[QUOTE=Explosions;42158429]No, a journalist's word doesn't mean anything either. If they cite experts, then yes.[/QUOTE]
well since you're not an expert on society you must have no idea what you're talking about. that's a nice paradox of hypocrisy you've created.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42158610]well since you're not an expert on society you must have no idea what you're talking about. that's a nice paradox of hypocrisy you've created.[/QUOTE]
I've made no claims about anything to do with "society". You, on the other hand, have claimed that:
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42137382]my girlfriend is norwegian and immigration is a serious problem in norway.
she informs me that they essentially just throw away all their money to immigrants.[/QUOTE]
You have no authority on the matter and, when pressed, you have provided absolutely no evidence other than completely unreliable anecdotes that are worth nothing.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42158323]I guess I used the wrong words. it's just drastically easier to get welfare payments if you're an immigrant. it's not a written law or a ''support the immigrants'' program. I'm sure being norwegian you've heard complaints that it's near impossible for an immigrant to get denied welfare while norwegian citizens only get it if the government deems that they absolutely need it.[/QUOTE]
This is not true, it's just as easy for immigrants as it is for "native Norwegians" to get welfare.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42158664]I've made no claims about anything to do with "society". You, on the other hand, have claimed that:
You have no authority on the matter and, when pressed, you have provided absolutely no evidence other than completely unreliable anecdotes that are worth nothing.[/QUOTE]
you have made claims about society because you said the only people who's words mean anything on any subject are people who are experts in said subject. you're not an expert on that subject, so how can your supposedly useless and completely invalid opinion be considered meaningful using your own logic?
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42158721]you have made claims about society because you said the only people who's words mean anything on any subject are people who are experts in said subject. you're not an expert on that subject, so how can your supposedly useless and completely invalid opinion be considered meaningful using your own logic?[/QUOTE]
you're a funny man
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42158323]I guess I used the wrong words. it's just drastically easier to get welfare payments if you're an immigrant. it's not a written law or a ''support the immigrants'' program. I'm sure being norwegian you've heard complaints that it's near impossible for an immigrant to get denied welfare while norwegian citizens only get it if the government deems that they absolutely need it.[/QUOTE]
Who cares if it's easier to get an allowance if you're an immigrant anyways. If you're immigrating to a country like Norway you obviously want a better life, and an immigrant is at an inherent disadvantage upon arrival for probably not having any connections with people to find work, and if they do find work they'll probably be paid less than what a Norweigan would be paid. Meanwhile, Norweigans would have far better opportunities with supporting themselves, such as a Norweigan education which gives them a bonus in reaching for high-skill occupations.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;42158711]This is not true, it's just as easy for immigrants as it is for "native Norwegians" to get welfare.[/QUOTE]
the things I've read and heard don't reflect that at all. I doubt you'd be able to find sources for your point of view either, so this whole discussion is pointless beyond this stage.
[editline]11th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;42159190]Who cares if it's easier to get an allowance if you're an immigrant anyways. If you're immigrating to a country like Norway you obviously want a better life, and an immigrant is at an inherent disadvantage upon arrival for probably not having any connections with people to find work, and if they do find work they'll probably be paid less than what a Norweigan would be paid. Meanwhile, Norweigans would have far better opportunities with supporting themselves, such as a Norweigan education which gives them a bonus in reaching for high-skill occupations.[/QUOTE]
if they give money to anyone who's an immigrant indiscriminately then norway is going to become a haven for immigrants which will lead to the decline of the country's economy. I'm not against helping immigrants, I'm planning to immigrate to norway myself eventually so obviously I'm not anti-immigrant. but the way they've been handling immigration recently is extremely bad.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42159304]the things I've read and heard don't reflect that at all. I doubt you'd be able to find sources for your point of view either, so this whole discussion is pointless beyond this stage.[/QUOTE]
Some of these differentiate between Norwegian citizens and EEA citizens, the ones that don't apply equally to all Norwegian citizens:
[B]Unemployment benefits:[/B] [url]https://www.nav.no/343403.cms[/url]
[B]Family related benefits (pregnancy, child etc.):[/B] [url]https://www.nav.no/English/Social+security/Stønader+på+familieområdet+%28Family+related+benefits%29.231380.cms[/url]
[B]Sickness benefits:[/B] [url]https://www.nav.no/English/Social+security/Sickness+benefits.343415.cms[/url]
[B]Pensions:[/B] [url]https://www.nav.no/English/Social+security/Pensions.343224.cms[/url]
Let's look at unemployment benefits first:
[quote]Unemployment benefits are a partial replacement for lost earnings. In order to receive unemployment benefits you must register with the Norwegian Labour and Welfare Administration (NAV) as a jobseeker and actually apply for work in addition to meeting the further requirements.
Who may receive unemployment benefits?
The main requirements for receiving unemployment benefits are that
your hours have been reduced by at least 50 percent
you were paid wages of at least 1,5 times the National Insurance Scheme basic amount in the last calendar year (last year), or at least 3 times the National Insurance Scheme basic amount over the past three full calendar years. Parental benefits (foreldrepenger), pregnancy allowance (svangerskapspenger) and sickness benefits in connection with pregnancy count as earned income and are included in the minimum income requirement
you are registered as a jobseeker, and submit your employment status form every 14 daysyou actually apply for work (including that you are an active jobseeker, and that you keep your CV up-to-date on [url]www.nav.no[/url])
you live or are present in Norway
you are not a student (as a rule)
You may also be entitled to unemployment benefits if you
have been partly or completely laid off
create your own business
are unemployed because of bankruptcy
are an EEA citizen, pursuant to specific requirements
have recently been discharged from the army[/quote]
Extra info for EEA citizens:
[quote]Special rules for EEA citizens
EEA citizens having some connection with working life in Norway by working here for a certain period and paying tax as employees may submit claims for Norwegian unemployment benefit.
The specific requirement is that the person concerned must prove that he/she has been unemployed in Norway. [B]Furthermore, the person must complete the general requirements for entitlement to unemployed benefit in Norway.[/B] Unemployment benefit rights earned in another EEA country can then be taken as the basis for assessing the admission condition for minimum income, and for calculating the size of unemployment benefit. The work requirement also applies to the Nordic countries, with the exception of job seekers who in the course of the last five years prior to the application for unemployment benefit have earned the right to or have received unemployment benefit in Norway; see Nordic Convention on social security.[/quote]
So what about sickness benefits then?
For Norwegian citizens:
[quote]Who is entitled to sickness benefits?
You must be occupationally disabled due to a disability that is clearly caused by your own illness or injury.
You must have been working for at least four weeks.
You must lose pensionable income due to your occupational disability. It is a requirement that the income that the calculation of your sickness benefits is based is at least fifty percent of the basic amount (1/2 G). This income limit does not apply to sickness benefits paid during the employer liability period.[/quote]
EEA Citizens:
[quote]Sickness benefit is a compensation for loss of income from employment in the event of occupational disability due to illness or injury.
EEA citizens who come to Norway are entitled to claim sickness benefit under Norwegian law if they are working in Norway.
Principal rules for entitlement to sickness benefit
You must be occupationally disabled due to a functional impairment that is clearly caused by your own illness or injury.
You must have worked for at least four weeks – time worked in another EEA country is also included in the qualifying period.
You must lose pensionable income due to your disability. It is a condition that the basis on which your income is calculated is at least 50 per cent of the basic amount under the Norwegian national insurance scheme. [/quote]
Only difference being that time worked in another EEA country also counts towards the required work period.
Family related and pensions don't seem to differentiate between Norwegian citizens and EEA citizens, or are only available to Norwegian citizens.
You were saying?
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42159304]but the way they've been handling immigration recently is extremely bad.[/QUOTE]
Lol.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42159304]if they give money to anyone who's an immigrant indiscriminately then norway is going to become a haven for immigrants which will lead to the decline of the country's economy. I'm not against helping immigrants, I'm planning to immigrate to norway myself eventually so obviously I'm not anti-immigrant. but the way they've been handling immigration recently is extremely bad.[/QUOTE]
What I think you'll find is that the immigrants that are well off and arrive in Norway don't end up in those 'ghettos' or whatever they are. In the immigrant debate they are not important, they probably represent an insignificant figure relative to the total immigration intake anyways. The immigrants who receive allowances would be those that do live in those ghettos, and guess what? It's probably shit living in them. If the government were to stop giving them allowances, that would only make the situation worse, for both the Norweigans and immigrants.
I'm not advocating for immigrants to be restricted to such ghettos, but there's more to it than blank statements such as accusing a majority of immigrants as being criminals or blaming the immigration situation on the fact that immigrants tend to stick around their own kind. There is nothing wrong with being around people that you can relate to, in fact it's probably better that immigrants to stick together for company while as a collective they learn to live in Norway. There is no need for immigrants to be 'integrated' into Norweigan culture and society, there is nothing wrong with multiculturalism.
Hey, my parents immigrated to Sweden a while ago, where's my money?
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
oh shit, sorry i blew it on drugs
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
brb raping some white people
I forgot financial assistance:
[url]https://www.nav.no/Økonomisk+stønad+%28sosialhjelp%29.282014.cms[/url]
Which applies equally to everyone who is legally in Norway, woop.
Why you even bothered to respond to such a pig-headed racist is beyond me, but props to you for going through with it.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;42159487]Hey, my parents immigrated to Sweden a while ago, where's my money?
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
oh shit, sorry i blew it on drugs
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
brb raping some white people[/QUOTE]
I can't fathom how you draw the conclusion that we're saying "All immigrants are criminal rapists".
Why is it that it's either "All immigrants are filthy criminals" or "No immigrants can commit crimes"
The current immigration policy allows, people with a criminal background to get into the country, either through loopholes or fake IDs. If they're caught by the police, most of the time they'll be let go, why? Because our prisons and court systems, don't have the capacity to deal with the amount of people.
Unless the current government is flat out lying to us, they're trying to close up these loopholes, to stop people from smuggling drugs/prostitutes and people into the country.
Now I ask again, how is this racist? No one wants to stop immigration, or discriminate towards foreigners.
Here are some more articles, in Norwegian I'm afraid.
[url]http://www.aftenposten.no/asylkrim/Dette-er-narkoselgernes-favorittmottak-7298094.html#.UjES_cZmh8E[/url]
[url]http://www.aftenposten.no/asylkrim/Over-halvparten-av-de-domte_-dommes-for-narkolovbrudd-7298129.html#.UjES98Zmh8E[/url]
[url]http://www.aftenposten.no/asylkrim/Selger-en-million-smuglersigaretter-i-uken-i-Oslo-7303005.html#.UjESeMZmh8E[/url]
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
Please by all means, enlighten me as to why this is wrong, and I'll gladly apologize.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42159558]Why you even bothered to respond to such a pig-headed racist is beyond me, but props to you for going through with it.[/QUOTE]
immigrant is a race. you just keep producing these unbelievably amusing posts and I'm in awe of it. someone wants immigration to be organized, controlled and closely monitored and you call them racist. you're an extremely pathetic person.
[editline]11th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=LarparNar;42159423]Some of these differentiate between Norwegian citizens and EEA citizens, the ones that don't apply equally to all Norwegian citizens:[/QUOTE]
I looked at every link you posted and none of that appears to address what I was saying. in almost all countries that offer government assistance, people receive it on a circumstantial basis. someone needs to decide who does and doesn't get assistance. the point is that it's a lot easier for immigrants to receive benefits because the fact that they're immigrants with limited resources is a large factor in the decision making process. I'm not saying this is wrong, what's wrong is the fact that EVERY immigrant can benefit from this regardless of who they are and what they do. as I said, it's not a written ''all immigrants get free stuff'' law. that's not what I'm trying to say at all. I'm saying the way the norwegian government (before the election) handled immigration and government assistance was flawed and that is why the results of the election are good.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42160375]immigrant is a race. you just keep producing these unbelievably amusing posts and I'm in awe of it. someone wants immigration to be organized, controlled and closely monitored and you call them racist. you're an extremely pathetic person.
[editline]11th September 2013[/editline]
I looked at every link you posted and none of that appears to address what I was saying. in almost all countries that offer government assistance, people receive it on a circumstantial basis. someone needs to decide who does and doesn't get assistance. the point is that it's a lot easier for immigrants to receive benefits because the fact that they're immigrants with limited resources is a large factor in the decision making process. I'm not saying this is wrong, what's wrong is the fact that EVERY immigrant can benefit from this regardless of who they are and what they do. as I said, it's not a written ''all immigrants get free stuff'' law. [B][U]that's not what I'm trying to say at all.[/U][/B] I'm saying the way the norwegian government (before the election) handled immigration and government assistance was flawed and that is why the results of the election are good.[/QUOTE]
That is what you said though.
[QUOTE=Xavith;42160119]I can't fathom how you draw the conclusion that we're saying "All immigrants are criminal rapists".
Why is it that it's either "All immigrants are filthy criminals" or "No immigrants can commit crimes"
The current immigration policy allows, people with a criminal background to get into the country, either through loopholes or fake IDs. If they're caught by the police, most of the time they'll be let go, why? Because our prisons and court systems, don't have the capacity to deal with the amount of people.
Unless the current government is flat out lying to us, they're trying to close up these loopholes, to stop people from smuggling drugs/prostitutes and people into the country.
Now I ask again, how is this racist? No one wants to stop immigration, or discriminate towards foreigners.
Here are some more articles, in Norwegian I'm afraid.
[URL]http://www.aftenposten.no/asylkrim/Dette-er-narkoselgernes-favorittmottak-7298094.html#.UjES_cZmh8E[/URL]
[URL]http://www.aftenposten.no/asylkrim/Over-halvparten-av-de-domte_-dommes-for-narkolovbrudd-7298129.html#.UjES98Zmh8E[/URL]
[URL]http://www.aftenposten.no/asylkrim/Selger-en-million-smuglersigaretter-i-uken-i-Oslo-7303005.html#.UjESeMZmh8E[/URL]
[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]
Please by all means, enlighten me as to why this is wrong, and I'll gladly apologize.[/QUOTE]
Because when people use sentences like "immigrants comes here just to get benefits", "immigrants comes here just to bla bla bla", not saying that you said, I get pissed.
Especially when the [B]majority[/B] of the immigrants in Sweden are not criminals and does not leech from the government.
It's good that your government is closing loopholes nothing wrong with that. My post wasn't even directed to you. My post was directed to those people that thinks all kinds of immigration is bad.
My parents came to Sweden 30 years ago. They worked their way up from nothing. Both their backs are ruined because of all the shitty work they had to do. When I hear people say "immigrants just come here for benefits", I think on my parents and it just pisses me the fuck off.
[QUOTE]Now I ask again, how is this racist? No one wants to stop immigration, or discriminate towards foreigners.[/QUOTE]
I don't even see how this is a question about racism. And this is another problem that's fucking annoying. No one can state anything about immigration , without either going "that's racist" or "are you calling me a racist".
No Xavith, I'm not calling you a racist. I just made a sarcastic remark in my previous post based on what certain people said in this thread.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42160375]the fact that they're immigrants with limited resources is a large factor in the decision making process.[/QUOTE]
No it's not. If you actually read the links you'll see that who gets support is based entirely upon whether or not you are able or at least trying to get a job, and if you've attempted every thinkable solution or not. As these websites are the official guidelines from the Norwegian Labour and Welfare Administration, why don't you look through them and find anything that would support your statement?
For your convenience I quoted a few bits to support mine in my previous post.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42160375]I'm not saying this is wrong, what's wrong is the fact that EVERY immigrant can benefit from this regardless of who they are and what they do.[/quote]
Here we go again, making claims without [I]anything[/I] to back them up. At least you are providing a good educational example of how not to provide a good argument.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42160375]as I said, it's not a written ''all immigrants get free stuff'' law. that's not what I'm trying to say at all.[/quote]
[I][quote="You in the same post"]what's wrong is the fact that EVERY immigrant can benefit from this regardless of who they are and what they do[/quote][/I]
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42160375]I'm saying the way the norwegian government (before the election) handled immigration and government assistance was flawed and that is why the results of the election are good.[/QUOTE]
And once again you fail to provide a single explanation on why the government assistance is flawed, or why you think it is, other than "my girlfriend told me".
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42160375]with limited resources is a large factor in the decision making process.[/quote]
Finishing off with this bit. OF COURSE how limited your resources are is a large factor in the decision making process, that's the whole fucking point of welfare!
[QUOTE=Swebonny;42163768]
I don't even see how this is a question about racism. And this is another problem that's fucking annoying. No one can state anything about immigration , without either going "that's racist" or "are you calling me a racist".
No Xavith, I'm not calling you a racist. I just made a sarcastic remark in my previous post based on what certain people said in this thread.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm sorry, that last segment wasn't really directed at you either. I should've made it a bit more clear in my post. Kind of opened up as a reply to you, then ended up going on a rant, sorry.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;42136590]Anti immigration but named progress party. What.[/QUOTE]
Progress comes in many shapes and forms! They're saving themselves from becoming just like Sweden!
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