• Donald Trump calls for 'ridiculous' new Boeing Air Force One to be scrapped
    100 replies, posted
[quote]Two Boeing 747-200 aircraft are currently used and the Boeing deal involves replacing them with two Boeing 747-8 planes.[/quote] Fuck you trump, replace the -200's. They're long overdue.
[QUOTE=butre;51486388]2 planes is enough to build and furnish enough shipping container homes for the entire homeless population of the united states to live in, not even including the bulk purchase discounts[/QUOTE] Yea, but merica...
[quote]Mr Trump said on Twitter: "Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!" The US president-elect later added: "The plane is totally out of control. I think it's ridiculous. I think Boeing is doing a little bit of a number. We want Boeing to make a lot of money but not that much money."[/quote] So having a top-tier aircraft that can serve as the mobile command center for the President of the United States and is impervious to all kinds of shit, that's "ridiculous"... ...meanwhile, living inside of a Manhattan penthouse--which was personally designed by the late [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Donghia]Angelo Donghia[/url] in the style of Louis XIV's Versailles-- with 24k gold thrown on everything (base molds and accentuations on the ceiling, cups and glasses, plates, vases, serving trays and dishes), crystal chandeliers, marble floors, an original Renoir ("La Loge"), a fountain, Greco-Roman statues everywhere... apparently isn't ridiculous. Alrighty then.
[QUOTE=OvB;51486101]I have a feeling that the two Air Force One jets have a crap load of top secret shit on them that we don't know about that inflates the price. I wouldn't be surprised if those things were armed with offensive and defensive weapons, plus full hospital, escape pods, survival gear, etc, etc.[/QUOTE] Public already knows the air force One has a hospital inside of it with a doctor present, advanced defence shielding, missile protection, a nuclear football, internet and phone lines, televisions, defence Radio, anti toxicity shit etc 60% of the cost is black budget, shit the public won't know and shit Trump won't know until he takes office. His private jet would not pass the secret service and FBI test
[QUOTE=Paramud;51486065]I wonder how much of Trump's presidency will be spent on twitter.[/QUOTE] At least we know Trump's presidency won't be wasting money on this unneeded expense [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;51486440]So having a top-tier aircraft that can serve as the mobile command center for the President of the United States and is impervious to all kinds of shit, that's "ridiculous"... ...meanwhile, living inside of a Manhattan penthouse--which was personally designed by the late [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Donghia]Angelo Donghia[/url] in the style of Louis XIV's Versailles-- with 24k gold thrown on everything (base molds and accentuations on the ceiling, cups and glasses, plates, vases, serving trays and dishes), crystal chandeliers, marble floors, an original Renoir ("La Loge"), a fountain, Greco-Roman statues everywhere... apparently isn't ridiculous. Alrighty then.[/QUOTE] Did the taxpayers pay for Trump's penthouse? Why are you complaining?
Now how else is he going to encrypt his Twitter messages as POTUS? Emails even! This is a serious breach of protocol. Sad!
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51486383][media] tags [media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/291964245602607105[/media] like so[/QUOTE] I feel like using your position to create a public outcry and then buying stocks once that companies value drops is somewhere in the region of 'something the leader of the country really really shouldn't be doing'
[QUOTE]"We want Boeing to make a lot of money but not that much money."[/QUOTE] Can you imagine what would be said if someone like Bernie Sanders used this line? The hypocrisy is incredible.
A lot of what Air Force One and Two have are classified, but it has twice the length of wiring in it than a normal 747, it's own retractable stairways and baggage loaders so it doesn't have to depend on an airport's facilities, Close to a hundred phones and 20 televisions, shielding to protect against EMP's, can do midair refueling, can jam RADAR and has ECM against missiles. All that communication equipment including secure lines. It can actually travel damn near Mach 1 and during 9/11 F-16's that were escorting it were asking the pilot to slow down. Then there's the interior, which is nothing like an actual 747, has offices and an entire emergency room stocked with everything I could see it costing $4 Bil. Probably $2 Billion for each of two planes. Basically the same as a B-2 bomber.
Is there not something ironic in Trump calling for the next generation of the safest plane in the world to be scaped due to price - considering the man has an elevator made out of gold in his home? I mean, I'm aware that the planes are being made with public money, but out of all the excessive spending the United States does, he targets something that's designed to save his ass and future President's asses?
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;51486538]I feel like using your position to create a public outcry and then buying stocks once that companies value drops is somewhere in the region of 'something the leader of the country really really shouldn't be doing'[/QUOTE] I'd say it's on the same level as Insider Trading. Which is a [B]huge[/B] federal crime.
We've had the current AF1 for almost 26 years now, not only have we made alot of tech advances since then the airframe itself is probably starting to wear from near constant use. But what do we know, Trump always knows best!
[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;51486590]I'd say it's on the same level as Insider Trading. Which is a [B]huge[/B] federal crime.[/QUOTE] It's only a huge federal crime if it's illegal. Congress is allowed to trade using insider information, and they do As for the president, well, I don't know if it extends past congress
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;51486538]I feel like using your position to create a public outcry and then buying stocks once that companies value drops is somewhere in the region of 'something the leader of the country really really shouldn't be doing'[/QUOTE] That tweet is from 2013.
[QUOTE=Trooper0315;51486606]We've had the current AF1 for almost 26 years now, not only have we made alot of tech advances since then the airframe itself is probably starting to wear from near constant use. But what do we know, Trump always knows best![/QUOTE] 26 years is no big thing. It's not that uncommon for commercial airliners to hit 30+ years of service. There's still DC-9's in service from the 60's
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;51486520]Did the taxpayers pay for Trump's penthouse? Why are you complaining?[/QUOTE] Because Air Force One is a worthwhile investment, and he's downplaying this project as "ridiculous" and saying it needs to be scrapped when in reality it's his own behavior that's ridiculous. And since you're going to bring "the taxpayers" argument up, he's a tax dodger (one of the biggest in American history, and he's completely unashamed of it), so he's fucking over the rest of us who pay our fair share. Why are you not also calling him out for that?
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51486171]Lets give the aircraft a literal golden parachute if it ever gets in trouble it can glide down to safety. No? but if it crashes we warned you... $1.65 billion pays for a lot of homeless overnight stays with a hot meal.[/QUOTE] But it won't. You know what DOES pay for a lot of homeless people? The president not getting assassinated by an FIM-92.
He tried invoking the same "the taxpayers" bullshit argument about this topic before as well (as those who read the OP will have noticed): [quote]In July he attacked President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton for using it on the campaign trial, calling it a "disgrace" and a waste of taxpayers' money. He added then: "Air Force One is a very old Boeing 747 and it sucks up a lot of gas, a lot of fuel. Boy, the fuel bill. You turn on those engines I can tell you it's a lot of money."[/quote] Again, it's hilarious because the man is a proven tax dodger who is fucking the rest of us over, he's not paying his fair share like we are-- a fact he likes to keep quiet about.
[QUOTE=OvB;51486101]I have a feeling that the two Air Force One jets have a crap load of top secret shit on them that we don't know about that inflates the price. I wouldn't be surprised if those things were armed with offensive and defensive weapons, plus full hospital, escape pods, survival gear, etc, etc.[/QUOTE] I watched a few documentaries about the Air Force One planes and they always said there was stuff on those planes that they were not allowed to talk about. It would be reasonable to presume that there is defensive capabilities on the aircraft given it transports the president. I also wouldn't be surprised if it could fight back too.
Knowing someone who was on the estimation team for this project, they actually wanted three planes, and they were to be [I]fully[/I] combat ready. Still overboard regardless, but I guess we don't know what Trump will be capable of, come 2017.
[QUOTE=Govna;51486764]Because Air Force One is a worthwhile investment, and he's downplaying this project as "ridiculous" and saying it needs to be scrapped when in reality it's his own behavior that's ridiculous. And since you're going to bring "the taxpayers" argument up, he's a tax dodger (one of the biggest in American history, and he's completely unashamed of it), so he's fucking over the rest of us who pay our fair share. Why are you not also calling him out for that?[/QUOTE] I thought it was understood. When you're at the top of a company you have people who help you cut expenses by using tax loopholes. Air force one is a $4b worthwhile investment?
[QUOTE=Amez;51486782]I watched a few documentaries about the Air Force One planes and they always said there was stuff on those planes that they were not allowed to talk about. It would be reasonable to presume that there is defensive capabilities on the aircraft given it transports the president. I also wouldn't be surprised if it could fight back too.[/QUOTE] I fear it can have as much bells and whistles it still wont be a perfect system, and i bet a well funded organisation with access to old soviet stuff could have a reasonable chance of taking it out... I dont know, maybe i am making the wrong calculation here but id think it would be safer and cheaper to have 4 or 5 cheaper planes in a fleet sent out in small groups used as needed and just hide the exact plane the president is on.
[QUOTE=Govna;51486780]He tried invoking the same "the taxpayers" bullshit argument about this topic before as well (as those who read the OP will have noticed): Again, it's hilarious because the man is a proven tax dodger who is fucking the rest of us over, he's not paying his fair share like we are-- a fact he likes to keep quiet about.[/QUOTE] The difference is Donald trump hasn't wasted taxpayer money on the campaign. Obama and Clinton have.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51486822]I fear it can have as much bells and whistles it still wont be a perfect system, and i bet a well funded organisation with access to old soviet stuff could have a reasonable chance of taking it out... I dont know, maybe i am making the wrong calculation here but id think it would be safer and cheaper to have 4 or 5 cheaper planes in a fleet sent out in small groups used as needed and just hide the exact plane the president is on.[/QUOTE] Missiles that lock on, we have flares for that. Manual Missiles, those can be evaded. Anti-Air weaponry, Air Force One wouldn't really be anywhere where that's an issue. Probable defensive and possible offensive capabilities definitely make sense. Shielding is for EMPs and wire-tapping. A small hospital area is useful as hell when it's one of the most powerful men on the planet. Air Force One is also meant to be a mobile headquarters if needed, so it makes sense that it's expensive to cover that. Not to mention like with weddings, you get enormously overcharged just because they can.
pres corpsssss
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;51486810]I thought it was understood. When you're at the top of a company you have people who help you cut expenses by using tax loopholes. Air force one is a $4b worthwhile investment?[/QUOTE] Morally and ethically, you should pay your fair share like everybody else has to. But he's neither a moral nor an ethical person, so that kind of behavior is hardly surprising. Having said that, he has forfeited all rights to make criticisms of projects around "the taxpayers" argument in so doing; he himself is not a taxpayer, he doesn't contribute to our country like the rest of us ordinary Americans have to, so there's no reason to listen to him or to care what he has to say. You must be ignorant of the function of Air Force One as well to not understand why we have to have it and why we have to keep it maintained and upgraded. Again, it's the mobile command center for the President of the United States. Air travel is part of being president whether anybody likes it or not; you have to be able to get around the country and the world quickly and safely. The reason why they want to replace the old VC-25A now with the 747-8 is because the former is not cost-effective anymore; it's outdated. So yeah, it's a worthwhile investment.
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;51486520]Did the taxpayers pay for Trump's penthouse? Why are you complaining?[/QUOTE] Yeah, you're right, no one who paid taxes paid for Trump's penthouse.
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;51486823]The difference is Donald trump hasn't wasted taxpayer money on the campaign. Obama and Clinton have.[/QUOTE] We're not talking about the campaign, we're talking in general. He is a tax dodger, he makes all these "but the taxpayers" arguments which are complete bullshit because he doesn't even pay his taxes like he should in the first place, and that's how simple it is. Also, apart from not paying, he has directly wasted taxpayer money. [url=http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/donald-trump-secret-service-campaign-travel-payments-228553]The Secret Service has had to pay him $1.6 million to provide their security through TAG Air[/url]. They also have to pay when they go with him to his hotels and properties. He does this deliberately so he can farm money from them, at our expense no less. You must be a sympathizer or a supporter of his to willingly ignore all of this. I was going to give you the benefit of a doubt, but I've seen and been in enough of these arguments to know how this goes.
[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;51486839]Missiles that lock on, we have flares for that. Manual Missiles, those can be evaded. Anti-Air weaponry, Air Force One wouldn't really be anywhere where that's an issue. Probable defensive and possible offensive capabilities definitely make sense. Shielding is for EMPs and wire-tapping. A small hospital area is useful as hell when it's one of the most powerful men on the planet. Air Force One is also meant to be a mobile headquarters if needed, so it makes sense that it's expensive to cover that. Not to mention like with weddings, you get enormously overcharged just because they can.[/QUOTE] Ive read some documents once concerning the theoretical use of the same surface to air missile used in the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 disaster on airforce one, and all of its known deterrents are completely insufficient. To the point that the paper jokingly suggested they would have to have a Phalanx anti missile system like often seen on aircraft carriers to have a shot at defending against them... and thats taking into account the Buk SAm usually carries 4 missiles with the capability of the missiles coordinating mid flight on a single target id say there is a reason airforce one rarely flies over hostile airspace.
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;51486520]At least we know Trump's presidency won't be wasting money on this unneeded expense [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] Did the taxpayers pay for Trump's penthouse? Why are you complaining?[/QUOTE] unneeded expense? this really shows how little you know about this program. and yea, taxpayers didn't pay for his penthouse, but he's also contributed nothing toward paying taxes, so its kinda ironic that he cares about them now.
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