GM closes 5 car factories, because people keep buying SUVs and Trucks instead - Polidicks

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51555369]Spoken like a [B]true bus rider[/B]. My '99 Montero Sport has been running strong for 8 years already. What's that bullshit about them having the life expectancy of a fly with polio, do you think every SUV is a shit-tier Land Rover?[/QUOTE] Get out. You gm fangirls aren't safe here either [t]http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2015/02/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-Nissan-GT-R-Nismo-Willow-Springs.jpg[/t] BEGONE! I wish hatches and wagons took off here in the US, (almost) nobody needs an SUV

And people ask me why I have a shit 2002 Grand Prix with 215,000 miles on the clock. A lot of people go and buy these new big vehicles on credit none the less and think they're cool. Nothing cool about a gas guzzling SUV with the debt to go along with it. I've only got student loan debt and I'll keep it that way. Status symbols are dumb.

I really like my 4runner and I've gotten a lot of utility from it by helping people move shit I even drove it across the country when i moved with all my shit in the back

[QUOTE=Dr.C;51557079]Get out. You gm fangirls aren't safe here either [t]http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2015/02/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-Nissan-GT-R-Nismo-Willow-Springs.jpg[/t] BEGONE! I wish hatches and wagons took off here in the US, (almost) nobody needs an SUV[/QUOTE] Wagons did....sixty years ago. Before the SUV became the momcar, it was the station wagon. People in America just got bored of them. Also, on the sports car blurb you posted: I'd rather have the Corvette on the basis it puts a bigger smile on my face than the Nissan. Couldnt care less if its a couple seconds slower. The point of owning a sporty car is the smile factor, and for me, domestic beats import every time.

maybe people would buy GM cars if they stopped releasing ones that look and function like they were squished down in a trash compactor (i.e. the Spark) and fed all the juices drained from the compactor to the camaro

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51555367]literally the only time that an SUV has ever gone offroad in america is when the soccer mom driving it drives up onto the sidewalk when she's picking up her kids from practice undeniably among the worst vehicles ever created, and with the life expectancy of a fly with polio[/QUOTE] Is this..... Uh, bait I guess? I'm saying this sitting next to a 4runner at work with 330k miles on it, that clearly has been mudded up somewhere today. SUVs are basically the best platforms available. Then again, you are in the UK. It may shock you to know other countries can manufacture a vehicle that can break 10k without literally falling apart. :v:

[QUOTE=evilweazel;51557169]Is this..... Uh, bait I guess? I'm saying this sitting next to a 4runner at work with 330k miles on it, that clearly has been mudded up somewhere today. SUVs are basically the best platforms available. Then again, you are in the UK. It may shock you to know other countries can manufacture a vehicle that can break 10k without literally falling apart. :v:[/QUOTE] the 4runner is the exception, not the rule most SUVs and CUVs made nowadays don't have locking diffs and skidplates as factory options and get more than 22mpg highway

[QUOTE=fishyfish777;51557182]the 4runner is the exception, not the rule most SUVs and CUVs made nowadays don't have locking diffs and skidplates as factory options and get more than 22mpg [/quote] I guess if we're talking new vehicles. If not.. Xterras. Durangos. (With the v8s at least) Suburbans / Trailblazers Exploders. Land Cruisers. Pathfinders. XJs. Plenty more I'm surely forgetting. All capable, all last for quite a while if you take care of them on the most basic level. Capability to price, actual SUVs are more or less the best if you want something reliable, easy to drive, etc.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51555367]literally the only time that an SUV has ever gone offroad in america is when the soccer mom driving it drives up onto the sidewalk when she's picking up her kids from practice undeniably among the worst vehicles ever created, and with the life expectancy of a fly with polio[/QUOTE] jeep cherokee xj would like a word with you

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;51555816]I don't know what BS your dealership sold you on, but Metal is more durable and recyclable than plastic. They use plastic to save money on manufacturing costs. As for "the most reliable", change a gearbox in one and get back to me. I wouldn't be surprised if they 3D printed Mazdas and rated them for 5 years next decade.[/QUOTE] Change a gearbox? How about live in 2016. Many manufacturers- including Ford, Buick, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, along others- use plastic manifolds. They are objectively better at their job than metal. Your claim that Mazda's are unreliable is unsubstantiated and refuted by many consumer reports. Maybe it's Australia that has you fucked up

I love my SUV for one reason in particular; I live in Minnesota. I've used a 4x4 for about 4 years now and I've never had to put on snow tires, simply because I have so much more control. Recently I moved over to a 2015 Jeep Patriot due to prices and because I was trying to stay in a newish car, I went with a FWD instead. But even still, I feel a lot safer moving around when people start driving like assholes like they always do every year. Plus, being able to haul around shit is a great thing for me. I like to either haul around my stuff since I'm on the go and go to a lot of conventions and such, and I like to be able to haul around my friends too for day to day stuff. And mechanical problems have been so far one to one. I had a perfect 2003 Chevy Tahoe that got totaled in a head on crash, and a terrible 2003 Chevy Trailblazer that had a problem every five minutes (and was worse in the cold, which is bad considering where I am.)

[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;51555345]Not only this, but trucks and utility vehicles are exempt from a lot of environmental regulations that cars undergo. That means they're cheaper than they should be, relative to the amount of vehicle you get. Combine that with cheap gas prices in the US and you have a market that's encouraged to adopt huge, gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs.[/QUOTE] You guys got your trucks, we got decated repro'd diesels that block out the sun with their exhaust smoke :v:...

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51555318]You wouldn't buy a Mazda3 or a Corolla to haul your family would you? SUVs nowadays are as efficient as ever anyways, just look at the Highlander Hybrid.[/QUOTE] Don't see why you wouldn't buy a mazda 3 or corolla to haul the family? They are big enough saloon cars

[QUOTE=evilweazel;51557169]Is this..... Uh, bait I guess? I'm saying this sitting next to a 4runner at work with 330k miles on it, that clearly has been mudded up somewhere today. SUVs are basically the best platforms available. Then again, you are in the UK. It may shock you to know other countries can manufacture a vehicle that can break 10k without literally falling apart. :v:[/QUOTE] Not bait so much as a touch of hyperbole to make a point. I'm gonna guess that most people in the US do not need an SUV - that doesn't mean you can't get good use out of yours, of course.

[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;51556253] [t]http://showcase.netins.net/web/dondeb/benz-rain.jpg[/t] Reliable, cheap, and quite possibly the only 1980's car with 30mpg+ ([B]240d version anyway[/B]).[/QUOTE] It also moves at a glacial pace, will be out-paced by a laden garbage truck, and simply cannot make left-hand turns when there's traffic. These things are a nuisance on the road.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51557251]Change a gearbox? How about live in 2016. Many manufacturers- including Ford, Buick, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, along others- use plastic manifolds. They are objectively better at their job than metal.[/quote] Come back ten or fifteen years from now when the damned thing has to be replaced because the bolt holes holding the fuel rails to it stripped out, or it cracked because of brittle old plastic syndrome. Want proof? Here's an example from a car that was tasked with keeping you safe from crime(Incidentally one of these ticking time bombs is in my driveway and I'm putting an all aluminum replacement on when it does let go). [quote=http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/185]The plastic manifold used on these 4.6L engines tend to split across the front, and break in the rear, without warning. Often this will occur with out previous symptoms. Other times a slow coolant loss may precede the failure. When the intake fails, the engine coolant pours out, and the engine quickly overheats. [/quote] Plastic is not, never has been, and never will be suitable for the intake manifold of an automobile engine. The environment is too harsh. There's too much vibration, there's too many hot-and-cold cycles, too many piping hot, reactive chemicals flying around, too much mechanical load on the part. You [i]need[/i] metal here. Will plastic work? Sure....for a while. But here's the rub: Plastic intake fails after 10-15 years, metal intake lasts the life of the engine, and often, ends up lasting the life of another one. And another one. Depends on how many times it goes through the scrapyard cycle before getting melted down and turned into other things. Many manufacturers use plastic manifolds because they're cheaper to make and last long enough for the car to change hands/the warranty to expire. For all they care the damned thing can throw a rod half a mile after the second person buys it. They don't care, they got that initial sale, it lasted through warranty...and why would they care? They make more money catering to people's 'replace it as soon as the payments end' mentality of car buying than they do building cars that double as heirlooms, and to do that, they need to reduce costs as much as possible. Hence plastic intakes. They probably also make a decent chunk of money selling parts that shouldn't be needing replacement for second-hand buyers. It's a symptom of the larger 'consumption mindset' modern society has. Nobody wants anything built to last, be that a car, a toaster, a computer, whatever. People are used to 'buy, use for a handful of years, discard, buy again', and the markets of literally everything we touch have responded. That's why I've gone through 6 or 7 microwaves in 10 years, when our previous one was over 20 years old when it finally conked. We live in a disposable society and it's so pervasive even our cars are falling victim. [quote] Your claim that Mazda's are unreliable is unsubstantiated and refuted by many consumer reports.[/quote] Consumer reports don't give you a true taste of whether or not a car is reliable because they're written by first-owners that bought new and sell it off as soon as it's out of warranty. Of course those people are gonna call it reliable, it's designed to live that long. Carmakers figured out how to extract 5-6 years of reliable service out of a car in the late 1930s, back when having four wheel hydraulic brakes was still a selling point. The real test is whether or not a car still works 20 years from now. THAT is how you know whether or not a car is reliable. A properly built, reliable, well made car will last well beyond the warranty, well beyond its first owner, with little more than the routine maintenance any car requires. We won't know how reliable any MY2016 cars are until 2036.

I can't take your posts seriously because you hate anything that has to do with new tech in vehicles. Edit. If you're going through that many microwaves in 10 years, you're the problem. I've had exactly one microwave in the last ten years. 1. And that was bought brand new. 15 years is plenty of life for any non-combustion piece. Why dont you complain about spark plugs, brake pads, tires, rotors, alternators, etc. Its f i n e.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51558905]I can't take your posts seriously because you hate anything that has to do with new tech in vehicles.[/QUOTE] Lol, I put out a perfectly valid counterpoint and this is the best you can come up with? Try again. If you're so sure you know better then prove it. Show me. Show everyone. Otherwise, concede. I provided concrete evidence of a very popular car and one that's still to this day relied on by law enforcement worldwide that resulted in lawsuits of plastic intakes being shit, give me proof that they're not. Also, nice falsehood. I don't hate anything that has to do with new tech in vehicles. I quite like how modern suspension systems make them handle, I quite like modern radios that can bluetooth to phones and double as built-in satnav, can show engine vitals, et-al. I quite like modern seats, they're far more comfortable than yesteryear's, modern brake linings, and it is rather amazing how much power they can coax out of a tiny little engine. Nice ad-hominem, though, I totally don't like anything modern. Yeah. Sure. Right.

No it's well known you don't like new tech/vehicles [editline]20th December 2016[/editline] Just don't buy a new vehicle ever. Then you'll never have to see plastic manifolds

Manufacturers do have some incentive to make long lasting cars. Resale value. A car that holds up better is going to hold its value better, and thus more people are likely to buy it because they can get more back when they sell it.

[QUOTE=Morgen;51558967]Manufacturers do have some incentive to make long lasting cars. Resale value. A car that holds up better is going to hold its value better, and thus more people are likely to buy it because they can get more back when they sell it.[/QUOTE] On the other hand, people are also likely to buy a car when their old one breaks down entirely, and automakers make quite a lot of money on spare parts for those who do repair the vehicles. (like, to the point that the division that makes the spare parts can become self-sufficient when the car production divisions are actually failing)

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51558523]Depends on what you're doing, and how big of a family you have. If you have 3 kids.. it's fucking nightmare fuel to travel longer than 5 minutes with everyone crammed into a corolla. Hell it's almost nightmare fuel just trying to have 2 kids in the back seat of a corolla...[/QUOTE] How often are people having 3 kids though? 2 kids will fit fine. However, you have super spoiled kids that need 2 meters of room and an ipad and built in car wifi to shut up, then perhaps it is nightmare fuel.

Someone I know has a 90's Hilux that has been all the way to Russia and it's the most fucking terrifying thing I've ever ridden in because pretty much all of its shocks have gone. I'm pretty sure it was a mob technical at some point. [editline]21st December 2016[/editline] My uncle used to have a fuckoff huge 4-door pickup with what he dubbed 'vampire killer' lightbars on it, too. My best memory of it was being driven around on the hunt for my eldest brother after he was supposedly stabbed while my uncle hotboxed with Pall Mall Reds and blared Metallica. Turns out my brother had just gotten drunk and passed out in a bus stop with his trousers down trying to take a piss. I love pickups.

I'd always have a SUV or truck simply because of the utility it offers. Ability to haul shit, carry all my tools, tow shit, and to top it off a comfortable ride is great. I mean, sure if you have 4WD then god damn use it and don't be a soccer mom with it. Now if I were getting a car on the other hand I'm getting nothing less than a hybrid or EV

[QUOTE=Morgen;51558967]Manufacturers do have some incentive to make long lasting cars. Resale value. A car that holds up better is going to hold its value better, and thus more people are likely to buy it because they can get more back when they sell it.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you mentioned "some." Because yeah, this is one thing that sometimes works out, and sometimes the opposite becomes the incentive.

[QUOTE=Ajacks;51556327]You have better visibility in a more commanding higher driving position,One thing is that, in my area here in Indiana,[/quote] Which you would go for because of other mongs in giant 4X4s blocking the vision of every car smaller than them. Gets really annoying trying to turn left at a lightless T-intersection (would be turning right in the case of almost the rest of the world), and some cunt rolls up to turn right and this is all I can see: [img]http://i.imgur.com/79NLbO0.jpg[/img] Or when I'm trying to reverse out of a parking spot and this is all I can see [img]http://i.imgur.com/Vw8sjGe.jpg[/img] Because I made the 'stupid' mistake of realising that a big fucking 4x4 is useless in a Suburban/Metro area and that I was better off owning a VW Golf instead. [editline]21st December 2016[/editline] Again, I have no problem with people who use their 4X4 for a legit purpose, such as carrying loads of shit for work or whatever or actually going 4X4ing but it's people who use it just for the purpose of driving their two kids to school or going grocery shopping that piss me off, and that's what I see most people using it for.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51558905]I can't take your posts seriously because you hate anything that has to do with new tech in vehicles. Edit. If you're going through that many microwaves in 10 years, you're the problem. I've had exactly one microwave in the last ten years. 1. And that was bought brand new. 15 years is plenty of life for any non-combustion piece. [B]Why dont you complain about spark plugs, brake pads, tires, rotors, alternators, etc.[/B] Its f i n e.[/QUOTE] because manufacturers aren't going from superior to inferior materials/construction/etc with those parts.

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559642]because manufacturers aren't going from superior to inferior materials/construction/etc with those parts.[/QUOTE] Except the plastics are better than the metal they replaced, save the "fear" of them not being as durable. Plastic manifolds are here to stay (shouldnt even call them plastics since theres quite a bit in there).

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51559664]Except the plastics are better than the metal they replaced, save the "fear" of them not being as durable. Plastic manifolds are here to stay (shouldnt even call them plastics since theres quite a bit in there).[/QUOTE] Metals have much better mechanical properties than plastics. So no, they are not better.

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559731]Metals have much better mechanical properties than plastics. So no, they are not better.[/QUOTE] Except metal has burrs and imperfections with their casting process. [editline]20th December 2016[/editline] But you're obviously an automotive engineer and there is no better alternative to cast iron or aluminum