start menu much faster than from the old one
[QUOTE=V3cT0r;39093383]Because people will alway have more experience and knowledge about something when they
participate in it and [B]knowledge is the foundation of tolerance[/B].[/QUOTE]
I know a lot more then the average windows user about the inner workings at Microsoft and I can't tolerate the actual crap that happened. Just on new years an ex employee was talking about how windows screwed people on the mobile level, I asked about his NDA and he said, "fuck NDA". We were all drunk so he probably said that out of drinking hard liquor as all of us did. But I can't tolerate the practices at microsoft in the OS division.
[b]tolerance comes from the knowledge of good practice[/b]
Like what a friend who at one time worked on windows 8 said, "just wait for 9".
I bet 9 is going to be the same damn thing with UI improvements and the option to choose metro & classic
[QUOTE=Ezhik;39097906][URL="http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Nov12/11-28NovShareholderPR.aspx"]by november 28 microsoft sold 40 million copies[/URL]
'tens of thousands' out of 40 million users don't really seem like a large enough amount of people to me
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
then why am i launching apps i use from the new start menu much faster than from the old one[/QUOTE]
Number of used copies =/= number of sold copies.
Microsoft gets a sale for every PC sold with Windows 8 that's how they get a large portion of their sales. It doesn't necessarily mean that 40 million people use Windows 8.
That of course doesn't mean that the percentage is big - but if there is a significant number of people who don't like a change, something ought to be done about it.
And besides - looking at how many people use Start8 isn't a good way to determine how many people are displeased with the changes.
And further more, using the sales figure is an even worse way to prove Metro is a better interface - Windows 7 sold many times that and it had the old menu, but you wouldn't take that as an argument.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39097844]I have no other icons on my desktop.[/QUOTE]
Then you are in the minority of people who actually keep their Desktop clean, just like me.
[QUOTE=Ithon;39098139]I know a lot more then the average windows user about the inner workings at Microsoft and I can't tolerate the actual crap that happened. Just on new years an ex employee was talking about how windows screwed people on the mobile level, I asked about his NDA and he said, "fuck NDA". We were all drunk so he probably said that out of drinking hard liquor as all of us did. But I can't tolerate the practices at microsoft in the OS division.
[b]tolerance comes from the knowledge of good practice[/b]
Like what a friend who at one time worked on windows 8 said, "just wait for 9".[/QUOTE]
Acknowledged!
[QUOTE=Stopper;39098285]Number of used copies =/= number of sold copies.
Microsoft gets a sale for every PC sold with Windows 8 that's how they get a large portion of their sales. It doesn't necessarily mean that 40 million people use Windows 8.
That of course doesn't mean that the percentage is big - but if there is a significant number of people who don't like a change, something ought to be done about it.
And besides - looking at how many people use Start8 isn't a good way to determine how many people are displeased with the changes.
And further more, using the sales figure is an even worse way to prove Metro is a better interface - Windows 7 sold many times that and it had the old menu, but you wouldn't take that as an argument.[/QUOTE]
we don't really know if there's a significant number though
and i imagine that most people who got a win8 device would just continue using it
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=redBadger;39098207]I bet 9 is going to be the same damn thing with UI improvements and the option to choose metro & classic[/QUOTE]
classic is never coming back
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ithon;39098139]I know a lot more then the average windows user about the inner workings at Microsoft and I can't tolerate the actual crap that happened. Just on new years an ex employee was talking about how windows screwed people on the mobile level, I asked about his NDA and he said, "fuck NDA". We were all drunk so he probably said that out of drinking hard liquor as all of us did. But I can't tolerate the practices at microsoft in the OS division.
[b]tolerance comes from the knowledge of good practice[/b]
Like what a friend who at one time worked on windows 8 said, "just wait for 9".[/QUOTE]
wait what's the mobile level
windows mobile he means?
well yeah they did that because wm just wasn't selling at all
sometimes you have to make radical decisions to survive
I wouldn't be surprised if there's at-least a certain amount of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization"]Post-purchase rationalization[/URL] among those who've bought Win8 and claims it's the bees knees.
the fact alone that Microsoft[B] PREVIOUSLY[/B] offered both a [I]classic version[/I] and a [I]new version[/I], with the new version as standard (unless shitty computer), combined with the aggressive price of Win8, just makes it feel like they're trying to shove Metro down people's throats (metaphorically).
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_of_all_trades,_master_of_none"]Trying to be a jack of all trades (laptop, desktop & tablet) but ending up as a master of none.[/URL]
Not to mention the half-assed effort on the transition from win7 to win8 usage wise.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;39097906][URL="http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Nov12/11-28NovShareholderPR.aspx"]by november 28 microsoft sold 40 million copies[/URL]
'tens of thousands' out of 40 million users don't really seem like a large enough amount of people to me
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
then why am i launching apps i use from the new start menu much faster than from the old one[/QUOTE]
Because YOU like it. You enjoy it and it appeals to users similar to YOU.
I, however, don't like it. Breaks concentration, forces usage of the whole screen when its unnecessary to do so, does far more than I'd ever want the easy-access-simple-application-launcher that is my start menu to do. I don't enjoy it, its fucking annoying. Things that are fucking annoying don't get installed on my machines, period.
The only reason I haven't switched is because I have no reason to switch at all, I'm fine with Windows 7, might fork the money over once I feel like formatting but for now I'm good, not gonna switch just for the sake of it.
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