Windows 8 proving less popular than Vista - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Stopper;39099751]Ok, no. I refuse to go over 15 pages just because you're too lazy to read. Plenty of reasons were presented.[/QUOTE] Fine, your loss. I jumped to a random page to re-read arguments I've already read a fucking ton. First one I hit "try navigating it with a touch screen, now try mouse and keyboard, which was faster". Well, touch screen obviously. But that doesn't mean it sucks for mousing around on. MS did research into this shit, if you place your icons correctly, it works out faster than Start menu, as more will be closer to the mouse at any time. Okay, another page; "when you want a simple start menu of a PC, it gives you the start screen of a tablet." Well, it's not really a start screen of a tablet. It's a start screen that happens to be tablet friendly. It doesn't require a tablet to use, and works quite nicely with a mouse if you aren't physically impaired or mentally retarded. It's not a hard menu to navigate at all, even with a mouse. Oh fine, one more if you insist; "The new UI elements still had the same functionality as what was in Win7 but they way it's layed out means it just takes so many more clicks or mouse movements to do something" Well, no. It doesn't. As the MS blog points out, the heiracheal structure of the Start menu actually starts to introduce a lot of mouse movement (like, an obscene amount), especially if your start folders get full enough, lets look at this now shall we? From an open start menu, you move your mouse to all programs and click (small movement and a click), you hover over a folder and click (movement and a click), you pick an app and click (movement and a click again). In the worst case for the start screen (app is only in all programs), you right click (one click), select "view all" or whatever it is (tiny bit of movement and a click), scroll (no movement), pick your app and launch it (tiny bit of movement and a click). So...I'm not seeing more movement here?

[QUOTE=hexpunK;39099939]words[/QUOTE] This is called cherrypicking and I'm going to bed.

[QUOTE=Stopper;39099966]This is called cherrypicking and I'm going to bed.[/QUOTE] but you're not actually going in and providing other arguments yourself, so we should just take your word for it then?

[QUOTE=Stopper;39099966]This is called cherrypicking and I'm going to bed.[/QUOTE] yeah, he picked all the arguments that weren't "touchscreens are terrible" and "fullscreen is bad"

[QUOTE=Stopper;39099966]This is called cherrypicking and I'm going to bed.[/QUOTE] Hey, I just went back through the pages looking for actual arguments (there's so much shit I had to cherrypick the things that were actual arguments). But y'know, your loss. You could have cherrypicked your way to victory too.

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39098771] wait what's the mobile level windows mobile he means? well yeah they did that because wm just wasn't selling at all sometimes you have to make radical decisions to survive[/QUOTE] Sorry he was talking about the windows phone which replaced mobile and mobile is another term for phone even though the definition of mobile can be short of mobility like tablets or portable embedded devices. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile[/url] Yes sometimes radical decisions have to be made and which is exactly why microsoft is relying so much on this OS to succeed.

honestly I think WP8 is the nicest looking phone OS. It's very colorful and attractive.

Do wish Microsoft focused more on windows 8 to more productive in peer programming or just two people sharing one screen, then a tablet desktop hybrid. I'm not a person who uses a touch screen on a large screen often, but I do sometimes point and touch a part of a screen when I'm telling someone next to be about whatever. I think windows will start selling like hotcakes once applications are developed that support such peer activities or if the next windows or this windows changes to implement this style of work.

[QUOTE=redBadger;39100095]honestly I think WP8 is the nicest looking phone OS. It's very colorful and attractive.[/QUOTE] I'd agree there, but that still doesn't mean the general style is well suited for desktop use.

[QUOTE=redBadger;39099398]you guys need to realize that W8 is a step in the right direction for the future of personalized computers. Soon enough, most monitors are going to be touch screen, and instead of laptops we're going to see more thin ultrabooks and tablets, which will support touch. Windows 8 is the perfect start to the future. However, yes I do agree that there should be more customization options to appeal to the regular desktop user. The old Start Menu is never coming back, but that doesn't mean certain start menu features cannot return, like the condensed folders or whatever the hell you call them. Touch is going to be wildly used for media and browsing: Checking maps, email, social networks, watching movies, browsing pictures, etc. That's what a lot of people use personal computers for nowadays. For the more advanced (or more in-depth) user, [B]they'll still require a keyboard and mouse[/B], they'll just also have touch screen capabilities already built into the OS [B]for mostly basic tasks.[/B] In short, computer technology is heading down an all touch road for basic tasks only. W8 provides the touch ability and makes it look nice at the same time, and that alone makes W8 ahead of other operating systems. Keyboard and Mouse will not be replaced anytime soon, as they are pretty much a requirement for using advanced applications and gaming. Hell, if I could, I'd replace my mouse and simply use touch. My PC is at a comfortable angle where I can touch and scroll with my finger, and my monitor is large enough where I won't touch a wrong thing. Of course, the keyboard could never be replaced.[/QUOTE] This might be fine on a tablet, but who is going to go with a predominately touch based interface on a desktop computer? It's awkward as hell to use. Unlike a tablet where you're holding the screen, on a desktop the monitor is at the back of your desk, I know I have to reach my hand out to touch my screen, and there's no way in hell that has any benefits over just using a mouse. Supporting touch based and mouse based input is fine, but the whole issue with Win8 is that they focused on touch based inputs (and mapped mouse based ones to them). I still remember the Microsoft conference where they had the designers up, and the touch ones talked about how you got to use touch gestures on your touch screen and how great it was, then the mouse guy comes up and says "We know gestures don't work well with mice", then proceeded to show off the touch gestures unmodified with a mouse, etc.

did you seriously miss every single time when we said that windows 8 is not awkward to use with a mouse

He probably couldn't hear you over the sound of how awesome he is.

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39101158]did you seriously miss every single time when we said that windows 8 is not awkward to use with a mouse[/QUOTE] But but but it's not a mouse interface unless you're clicking on buttons half a cm tall!

I wont lie, what are these touchpad gestures that everyone keeps going on about? I didnt even know there were touchpad gestures, besides the normal mouse ones.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;39099609]I find it funny that people who like 8 always imply that the only way you can't like 8 is if you didn't use it, that all change is good, and that everyone who uses 8 loves it. Post-purchase rationalisation everywhere. I'm not saying you can't like it, but the way you guys make it seem like you can't dislike it makes me think there's a little nugget of regret in there.[/QUOTE] I can't speak for everyone but I gathered my impressions from when it was a 100% free preview where I had the liberty to switch to and from the OSes at will. There's no buyer's remorse when you didn't buy anything.

[QUOTE=Van-man;39099534]Touchscreen has (and most likely will) always have a limited market.[/QUOTE] Touchscreens are a limited market because nobody develops shit for touchscreens. And nobody develops shit for touchscreens because touchscreens are a limited market. And touchscreens are a limited market because nobody develops shit for touchscreens. And nobody develops shit for Linux because Linux has a tiny user base. And Linux has a tiny user base because most programs don't have Linux versions. Do you see where my problem with all "touchscreen market" related arguments is?

[QUOTE=Ezhik;39101158]did you seriously miss every single time when we said that windows 8 is not awkward to use with a mouse[/QUOTE] You saying it's not awkward doesn't change my experiences using it. Having to use gestures to accomplish simple tasks that required just clicks with previous releases is awkward.

Windows 8 supports gestures? [editline]5th January 2013[/editline] I never noticed that in the previews. How do they work?

I bought it today, i had Win7 Home Premium before but will soon be installing 24GB Ram, which means i needed either Win7 Professional or Win8 Professional. After a bit of searching i found out that an upgrade to Win7 Prof. would cost anywhere between 80-150€, and at least 50-60€ for an OEM Branded full version of it. The upgrade to Win 8 Pro cost me 30€, and i don't regret a thing. After installing a start menu app i find all the little fixes and improvements really great, and the new Task Manager is just sexy as hell. You really don't need to use the Metro interface at all, so it's more like an optional thing. Pushing it so hard was a huge marketing mistake in my opinion.

I'm getting a very Marmite vibe from this thread...

[QUOTE=redBadger;39099749]w7: start > power > shutdown w8: (charms) settings > power >shutdown . I said this a few pages back. It's the same amount of steps.[/QUOTE] On W7, it's Start>Shutdown. Windows 8 adds a Charm menu into the equation which you reveal by hovering your mouse in one of the right-hand side corners. To shutdown your computer, you need to go to the settings menu. This adds extra and unnecessary mouse movements and clicks.

[QUOTE=Dr Bob;39103942]On W7, it's Start>Shutdown. Windows 8 adds a Charm menu into the equation which you reveal by hovering your mouse in one of the right-hand side corners. To shutdown your computer, you need to go to the settings menu. This adds extra and unnecessary mouse movements and clicks.[/QUOTE] The amount of clicks is exactly the same, though. The travel distance is a bit longer, though. But I don't see how it's really a problem, it's easily negated by the time you save in boot, and it's not like it's hard to do. It's a bit concealed to new users, though, and that's a problem. And Windows 8 will never be used in a professional environment, as shown here: [url]http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/04/us-department-of-defense-signs-617-million-windows-8-deal/[/url]

[QUOTE=redBadger;39099749]w7: start > power > shutdown w8: (charms) settings > power >shutdown . I said this a few pages back. It's the same amount of steps.[/QUOTE] [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2013-01-05_14-29-43.png[/img] that's two clicks [editline]5th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Ezhik;39101158]did you seriously miss every single time when we said that windows 8 is not awkward to use with a mouse[/QUOTE] It was awkward for me, so uh.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39104501][img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2013-01-05_14-29-43.png[/img] that's two clicks[/QUOTE] I've changed it to show "change user" as default, since I use that to lock my computers. But the average Joe doesn't, so it's still a valid complaint.

[QUOTE=Van-man;39104821]I've changed it to show "change user" as default, since I use that to lock my computers. But the average Joe doesn't, so it's still a valid complaint.[/QUOTE] Win + L. Though standard that start menu button is on sleep instead of shut down I think, don't know why they ever thought that was a good idea.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39105202]Win + L. Though standard that start menu button is on sleep instead of shut down I think, don't know why they ever thought that was a good idea.[/QUOTE] I prefer a quick mouse action, since I can't see my keyboard in the dark.

Win + I, it automatically opens charm settings, Power > Sleep. If you can't do this in a matter of 3 seconds, there something wrong with you.

Because nobody likes imperialistscumoftheearthcolonistidiotrapisthipsterdrugaddictchildrenidiotidiotidiot tablets,neither their looks. PC is PC,not some imperialistscumoftheearthcolonistidiotrapisthipsterdrugaddictchildrenidiotidiotidiot tablet.

Glad to hear.Windows 8 is horrible for anyone that actually uses their computer for work.

[QUOTE=The golden;39107323]I can tell you right now that that is by FAR not the only reason.[/QUOTE] That is not. It's hard to use linux. Shit breaks and to fix it you have to dig in deep. There was this presentation video "Linux sucks" or something by a linux developer but I can't find it right now, so if anyone knows of it please post. There are plenty of reasons why linux is not perfect and lack of apps is not the only one.