[QUOTE=Metist;50617421]Contempt because they don't want to be apart of their system any more? That is pathetic and immature.
When the UK joined the EU they had the right to leave the EU and now that UK the EU gets all pissy for the UK doing what they have ever right to do?
All it shows to me is how pathetic and petty the EU is. It shows me that they are children who will try to fuck you over for not wanting to be in their boys club any more. Instead of working together to help both parties they are purposely hurting both for petty revenge.
I was on the fence about Brexit only a month ago but now I couldn't hate the EU more.[/QUOTE]
Slow down there
The UK hasn't invoked article 50 to leave, because of this, no talks will be held.
If no-one caught that, here is the same message in bold: [b]THE UK NEEDS TO INVOKE ARTICLE 50 TO EVEN HAVE TALKS ABOUT LEAVING.[/b]
This is in the OP, please people.
[QUOTE=Metist;50617421]Contempt because they don't want to be apart of their system any more? That is pathetic and immature.
When the UK joined the EU they had the right to leave the EU and now that UK the EU gets all pissy for the UK doing what they have ever right to do?
All it shows to me is how pathetic and petty the EU is. It shows me that they are children who will try to fuck you over for not wanting to be in their boys club any more. Instead of working together to help both parties they are purposely hurting both for petty revenge.
I was on the fence about Brexit only a month ago but now I couldn't hate the EU more.[/QUOTE]
what exactly would be the point of the EU if you got the same deal after leaving the EU as you got while in it
they're a trade group, not a charity.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50617499]what exactly would be the point of the EU if you got the same deal after leaving the EU as you got while in it
they're a trade group, not a charity.[/QUOTE]
No one said they would get the same deals. Besides, the EU has been far, far more than just a trade group for years. It's probably not the trading most people don't like but the other policies they were forcing on the UK. Creating a situation where both parties win is obviously the better decision, not doing so would cut off your nose to spite your face.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50617499]what exactly would be the point of the EU if you got the same deal after leaving the EU as you got while in it
they're a trade group, not a charity.[/QUOTE]Actually a much worse trade deal it will cost pretty much the same and now with no investment from eu and no say regarding the regulations. And UK got special treatment now UK will get the worse end of the trade deal.
[QUOTE=space1;50617326]It's not that, it's that it's used in a different way in our country than it is outside of it.[/QUOTE]
well they're wrong
no academics use it, nor any real politicians or the like
[QUOTE=Metist;50617524]No one said they would get the same deals. Besides, the EU has been far, far more than just a trade group for years. It's probably not the trading most people don't like but the other policies they were forcing on the UK. Creating a situation where both parties win is obviously the better decision, not doing so would cut off your nose to spite your face.[/QUOTE]
Regardless of whether or not leaving was or was not justified, expecting the EU to treat you favorably after you ditch it is asinine
They work in their own interest. If you're no longer a part of them, your interest is no longer their concern.
Them allowing the UK to stick around the EU until they hammer out a favorable trade deal and then skip town isn't in their best interest. What is is forcing you into a position where they have the upper hand, which means forcing the UK out of the EU as soon as possible.
That doesn't make them evil, that makes them competent. The UK may be willing to forgo it's own economic interests, but no one else is obliged to.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50617579]Regardless of whether or not leaving was or was not justified, expecting the EU to treat you favorably after you ditch it is asinine
They work in their own interest. If you're no longer a part of them, your interest is no longer their concern..[/QUOTE]
Except making trade deals with the UK should be in their interest since they will benefit from it. Do you see what i'm getting at?
Telling the UK that you aren't going to work with them is only hurting both parties.
[QUOTE=Metist;50617601]Except making trade deals with the UK should be in their interest since they will benefit from it. Do you see what i'm getting at?
Telling the UK that you aren't going to work with them is only hurting both parties.[/QUOTE]
They aren't going to work with them while they aren't in a superior position.
The moment the clock starts, the EU can basically give the UK whatever deal it wants, since the UK not getting a deal at all would destroy the country.
So why in the world wouldn't the EU delay the talks until after the clock starts? They would be complete morons not to.
This isn't a tea party, this is global politics. And right now, the EU has the UK by the fucking balls.
[QUOTE=Metist;50617601]Except making trade deals with the UK should be in their interest since they will benefit from it. Do you see what i'm getting at?
Telling the UK that you aren't going to work with them is only hurting both parties.[/QUOTE]
Logically, the EU cannot give the UK better than it's already getting. That would set a precedent to other countries thinking of leaving the EU that they will get a better deal if they do so, and suddenly the EU's powerbase begins to shrink.
This isn't an evil thing to do. If you quit work by telling your boss to go fuck himself, you don't then call up the next day asking if you can be re-hired but with a pay rise. You wouldn't blame your former boss for not re-hiring you, you'd have to blame yourself for leaving in the first place.
If the UK still wants to function as an economy then they'll have to accept whatever the EU decides to give them. There's just no feasible way we can function and grow at the same time outside of the EU single market.
[QUOTE=Metist;50617421]Contempt because they don't want to be apart of their system any more? That is pathetic and immature.
When the UK joined the EU they had the right to leave the EU and now that UK the EU gets all pissy for the UK doing what they have ever right to do?
All it shows to me is how pathetic and petty the EU is. It shows me that they are children who will try to fuck you over for not wanting to be in their boys club any more. Instead of working together to help both parties they are purposely hurting both for petty revenge.
I was on the fence about Brexit only a month ago but now I couldn't hate the EU more.[/QUOTE]
The largest and most successful international union in all of history, that has produced peace and security in a region plagued by wars for hundreds of years, and achieved great political and economic cooperation between a group of very diverse countries, is just a boys club to you?
[QUOTE]The UK is Germany’s third-largest export market. It is the fifth-largest for France and Italy. It is absurd to think these countries would stop selling to Britain or put tariffs on British exports. The British would respond in kind, and Europe cannot afford a trade war. The EU did not create the existing trade patterns. They were already in place. The EU’s members will not allow Brussels to disrupt them.
Nor did the EU create the patterns of investment. Britain’s banks channel global capital and are a huge source of investment for the Continent. The EU is hardly going to hamper that flow by blocking investments.
As for regulations that could force EU banks to relocate jobs and resources to Frankfurt, this misses a number of points. Given Europe’s weakness, the burden is on the EU to show continuity. It needs the flow of capital.
Further, it is the clients who determine the world’s banking hubs. London has been a traditional banking center preferred by foreign clients. New York—not Frankfurt—is the alternative. If clients had wanted to bank in Frankfurt, they would have done so.
Obviously, nothing will happen in the immediate future. But it is not clear to me that there will be any real economic blowback. The UK is not Greece. Attempting to shun the British carries heavy potential consequences. Anything imposed on the British will resonate on the Continent. And Germany—which gets almost 50% of its GDP from exports—is not likely to let anyone hinder that trade.
The economic impact of the UK leaving the EU is minimal because the EU—not Britain—is the weak player. The EU is fighting with Poland over political changes… has criticized Hungary on human rights… is still engaged in the Greece disaster… has an emerging Italian banking crisis. Additionally, Finland is in economic trouble, and anti-EU parties are gaining strength.
The EU has so many internal issues they are hard to count. Its retaliation is the last thing Britain should fear.[/QUOTE]
Snippets from,
[URL]http://www.mauldineconomics.com/this-week-in-geopolitics/is-brexit-the-end-of-the-eu[/URL]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Friedman[/URL]
[QUOTE=space1;50617025]I mean you can argue it all you want but the fact of the matter is that socialism has always been considered a liberal ideology. Nazi Germany did have universal healthcare and state sponsored incentives to get the populace to do certain things. For instance, there was a policy where couples who married and had kids would receive state benefits(Or something like that)[/QUOTE]
While nazi germany was socialist (protective the strata of workers nationally etc) it was in no way liberal. Nazi germany was immensely conservative.
You're conflating social stances and economical ones here. Even ideologies like communism were often very socially conservative while being economically social.
The reason while it may be complex to notice for you is due to you being american, were the socially conservatives are rich and tend to try and enact non social economical policies. As such their opposition tends to be both liberal and socialist.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50617771]The largest and most successful international union in all of history, that has produced peace and security in a region plagued by wars for hundreds of years, and achieved great political and economic cooperation between a group of very diverse countries, is just a boys club to you?[/QUOTE]
They are treating it like a boys club considering how pissy they get when someone leaves it.
Just see how pathetically they were acting when faced with Nigel telling them off. They acted like children. Sure so did Nigel but that was expected of him.
The EU is slowly failing and becoming authoritarian. They should fix themselves before getting butthurt at other nations for leaving them.
[editline]29th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;50617715]Logically, the EU cannot give the UK better than it's already getting. That would set a precedent to other countries thinking of leaving the EU that they will get a better deal if they do so, and suddenly the EU's powerbase begins to shrink.[/QUOTE]
No one said they had to give them a better deal. But it doesn't mean they shouldn't talk about new deals while have the chance.
[QUOTE=Metist;50617601]Except making trade deals with the UK should be in their interest since they will benefit from it. Do you see what i'm getting at?
Telling the UK that you aren't going to work with them is only hurting both parties.[/QUOTE]
Well those trade deals need free movement, it's a European right.
also its not in Europe's best interest to give UK banks "the European passport" Europe wants banks which deal in euros not pounds.
Britain is also in a far worse position for negotiation than the eu. If those 2 years expire and we have nothing then we leave with nothing- and the decision must be unanimous- eastern Europe wants free movement and Spain want to bully the uk to put pressure on Gibraltar
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