• Researchers unravel mechanism that plays key role in sexual differentiation of brain
    100 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;47444081]But then who will the homophobes bash and murder for their self esteem?[/QUOTE] themselves? This whole discovery raises a whole lot of questions, like why do people have certain sexual interests, and what else about our genetics influences our preferences
[QUOTE=PelPix123;47443103]This is a little terrifying. If this is true, then couldn't this be used to 'cure' transgender and gay people of their 'condition'? Both homosexuality and transsexuality are due in part to this process happening 'incorrectly'. If science can re-happen it now, doesn't that mean that transgenderism and homosexuality could be reversed? If this tech gets into the hands of some genuinely evil people, we could see the utter extinction of the LGBT community.[/QUOTE] Or, on a less horrific and depressing note, they can use it to fully switch the minds of transgendered people to the gender they identify as. Since, it seems like, transgendered people have the 'switch' less towards their identifying gender as it is in people biologically of that gender.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;47443103]This is a little terrifying. If this is true, then couldn't this be used to 'cure' transgender and gay people of their 'condition'? Both homosexuality and transsexuality are due in part to this process happening 'incorrectly'. If science can re-happen it now, doesn't that mean that transgenderism and homosexuality could be reversed? If this tech gets into the hands of some genuinely evil people, we could see the utter extinction of the LGBT community.[/QUOTE] Would this hypothetical cure be such a bad thing, assuming it were only administered by request? While there's nothing morally wrong with gender identity disorders, they have been known cause a lot of anguish, confusion, and self loathing for the people who have them. The suicide rate is shocking. While the best approach is to embrace yourself for who you are and live your life in the way that makes you most comfortable, that is easier said than done. Feeling like a stranger in your own body, and seeing that false representation of how you feel in the mirror every day, has to be very difficult, especially if faced with ridicule and ostracization for it. I imagine that many transgender people would celebrate the idea of a treatment that could alter their chemistry in such a way that they no longer felt conflicted without otherwise having negative emotional impacts. While it would be horrifying to force that treatment on people, as you suggest, having the treatment available seems like it would be a massive boon and major breakthrough.
finally i can truly be gay
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47444323]Would this hypothetical cure be such a bad thing, assuming it were only administered by request? While there's nothing morally wrong with gender identity disorders, they have been known cause a lot of anguish, confusion, and self loathing for the people who have them. The suicide rate is shocking. While the best approach is to embrace yourself for who you are and live your life in the way that makes you most comfortable, that is easier said than done. Feeling like a stranger in your own body, and seeing that false representation of how you feel in the mirror every day, has to be very difficult, especially if faced with ridicule and ostracization for it. I imagine that many transgender people would celebrate the idea of a treatment that could alter their chemistry in such a way that they no longer felt conflicted without otherwise having negative emotional impacts. While it would be horrifying to force that treatment on people, as you suggest, having the treatment available seems like it would be a massive boon and major breakthrough.[/QUOTE] The mere existence of the cure could very easily make oppression for LGBT people worse because it would normalize it as something that [i]should[/i] be cured. This is an attitude that lots of people fought for decades to get out of the mainstream, let's not open the doors to bringing it back.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47444549]The mere existence of the cure could very easily make oppression for LGBT people worse because it would normalize it as something that [i]should[/i] be cured. This is an attitude that lots of people fought for decades to get out of the mainstream, let's not open the doors to bringing it back.[/QUOTE] I knew, the second I read this, that someone would come up with this point. Is the current "cure" for dysmorphia not also a reason for discrimination as it is a method of solving the problem and thusly is also a reason to discriminate against people as it is? you can shift the goal posts all you want, but this isn't an evil creation and the only people who would use it as a reason to hate anyone, already have every reason they need to be hateful. This pisses me off because this is a legitimate(perhaps) way to deal with this problem and help people, giving them more options for help. But of course the default response of the leftest of the left is that it's vile and a gateway to hate. I knew that would happen.
I finally come to terms with my "dysphoria" and now it turns out it coulda been reversed? Haha, oh wow. Too late now, I already learned to love myself.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;47443103]This is a little terrifying. If this is true, then couldn't this be used to 'cure' transgender and gay people of their 'condition'? Both homosexuality and transsexuality are due in part to this process happening 'incorrectly'. If science can re-happen it now, doesn't that mean that transgenderism and homosexuality could be reversed? If this tech gets into the hands of some genuinely evil people, we could see the utter extinction of the LGBT community.[/QUOTE] Might be enforced if the birth rate is low.
sad that people are just going to use this as an excuse to hate gay people and say "lol it can be cured don't be a SJW you faggot" as a quick le epic zinger but really, who cares about those people
[QUOTE=bitches;47443951]"i don't know what human rights are"[/QUOTE] I know perfectly well what human rights are, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to go invading countries who practice eugenics when we don't invade countries for practicing genocide or oppressing their people in other ways. Apparently it's where it risks a certain demographic we all have to immediately get concerned and invasion is justified against a country. What if popular view is against invasion? Do we contravene democracy or lean on the free press in order to support this invasion? [QUOTE=Matthew0505;47444240]Are you for real or is this some subtle jab at democracy?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that if we wanted to go to war with every country oppressing gay people, then quite a few African countries would be in the process of being invaded right now.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47444323]Would this hypothetical cure be such a bad thing, assuming it were only administered by request? While there's nothing morally wrong with gender identity disorders, they have been known cause a lot of anguish, confusion, and self loathing for the people who have them. The suicide rate is shocking. While the best approach is to embrace yourself for who you are and live your life in the way that makes you most comfortable, that is easier said than done. Feeling like a stranger in your own body, and seeing that false representation of how you feel in the mirror every day, has to be very difficult, especially if faced with ridicule and ostracization for it. I imagine that many transgender people would celebrate the idea of a treatment that could alter their chemistry in such a way that they no longer felt conflicted without otherwise having negative emotional impacts. While it would be horrifying to force that treatment on people, as you suggest, having the treatment available seems like it would be a massive boon and major breakthrough.[/QUOTE] I don't think it would be easy to decide to give up the identity you've had inside your whole life. Medical advancement continues to be made to help the transgendered, without changing their [I]minds[/I]. As a gay man, I'd never want to give it up. It doesn't cause any harm to me that isn't the fault of others. While transgenderism causes a lot of dangerous dysphoria, it seems to me that a better solution is a society that accepts people for who they are and provides the necessary medical care.
[QUOTE=Nak;47443721]That comment is precise the problem. People who mark gay as a disease. I got nothing against the development, but people who are still stuck in 1973 might abuse this to force a gender onto their kids. We can see countless examples of parents stuffing their kids with bleach, cause 1 ex-doctor said it might cure Alzheimer. I can only see the positive if doctors are the only one, who can access and 'treat' people over 18. The problem is not being gay .. the problem are [b]people[/b] who [b]mark[/b] it as a problem. Being gay is as natural as a being straight. Even animals know that.[/QUOTE] Dude. Gay is not a decease, but nobody chooses to be gay either. Giving people the ability to choose to be straight if they want and escape a life full of problems would be great. That's what i mean. Also, of course being gay is natural, but its still a deviation.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47444596]I knew, the second I read this, that someone would come up with this point. Is the current "cure" for dysmorphia not also a reason for discrimination as it is a method of solving the problem and thusly is also a reason to discriminate against people as it is? you can shift the goal posts all you want, but this isn't an evil creation and the only people who would use it as a reason to hate anyone, already have every reason they need to be hateful. This pisses me off because this is a legitimate(perhaps) way to deal with this problem and help people, giving them more options for help. But of course the default response of the leftest of the left is that it's vile and a gateway to hate. I knew that would happen.[/QUOTE] The current cure for dysmorphia is not a suggestion that someone's sense of self is wrong, it's a suggestion that their physical body is wrong. It's not the same. The effectiveness of current treatments (mental vs physical) for dysmorphia clearly show which one of those two things we hold more closely. It's also really asinine that you jump straight to the "dumb lefty leftists" bullshit. This isn't some sort of left-wing conspiracy to suppress people, it's an acknowledgement that maybe we should change the bigots before we start trying to change their victims to suit the bigots' whims. [editline]2nd April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47445558]Dude. Gay is not a decease, but nobody chooses to be gay either. Giving people the ability to choose to be straight if they want and escape a life full of problems would be great. That's what i mean. Also, of course being gay is natural, but its still a deviation.[/QUOTE] A deviation from what? There are thousands of species that exhibit homosexuality. By your definition of deviation, being white is a deviation. [editline]2nd April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;47444655]sad that people are just going to use this as an excuse to hate gay people and say "lol it can be cured don't be a SJW you faggot" as a quick le epic zinger but really, who cares about those people[/QUOTE] I apparently cared because I'm still replying, but that's on me
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47445738]The current cure for dysmorphia is not a suggestion that someone's sense of self is wrong, it's a suggestion that their physical body is wrong. It's not the same. The effectiveness of current treatments (mental vs physical) for dysmorphia clearly show which one of those two things we hold more closely.[/QUOTE] So we either change their body, or we change their brain, I don't see the huge difference here in terms of self conceptions and dysmorphia. Maybe someone wants to change their brain rather than their body, is that wrong? [QUOTE]]It's also really asinine that you jump straight to the "dumb lefty leftists" bullshit. This isn't some sort of left-wing conspiracy to suppress people, it's an acknowledgement that maybe we should change the bigots before we start trying to change their victims to suit the bigots' whims. [/QUOTE] Yes, we should change bigots before we change victims. Where did I say the contrary? You really, REALLY are going to have to point that out as more than some form of "Subtext" to my post to make me think that. This isn't about people changing themselves to suit bigots whims. This has nothing to do with that unless, you spin it to be like that. Which you have done. Which is where my "Lefty" comment comes in. This is about giving people options and choices. If people hate them for having those choices as to how to deal with their problem of being gender dysmorphic, then wouldn't it be more reasonable to say they were already hateful people and we really aren't helping the people with the problem by buckling to the idea that a "cure" isn't as valid a treatment as what we do now when both are voluntary? Bigots are bigots and we should try to change them. This isn't a way to try and change them though.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47445896]So we either change their body, or we change their brain, I don't see the huge difference here in terms of self conceptions and dysmorphia. Maybe someone wants to change their brain rather than their body, is that wrong?[/quote] Sure, if they want to. Read my first post and see that I never came remotely close to suggesting that this should be banned. I didn't even say that it WILL cause problems, I said that it COULD because I BELIEVE it will. In the end, people's right to bodily autonomy should always take precedent regardless of what kind of collateral damage it might cause, but I'm just saying that I really strongly believe that this course will lead to a lot of collateral damage and that the better way to "cure" LGBT people is to change society's expectations of them. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47445896]If people hate them for having those choices as to how to deal with their problem of being gender dysmorphic, then wouldn't it be more reasonable to say they were already hateful people and we really aren't helping the people with the problem by buckling to the idea that a "cure" isn't as valid a treatment as what we do now when both are voluntary?[/quote] I'm not saying people might hate them for having this choice, I'm saying that people who hate them will now have two reasons to hate them: who they are, and the fact that they didn't choose to "cure" themselves. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47445896]Bigots are bigots and we should try to change them. This isn't a way to try and change them though.[/QUOTE] Of course we should, nobody is born a bigot. It's an education issue. (Edit: misread should as shouldn't, not going to just erase though)
[QUOTE=Deng;47443521]Well considering the circumstances the Germans were in they would have probably used them anyways by the time the Americans got involved. The USSR would have almost certainly have deployed them in an offensive role at some stage too if they had them. If a future country went out and started practicing eugenics, then who are we to invade it? As long as the party gained power through free and fair elections, while the policy held widespread popular support within that nation, I don't think it's our right to go invading that place.[/QUOTE] so basically you're saying that it's ok for 25% of the population to be marginalized out of the gene pool because 75% think its ok there's a reason that 'minority rights' is just as much a component of democracy as 'majority rule'
[QUOTE=joes33431;47446318]so basically you're saying that it's ok for 25% of the population to be marginalized out of the gene pool because 75% think its ok there's a reason that 'minority rights' is just as much a component of democracy as 'majority rule'[/QUOTE] Not saying that. I'm saying it's hard pressed to justify an invasion of such a country. Russia has been shitting on minorities lately, but there has been a notable absence of invasions of Russia to protect those minorities.
The problem I see is that it may give the already small amount of insurance companies that cover HRT an excuse to turn around and start only covering this 'cure'. "Both cure dysmorphia, so what's the problem?", when one changes someone's body while the other changes their mind. As an [I]option[/I] there's nothing wrong with it, but the problem is that it might make the other option harder to choose than it already is.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;47446384]That's because of MAD[/QUOTE] How come we haven't invaded the African countries (like Uganda) which oppress LGBT people then? Homosexuality in Iran and Saudi Arabia both carry the death penalty.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47445558]Dude. Gay is not a decease, but nobody chooses to be gay either. Giving people the ability to choose to be straight if they want [b]and escape a life full of problems would be great[/b]. That's what i mean.[/QUOTE] In your posts you are indicating that "discrimination, acceptance and self hate problems" and "life full of problems" was a cause of being gay. Try to change "gay/straight" in your post out with any form of discrimination to see how intolerant your post was. You where literately separating "gay" and "male". [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47445558]Giving people the ability to choose to be <Insert any discrimination> if they want and escape a life full of problems would be great.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47445558]Also, of course being gay is natural, but its still a deviation.[/QUOTE] It is narrow-minded to say that anyone who're a 'deviation' from a stereotypical human should change. We all got different characteristics. Evolution takes care of that.
I wonder if they could something like this to help pedophiles and zoophiles.
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;47446525]I wonder if they could something like this to help pedophiles and zoophiles.[/QUOTE] As paedophilia isn't a sex, I doubt it. There's already quite a lot that we can do to help people with legitimately harmful sexual deviances. Unfortunately, we also seem to despise them as a society just because they exist, so understandably they're not so willing to seek treatment.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;47446344]Nobody is saying trans people shouldn't be allowed to pick this if they want to, just that it opens the door to being forced into it unless legislation or court case happens specifically banning third parties from deciding for the patient. As the law is right now, if this were a viable procedure today, in the US, a parent would be legally allowed to make their 16 year old gay son/trans daughter to go through this involuntarily. It wouldn't become illegal until a case brought against the parents by the child reached the supreme court. That's how American law works.[/QUOTE] Exactly, see what's happening with gay conversion therapy. Only a few states have outright banned forcing minors into it despite all current medical science proving it to be nothing more than torture. Even if it did work, what a disgusting thing to force onto your child. But regardless, adults can march headlong into all the bad medical science they want.
[QUOTE=Deng;47446437]How come we haven't invaded the African countries (like Uganda) which oppress LGBT people then? Homosexuality in Iran and Saudi Arabia both carry the death penalty.[/QUOTE] It is perfectly great [I]justification[/I] to invade, but we don't because: we prefer to look after our own country and allies instead of sending our own to die; apathy we can't agree on anything governmentally, it isn't profitable unless a unique social status made it a voting move (in which reasons 1 and 2 would not be present) lastly, invading other countries ends up making things worse unless you obliterate the current government entirely, which doesn't work anyway if the governmental structure is loose (like the middle east where puppet governments identically replace any that die, unlike something so structured as nazi germany) but we can't simply say "oh the majority wants it so we shouldn't care"
[QUOTE=Deng;47446347]Not saying that. I'm saying it's hard pressed to justify an invasion of such a country. Russia has been shitting on minorities lately, but there has been a notable absence of invasions of Russia to protect those minorities.[/QUOTE] ah i see, i misunderstood.
[QUOTE=TheFifthWheel;47443135]I'm sure the majority of trans people you ask would rather not have been born trans and have to go through the pain and dissatisfaction of a sex change. I bet if this operation were cheaper than a sex reassignment surgery a lot of people would just opt to cure their body dysmorphia.[/QUOTE] idk if I had the choice I would still choose to be trans it's a part of who I am and I strongly dislike the idea of getting rid of it, just like I would hate to get rid of any other major parts of my identity
[QUOTE=bitches;47447943]It is perfectly great [I]justification[/I] to invade, but we don't because: we prefer to look after our own country and allies instead of sending our own to die; apathy we can't agree on anything governmentally, it isn't profitable unless a unique social status made it a voting move (in which reasons 1 and 2 would not be present) lastly, invading other countries ends up making things worse unless you obliterate the current government entirely, which doesn't work anyway if the governmental structure is loose (like the middle east where puppet governments identically replace any that die, unlike something so structured as nazi germany) but we can't simply say "oh the majority wants it so we shouldn't care"[/QUOTE] I'm still not convinced. It just sounds like hypocrisy to me.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;47449598]There's a difference between having a terrible human rights record and being worth going to war over.[/QUOTE] So executing homosexuals is not worth going to war over, but forcibly making them straight is?
[QUOTE=TheFifthWheel;47443135]I'm sure the majority of trans people you ask would rather not have been born trans and have to go through the pain and dissatisfaction of a sex change. I bet if this operation were cheaper than a sex reassignment surgery a lot of people would just opt to cure their body dysmorphia.[/QUOTE] One is changing your body to match how you feel and what you want, the other is changing what you want and how you feel to match your body. The latter sounds kind of worse, imo. I'm not trans, though, so I can't say.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;47449663]One is changing your body to match how you feel and what you want, the other is changing what you want and how you feel to match your body. The latter sounds kind of worse, imo. I'm not trans, though, so I can't say.[/QUOTE] If it's really as simple as just flipping a switch in the brain, then it seems much as easier and effective than expensive, invasive surgery that really can only do so much
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.