[QUOTE=defy;51622489]Just because minimum wage goes up, doesn't necessarily mean paychecks will go up very much. Last time minimum wage went up in LA, all part timers at my store went from having a maximum of 28 hours a week to a maximum of 25 hours a week and we couldn't hire another employee when someone quit.
If company has to pay more in wages, they won't often cut jobs, they'll just cut hours or raise the cost of their products. Vons around me seems to have less people at a time running cashiers and prices for almost everything has gone up in some cases over a dollar in the last two years.
I just don't see raising minimum wage being that beneficial when my hours are cut and things cost more as a result. Making $15/an hour isn't enough to survive in places like Seattle and LA when you only get 25 hours, unless you get a second job which then you won't receive overtime or full-time benefits when working over 40 hours a week.[/QUOTE]
Businesses cutting hours in response to wage increases does not make any sense. They would already have employee hours at the bare minimum required to keep the business running; any more than that would be a waste of money, regardless of how low or high the wages are. If wages rise and a business decides to cut back hours, either less work will be done eg shelves will be empty more-frequently, meaning lower sales and profits, or the business was going to cut those hours anyways.
It makes much more sense for them to either absorb the wage increase, or raise prices. The latter isn't even that bad. Eg if you have a store that has 20 employees who each work 8 hours on each day, and there's an across-the-board wage increase of $3 per hour, that's only an increase of $480 for daily wage expense. Such a store may have daily sales of $50,000, so the increased wage expense is equivalent to only 1% of sales. A 1% price hike would barely be noticed by customers.
[QUOTE=defy;51622489]Just because minimum wage goes up, doesn't necessarily mean paychecks will go up very much. Last time minimum wage went up in LA, all part timers at my store went from having a maximum of 28 hours a week to a maximum of 25 hours a week and we couldn't hire another employee when someone quit.
If company has to pay more in wages, they won't often cut jobs, they'll just cut hours or raise the cost of their products. Vons around me seems to have less people at a time running cashiers and prices for almost everything has gone up in some cases over a dollar in the last two years.
I just don't see raising minimum wage being that beneficial when my hours are cut and things cost more as a result. Making $15/an hour isn't enough to survive in places like Seattle and LA when you only get 25 hours, unless you get a second job which then you won't receive overtime or full-time benefits when working over 40 hours a week.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't make any sense though -- if a business owner's instinct is to cut back employee hours to avoid paying more, then their business will also likely turn up smaller profits, thus driving hours back even further as they are unable to keep the lights on. That kind of mindset just means the business is going to close, or like the poster above noted, that they were planning to cut hours anyways.
When I worked at Safeco field (Seattle's baseball park) many of my fellow employees barely made ends meet, and they would all commute from as far north as Lynnwood and as far south as Kent. They could only live there because of housing prices, too.
This is a good change and is needed. Costs of living here won't drop anytime soon. I'm probably unlucky enough that once I graduate and get an actual job in 1-2yrs housing prices will be JUST high enough ot be out of my range, yay
[QUOTE=BF;51623585]Businesses cutting hours in response to wage increases does not make any sense. They would already have employee hours at the bare minimum required to keep the business running; any more than that would be a waste of money, regardless of how low or high the wages are. If wages rise and a business decides to cut back hours, either less work will be done eg shelves will be empty more-frequently, meaning lower sales and profits, or the business was going to cut those hours anyways.
It makes much more sense for them to either absorb the wage increase, or raise prices. The latter isn't even that bad. Eg if you have a store that has 20 employees who each work 8 hours on each day, and there's an across-the-board wage increase of $3 per hour, that's only an increase of $480 for daily wage expense. Such a store may have daily sales of $50,000, so the increased wage expense is equivalent to only 1% of sales. A 1% price hike would barely be noticed by customers.[/QUOTE]
Those are good points. Maybe it was just my experience. At least with my store, we went from have a minimum of two to three employees at the store at any given time, to only 1 person during non-peak hours and no more than three the rest of the time.
The other thing I that's often experienced however, is when minimum wage goes up a dollar, not everyone in the store gets that dollar wage increase.
(also anecdotal)I started at $10/hr when minimum wage was $8 and 2 years and several promotions and pay increases later, I was making 11.40 when minimum wage was bumped to $10.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51623473]I could see it happening in the industrial areas. Non-unionized manufacturing jobs typically pay incredibly low.[/QUOTE]
???
i work in a non-unionized manufacturing job, they pay well above my state's minimum wage of 8$/hour.
[QUOTE=Sableye;51624102]???
i work in a non-unionized manufacturing job, they pay well above my state's minimum wage of 8$/hour.[/QUOTE]
>>typically<<
[QUOTE=aznz888;51623599]That doesn't make any sense though -- if a business owner's instinct is to cut back employee hours to avoid paying more, then their business will also likely turn up smaller profits, thus driving hours back even further as they are unable to keep the lights on. That kind of mindset just means the business is going to close, or like the poster above noted, that they were planning to cut hours anyways.[/QUOTE]
Then they just push employees harder. They'll give you 6 hours worth of work, and say to get it done in 3 hours.
Even so, they make plenty of profit elsewhere that they're doing just fine. Like I said, they don't need to cut hours. They really don't. But they want to. The people making these decisions want to keep their high pay, they want to keep their lifestyle. If increasing minimum wages may interfere with that, they're going to do what they can to keep enough money in the company for them to live their comfortable life.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51623473]I could see it happening in the industrial areas. Non-unionized manufacturing jobs typically pay incredibly low.[/QUOTE]
I would be very surprised if that were true. Every warehouse/manufacturing/etc. job I've seen, even the non-unionized jobs, started around $12/h.
Although, now I guess that would be minimum.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624970]I would be very surprised if that were true. Every warehouse/manufacturing/etc. job I've seen, even the non-unionized jobs, started around $12/h.
Although, now I guess that would be minimum.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that you got me on ignore list, but as far as my (impersonal) knowledge of warehousing jobs, those widely vary between as low as 8 dollars to 14 dollars per hour, depending on the location and specifics of items being transfered.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624970]I would be very surprised if that were true. Every warehouse/manufacturing/etc. job I've seen, even the non-unionized jobs, started around $12/h.
Although, now I guess that would be minimum.[/QUOTE]
No clue on manufacturing but warehousing work in Florida will definitely not see $12/h starting.
[QUOTE=defy;51623623](also anecdotal)I started at $10/hr when minimum wage was $8 and [B]2 years and several promotions and pay increases later, I was making 11.40 when minimum wage was bumped to $10[/B].[/QUOTE]
I'm much more interested in this aspect which is never discussed (I'd assume because most of the people talking about this are people that directly benefit; low paid workers). I want to see how bad the backlash will be when the minimum wage is equal or near-equal to the wage of someone that spent years of time to get raises and promotions, or someone that spent years at college.
The companies will never agree to slide their wages upward in proportion to the rising minimum wage in order to pay someone what their worth and I'm predicting national protests within the next 10 years over it.
[QUOTE=Axznma;51625097]I'm much more interested in this aspect which is never discussed (I'd assume because most of the people talking about this are people that directly benefit; low paid workers). I want to see how bad the backlash will be when the minimum wage is equal or near-equal to the wage of someone that spent years of time to get raises and promotions, or someone that spent years at college.
The companies will never agree to slide their wages upward in proportion to the rising minimum wage in order to pay someone what their worth and I'm predicting national protests within the next 10 years over it.[/QUOTE]
From personal experience, vets will grumble in the breakroom and get over it or find a better job.
[QUOTE=gufu;51625007]I'm pretty sure that you got me on ignore list, but as far as my (impersonal) knowledge of warehousing jobs, those widely vary between as low as 8 dollars to 14 dollars per hour, depending on the location and specifics of items being transfered.[/QUOTE]
I don't have anybody on ignore. I just actively ignore people who I don't see value in responding to.
I can only go off the jobs I've seen. It seems, unsurprisingly, that difference areas have different wages.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51625114]I don't have anybody on ignore. I just actively ignore people who I don't see value in responding to.[/QUOTE]
Well, I appreciate that even if my points are going to be generally ignored by you, you'll still see them.
But yes, situational factors are highly important, but even two of the positions in the same area (both location and type of position) can have highly different wages.
[QUOTE=BF;51623585]It makes much more sense for them to either absorb the wage increase, or raise prices. The latter isn't even that bad. Eg if you have a store that has 20 employees who each work 8 hours on each day, and there's an across-the-board wage increase of $3 per hour, that's only an increase of $480 for daily wage expense. Such a store may have daily sales of $50,000, so the increased wage expense is equivalent to only 1% of sales. A 1% price hike would barely be noticed by customers.[/QUOTE]
I remember seeing a study showing mcdonald's could pay double that of minimum raise by increasing the cost of each menu item something stupid like 5-15 cents due to how much volume the average location pumps out (probably provided McD corporate spreads the added profit evenly to all stores, since some stores are far less trafficked than others)
I love seeing more of this kind of stuff that shows how hilariously shallow the investment would be for megacorps to stop being pieces of shit
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624970]I would be very surprised if that were true. Every warehouse/manufacturing/etc. job I've seen, even the non-unionized jobs, started around $12/h.
Although, now I guess that would be minimum.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gufu;51625007]I'm pretty sure that you got me on ignore list, but as far as my (impersonal) knowledge of warehousing jobs, those widely vary between as low as 8 dollars to 14 dollars per hour, depending on the location and specifics of items being transfered.[/QUOTE]
I started at $12.50 loading trailers for Cracker Barrel at their distribution center, just to bulletpoint these statements.
[QUOTE=defy;51623623]Those are good points. Maybe it was just my experience. At least with my store, we went from have a minimum of two to three employees at the store at any given time, to only 1 person during non-peak hours and no more than three the rest of the time.
The other thing I that's often experienced however, is when minimum wage goes up a dollar, not everyone in the store gets that dollar wage increase.
(also anecdotal)I started at $10/hr when minimum wage was $8 and 2 years and several promotions and pay increases later, I was making 11.40 when minimum wage was bumped to $10.[/QUOTE]
We have regular wage increases here, eg I work in retail and I'm covered by an enterprise bargaining agreement (negotiated between the employer, employees and the union) which provides for two raises per year. However, we don't see hours suddenly drop every time a new raise comes into effect; we have a certain amount of stuff that needs to be done every day, and if we fall behind, our stockroom becomes a disaster, and the shelves go empty. Our employee budgets are done in terms of labour hours (eg we might have 32 hours of shelf fillers in per night), not wage costs.
One option that the store can pursue is hiring juniors to do the job, eg people like me who are 21 or older get $22 per hour base rate, while 17 year olds get something like $12 per hour base rate. But most kids these days are absolutely hopeless at even the most-menial of jobs - we have a few 16 year olds, and they pretty much try to take a toilet break every ten minutes just to fuck around on their phones. They are rarely asked to do extra shifts, and the main reason for why they haven't been fired yet is because you really have to fuck up bad here to get the boot.
My last warehouse job started at minimum, back when it was barely $9, then bumped up to $10 and stayed there. The warehouse I work in now [I]starts[/I] at $15 and caps at $22.50 base wage. Just depends on the company and what you do.
I'm not an economist and therefore don't have any true knowledge of what i'm talking about but won't raising the minimum wage just raise prices elsewhere over time meaning the rise is useless?
[QUOTE=AutismoPiggo;51626217]I'm not an economist and therefore don't have any true knowledge of what i'm talking about but won't raising the minimum wage just raise prices elsewhere over time meaning the rise is useless?[/QUOTE]
Not always. However humans are greedy bastards and want to make as much money as inhumanely possible.
[QUOTE=AutismoPiggo;51626217]I'm not an economist and therefore don't have any true knowledge of what i'm talking about but won't raising the minimum wage just raise prices elsewhere over time meaning the rise is useless?[/QUOTE]
Inflation raises prices, but wage increases aren't the sole contributor to inflation. Demand-pull inflation can happen for any number of reasons, eg look at the skyrocketing house prices in major cities.
If wage increases did not happen, the real value of wages would fall over time, so each $ you have wouldn't be able to buy as much stuff a few years from now. Wage increases are an increase in the nominal value of wages, yes, but they act to maintain the real value of wages.
So if everything keeps going up, rent, insurance, medical costs, everything, it all keeps going up every year and will for the forseeable future, but our wages don't go up, how does that benefit people?
I'm not sure if just jumping it to 15$ is the answer, because now minimum wage employees in the state of Washington make more than I do after training, raises, and what not in my career, but there has to be something coming down the pipeline. There's no way we can continue to increase the cost of everything and reduce the pay of the majority.
The question is why is it inherent that these prices must always rise? Our efficiency increases, our production increases, we invest in infrastructure and jobs and things that pay off and enrich us later, so why then must the price of goods increase, if we are constantly in the process of making them cheaper to produce?
Raising minimum wage doesn't fix the problem.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;51628422][B]The question is why is it inherent that these prices must always rise? [/B]Our efficiency increases, our production increases, we invest in infrastructure and jobs and things that pay off and enrich us later, so why then must the price of goods increase, if we are constantly in the process of making them cheaper to produce?
Raising minimum wage doesn't fix the problem.[/QUOTE]
Because otherwise you have deflation which is a bad time for everyone.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;51628422]The question is why is it inherent that these prices must always rise? Our efficiency increases, our production increases, we invest in infrastructure and jobs and things that pay off and enrich us later, so why then must the price of goods increase, if we are constantly in the process of making them cheaper to produce?
Raising minimum wage doesn't fix the problem.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much all economists agree that mild inflation is the best thing for the economy. In fact, the Reserve Bank of Australia has a target of maintaining inflation at 2-3% per annum.
Runaway inflation is very bad, but stagnation or deflation are also terrible. Stagnation is bad for confidence as it can create a lot of uncertainties, ultimately harming the economy, and deflation is also bad because that would encourage people to save their money rather than spend it.
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