GM closes 5 car factories, because people keep buying SUVs and Trucks instead - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559731]Metals have much better mechanical properties than plastics. So no, they are not better.[/QUOTE] I guess that's why F1 cars are made out of metal, right?

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51559745]Except metal has burrs and imperfections with their casting process. [editline]20th December 2016[/editline] But you're obviously an automotive engineer and there is no better alternative to cast iron or aluminum[/QUOTE] What do burrs have to do with the mechanical properties? And there's only going to be burrs and imperfections if you're a sloppy/inexperienced manufacturer. (also plastic parts get burrs too) [QUOTE=Headhumpy;51559757]I guess that's why F1 cars are made out of metal, right?[/QUOTE] No because F1 cars are made with a totally different set of design goals, and on [I]vastly[/I] higher budgets. Consumer cars don't cost >$2m.

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559802]What do burrs have to do with the mechanical properties? And there's only going to be burrs and imperfections if you're a sloppy/inexperienced manufacturer. No because F1 cars are made with a totally different set of design goals, and on [I]vastly[/I] higher budgets. Consumer cars don't cost >$2m.[/QUOTE] If plastics can do the same job for a lower price and weigh less to boot, why not use them?

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51559745]Except metal has burrs and imperfections with their casting process. [editline]20th December 2016[/editline] But you're obviously an automotive engineer and there is no better alternative to cast iron or aluminum[/QUOTE] You can actually find [I]several[/I] articles on SAE dating back to 1993-ish that support that plastic intake manifolds are not only better than metal, but they provide 5-10% better performance at half the weight

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559731]Metals have much better mechanical properties than plastics. So no, they are not better.[/QUOTE] That is a very broad and sweeping statement to make, and isn't correct in the slightest unless you start narrowing things down significantly for a case by case basis.

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559802]No because F1 cars are made with a totally different set of design goals, and on [I]vastly[/I] higher budgets. Consumer cars don't cost >$2m.[/QUOTE] What you see in F1 eventually makes it to the consumer market. Thats the point of F1. To push automotive engineering.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51559805]If plastics can do the same job for a lower price and weigh less to boot, why not use them?[/QUOTE] Inferior mechanical and fatigue properties. [QUOTE=Code3Response;51559809]You can actually find [I]several[/I] articles on SAE dating back to 1993-ish that support that plastic intake manifolds are not only better than metal, but they provide 5-10% better performance at half the weight[/QUOTE] Everything has pros and cons. Plastic may be able to provide slightly better performance but they have poorer fatigue properties than Al or Fe. Likewise Al or Fe will last far longer/indefinitely but they weigh more and have slightly less performance. As a side note, I'm sure the reason for the performance gain has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with the shape of the intake passages. Also, source on those articles? [QUOTE=Ogopogo;51559811]That is a very broad and sweeping statement to make, and isn't correct in the slightest unless you start narrowing things down significantly for a case by case basis.[/QUOTE] It should be obvious that I'm talking about automotive materials, ie Al, Fe, and non-exotic plastics

[QUOTE=Pelf;51559854] Everything has pros and cons. Plastic may be able to provide slightly better performance but they have poorer fatigue properties than Al or Fe. Likewise Al or Fe will last far longer/indefinitely but they weigh more and have slightly less performance. As a side note, I'm sure the reason for the performance gain has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with the shape of the intake passages. Also, source on those articles?[/QUOTE] Its on SAE. Just search plastic intake manifold.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51555318]You wouldn't buy a Mazda3 or a Corolla to haul your family would you? SUVs nowadays are as efficient as ever anyways, just look at the Highlander Hybrid.[/QUOTE] No, I'd buy a Mazda 6. It's faster than a SUV, more agile, more reliable, more stable, cheaper than comparable SUVs, and doesn't have fucking A and D-pillars of doom that gives it huge blindspots like literally every SUV has. Unless you explicitly need the room or towing capability, SUVs are inferior to cars in just about every metric. And hell, you can get some cars in wagon form which are just as spacious as a SUV.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51558905]I can't take your posts seriously because you hate anything that has to do with new tech in vehicles.[/QUOTE] Are you for real? What a cop out.

[QUOTE=Araknid;51559587]Which you would go for because of other mongs in giant 4X4s blocking the vision of every car smaller than them. Gets really annoying trying to turn left at a lightless T-intersection (would be turning right in the case of almost the rest of the world), and some cunt rolls up to turn right and this is all I can see: [img]http://i.imgur.com/79NLbO0.jpg[/img] Or when I'm trying to reverse out of a parking spot and this is all I can see [img]http://i.imgur.com/Vw8sjGe.jpg[/img] Because I made the 'stupid' mistake of realising that a big fucking 4x4 is useless in a Suburban/Metro area and that I was better off owning a VW Golf instead. [editline]21st December 2016[/editline] Again, I have no problem with people who use their 4X4 for a legit purpose, such as carrying loads of shit for work or whatever or actually going 4X4ing but it's people who use it just for the purpose of driving their two kids to school or going grocery shopping that piss me off, and that's what I see most people using it for.[/QUOTE] I live in a suburb and don't have problems with bigass silverados or even those huge nissan minivans when reversing in a parking lot or at an intersection. Or you could, y'know not accelerate at 40kmh when you can't see anything? Maybe cars are somehow different outside of america

[QUOTE=ColdAsRice;51560504]I live in a suburb and don't have problems with bigass silverados or even those huge nissan minivans when reversing in a parking lot or at an intersection. Or you could, y'know not accelerate at 40kmh when you can't see anything? Maybe cars are somehow different outside of america[/QUOTE] Roads in a lot of countries are much more compact than the USAs.

I don't understand all the hate for SUVs in this thread. I have an '06 Toyota RAV4, it's decently fuel efficient, not that large, has a ton of cargo space, decent ground clearance, and so much more. I live in the Appalachian region of New England and having four wheel drive isn't a bonus it's a necessity. A midsize SUV is a great investment and I can drive on all the sketchy dirt paths they call roads up here without worrying like I would in a sedan.

[QUOTE=Blitzkreig;51560813]I don't understand all the hate for SUVs in this thread. I have an '06 Toyota RAV4, it's decently fuel efficient, not that large, has a ton of cargo space, decent ground clearance, and so much more. I live in the Appalachian region of New England and having four wheel drive isn't a bonus it's a necessity. A midsize SUV is a great investment and I can drive on all the sketchy dirt paths they call roads up here without worrying like I would in a sedan.[/QUOTE]I don't imagine anyone here is against someone owning an SUV who has a genuine need for one, but if you're getting one and don't ever leave the confines of a city for example, that's a bit of a waste.

[QUOTE=ColdAsRice;51560504]I live in a suburb and don't have problems with bigass silverados or even those huge nissan minivans when reversing in a parking lot or at an intersection. Or you could, y'know not accelerate at 40kmh when you can't see anything? Maybe cars are somehow different outside of america[/QUOTE] I wasn't saying that it prevents me from being able to drive, it's just annoying is all.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;51561091]I don't imagine anyone here is against someone owning an SUV who has a genuine need for one, but if you're getting one and don't ever leave the confines of a city for example, that's a bit of a waste.[/QUOTE] Right, it's somewhat like owning a 13 bedroom house. If you have a dozen children, and you want each to have a bedroom, you build a 13 bedroom house. But what are you doing owning a 13 bedroom house if you have one kid? (still not the same because by every suburban family owning a comparative monster truck, it's a headache for everyone else on the road)

[QUOTE=Morgen;51558967]Manufacturers do have some incentive to make long lasting cars. Resale value. A car that holds up better is going to hold its value better, and thus more people are likely to buy it because they can get more back when they sell it.[/QUOTE] Wrong. Manufacturers have an incentive to make cars that will last 5-6 years if serviced regularly at the main dealer. This means they can sell them with "discounts" on PCP deals, make the consumer pay a deposit and a low monthly at 6-10% APR. They make money through a. this forces consumers onto the deal to get the "best price (VW offering £3250 off list for example)" b. their own finance division does the lending, so they make a healthy profit on the interest. Then when the deal is done 3 years later, the car is returned through their dealer network at the guaranteed future value price, meaning they effectively "fix" the resale value of the car - this also gives the dealer network a steady supply of both new sales and 3 year used cars that have been properly maintained. After they sell them with a years warranty as approved used cash they couldn't give a shit what happens to the car because it's no longer making money for anyone. If sold on finance, the agreement will end at 2-3 years max and it just needs to limp through that to satisfy everyone. After 6 years, who cares? It'll have 70,000 miles and the cycle will begin again. It's been driven like shit by the first owner "meh, it's not my car, they take it back, i don't need to make it last" and then sold at extortionate APR on the used market.

[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;51556253]I swear the older cherokees are made of the same crap they built the pyramids and roman buildings from because I see more of those things on the road and on craiglists (running!) than any other jeep ever (minus the patriot maybe, although I may be biased because my family owns one). [t]http://showcase.netins.net/web/dondeb/benz-rain.jpg[/t] Reliable, cheap, and quite possibly the only 1980's car with 30mpg+ (240d version anyway).[/QUOTE] I own and run one of the rare wagon types of this! :D [t]http://i.imgur.com/2tyAchx.jpg[/t] [editline]edit[/editline] [quotE=Saber15;51558619]It also moves at a glacial pace, will be out-paced by a laden garbage truck, and simply cannot make left-hand turns when there's traffic. These things are a nuisance on the road.[/quote] D: I'll admit most of these aren't very fast but do you not see any happiness in a nice classic car? My feelings!

[QUOTE=Jackpody;51565062]I own and run one of the rare wagon types of this! :D [t]http://i.imgur.com/2tyAchx.jpg[/t] [editline]edit[/editline] D: I'll admit most of these aren't very fast but do you not see any happiness in a nice classic car? My feelings![/QUOTE] Hey, I think they are cool. Mostly because I've never seen one IRL.

[QUOTE=PsycheClops;51555309]I've never really bought SUV nor trucks, but I'm assuming that it's because of maybe I'm guessing its cheaper parts in maybe maintenance compared to more efficient (and arguably luxurious) cars?[/QUOTE] I'd say using one car to carry 6 people and luggage is more efficient than three cars with two each. [editline]a[/editline] And I mean tbh 35 mpg isn't exactly bad. [editline]22nd December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt Doom;51561091]I don't imagine anyone here is against someone owning an SUV who has a genuine need for one, but if you're getting one and don't ever leave the confines of a city for example, that's a bit of a waste.[/QUOTE] Not if you like being able to see over fuckhuge trucks at intersections of when you're leaving a business.

[QUOTE=Amez;51555358]I'm surprised that people are even buying GM vehicles period. They are quite honestly nothing but garbage. The local Chevy dealership near me had an ad posted "Do you have a recalled 2014 Chevy? Trade it in for a new 2015 Chevy!" They themselves know that they are shit.[/QUOTE] GM killed Saab and I hate them for it but my Saturn and my Pontiac were the two most reliable cars I owned