• Obama to propose 2 free years of community college for everybody
    98 replies, posted
I don't suppose that includes forgiving the student loans from MY two years of community college.
I doubt this will come but I would love it if it did.
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;46887321]This will make associate degrees the same as a high school diploma won't it?[/QUOTE] Quite a large chunk of the rest of the developed world has already done this though. College degrees aren't quite "worthless" in those places.
[QUOTE=Reshy;46887158]I'm sorry, I can't take this as anything more than Obama passing air at this point. He chronically under-delivers.[/QUOTE] You make it sound like he never does anything: [url]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/[/url] He has kept 45% of his promises, 7% are in the works. 25% were compromised, and 22% have been broken.
If everyone has a college degree it will only devalue it further, this isn't a completely good idea.
Education reform in north america? Hah, not while there's billions to be made off the backs of students trying to educate themselves.
I like it. My Republican governor did the same thing last year. Those who don't want to go to college just won't, or will go and won't succeed at it, and those who really want to apply themselves in community college will succeed and get a better job because of it. Even if it's free, even if it's a two-year program at a community college, college is still much harder than high school is, and they're not required to let you pass like high school is. I think it's fair, and none of our economic or education advisors really warned about it damaging the value of a degree beforehand. Besides, just look at places like Norway and Sweden. College is free, and they have perfectly fine economies with perfectly normal middle classes. The far-right propaganda that says "if everyone has a college degree, they won't mean anything" is just garbage. There will still be plenty of arts majors to throw into Starbucks and McDonald's, I promise you. [editline]8th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;46887529]I'm confused. Did he say that he was going to try and give 2 years of free community college for ALL American workers and he said it IN Tennessee, or was he saying he was going to give 2 free years of community called to all american workers in Tennessee[/QUOTE] We've had this in Tennessee for about a year now. It's called the Tennessee Promise program, and it was part of a wave of education changes our governor, Bill Haslam, tried to pass last year. Some of it failed, like the voucher program for private education, but the Tennessee Promise program succeeded. Should start seeing effects this August. Anyway, my understanding is that Obama wants to introduce a similar program federally. I don't know what'll fund it, though; ours is funded by our state lottery.
remember with the industrial revolution how america quickly rose to power thanks to everyone being able to go to college? and remember how that's not really possible anymore because of the prohibitive post-secondary education costs are? and how germany has free tuition(read: investing in their own future) and how well off germany is doing now?
Worst case scenario it doesn't pass congress, and it gives Obama a great opportunity to say "see this is why a majorly-republican congress is fucked up" [QUOTE=Ignhelper;46887405]Watch as Republicans call him a communist for making education free[/QUOTE] that plus the usual "NOTHING IS FREE, IT COMES OUT OF TAXES!!!" stuff. they're trying really hard to make government funded higher education (a standard in a lot of countries) something bad
Personally, I think we need to go a lot farther than only funding what is, at it's core, just outsourced job training that companies used to pay for themselves. If you're gonna fund associates degrees, you should fund 2 years of a real college degree, too. Or, better yet, the whole thing. But, none of this will ever actually happen. Republicans see it as a handout, and they control Congress and probably the Presidency in a few years. We couldn't even get a basic first-world healthcare system passed...we'll never get progressive education policies.
step in the right directions i suppose. but i just had to take out a $15k loan to finish my last semester of classes. that's unacceptable and that's cheap. i'm only taking 13 credits of class
[QUOTE=latin_geek;46888096]Worst case scenario it doesn't pass congress, and it gives Obama a great opportunity to say "see this is why a majorly-republican congress is fucked up" that plus the usual "NOTHING IS FREE, IT COMES OUT OF TAXES!!!" stuff. they're trying really hard to make government funded higher education (a standard in a lot of countries) something bad[/QUOTE] Ours is actually funded by stupid people who bet against ridiculous odds. Can we do that everywhere?
No way this is passing congress, good intentions though.
I think the basic idea is sound, since it could be an investment that pays off big time later. People who are educated have better paying jobs in general, and so pay more in taxes. People who are scraping by usually don't earn enough to pay a lot. However, money for 'education' will be wasted if people don't know what to kind of education is most profitable. Not everyone is up on what kind of program they need to get into in order to gain the most marketable skills. This is where I think the federal government, states, and the business community should work together. I'd like to see an official roadmap of jobs. Something like this for all major fields: The next 2 years, study this and that, and here's what you'll be qualified for. Specifically listing courses, schools, everything spelled out plainly. In the following 5-10 years, you'll need this additional education to be qualified for the next level of whatever you're doing. Same as above, detailed step by step. The idea is that even parents with no education will be able to steer their kids in the right direction. Even kids with no help from adults in sorting out their future will know what path to follow. Right now it's basically just up to you to figure it out for yourself. If you're lucky you might have someone in your life who helps. Either way it's a hugely inefficient way to handle things. Without direction, many people would take those two free years and study totally useless things(useless as in leaving them no better off than before).
I honestly hopes this become true. he has no reason to blow hot air at this point, this would be so amazing if he did..
Not going to a community college for your first two years is going to cost you a lot of extra money for the same educational goals, because everything in your Associate's Degree is typically just foundational stuff. General education and a couple of electives related to your major. This is especially true if you're one of the 50-70% of students who end up changing their major at least once (Google says most do it three times). Once you've got your Associate's Degree locked in, it will transfer to basically any university with no loss of credits or classes. If money isn't something you can freely burn, then community college is your absolute best choice for entering the college environment. I'm in favor of any legislation that makes Community College free, or at least more affordable. [editline]8th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;46888255]I think the basic idea is sound, since it could be an investment that pays off big time later. People who are educated have better paying jobs in general, and so pay more in taxes. People who are scraping by usually don't earn enough to pay a lot. However, money for 'education' will be wasted if people don't know what to kind of education is most profitable. Not everyone is up on what kind of program they need to get into in order to gain the most marketable skills. This is where I think the federal government, states, and the business community should work together. I'd like to see an official roadmap of jobs. Something like this for all major fields: The next 2 years, study this and that, and here's what you'll be qualified for. Specifically listing courses, schools, everything spelled out plainly. In the following 5-10 years, you'll need this additional education to be qualified for the next level of whatever you're doing. Same as above, detailed step by step. The idea is that even parents with no education will be able to steer their kids in the right direction. Even kids with no help from adults in sorting out their future will know what path to follow. Right now it's basically just up to you to figure it out for yourself. If you're lucky you might have someone in your life who helps. Either way it's a hugely inefficient way to handle things. Without direction, many people would take those two free years and study totally useless things(useless as in leaving them no better off than before).[/QUOTE] This is where college counselors come into play. Every college will have at least one person on staff who's primary responsibility is to talk to students, help determine their career goals, and steer them down the right educational pathways.
You've got less than a month to make this work Obama. :v:
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46888270]Not going to a community college for your first two years is going to cost you a lot of extra money for the same educational goals, [B]because everything in your Associate's Degree is typically just foundational stuff. General education and a couple of electives related to your major.[/B][/QUOTE] I disagree with this portion. I have about 75% of my classes as field intensive classes, with very few classes categorized as "general education." Most of the people I've interacted with at my community college (albeit I'm generally stuck in the technology and manufacturing portion of campus) have similar schedules.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46888270]Once you've got your Associate's Degree locked in, it will transfer to basically any university with no loss of credits or classes.[/QUOTE] This is very false, most schools pretend like they exist in a vacuum and that they are the only school on the planet, and refuse to acknowledge any credits gained at other schools. I went through that crap myself.
[QUOTE=Levelog;46888310]I disagree with this portion. I have about 75% of my classes as field intensive classes, with very few classes categorized as "general education." Most of the people I've interacted with at my community college (albeit I'm generally stuck in the technology and manufacturing portion of campus) have similar schedules.[/QUOTE] It may swing a bit differently with specific career goals or educational paths. A lot of careers can be jumped into right out of community college, and instead of earning a general sort of Associate's degree, you'll do a more specialized Associate of Applied Sciences degree, or even just a certificate of comprehension/completion. This is especially true with some of the tech and manufacturing type of jobs. CAD classes, and the like. Either way, once you've got an Associate's degree, you're basically good to jump into any college. It may just be that you'll have to take a few extra classes, if you missed anything important to whatever major you're pursuing, or if the college has extra requirements.
If this happens, I'll go and I don't even need it. I just think it'd be fun.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;46888350]This is very false, most schools pretend like they exist in a vacuum and that they are the only school on the planet, and refuse to acknowledge any credits gained at other schools. I went through that crap myself.[/QUOTE] I dunno! I haven't personally heard of anybody having major issues with this, but that don't mean it isn't a problem. I know it is definitely an issue if you haven't [I]completed[/I] the Associate's yet, but from what the college counselors I've talked to have told me it should all be hunky dory once you lock in the degree? At the very least, [I]state[/I] schools should be recognizing any work done at community colleges.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;46888094]remember with the industrial revolution how america quickly rose to power thanks to everyone being able to go to college? and remember how that's not really possible anymore because of the prohibitive post-secondary education costs are? and how germany has free tuition(read: investing in their own future) and how well off germany is doing now?[/QUOTE] Most education rise in MN is due to the state not paying the schools what they promised. They have a bottom line to make too.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46888270]Not going to a community college for your first two years is going to cost you a lot of extra money for the same educational goals, because everything in your Associate's Degree is typically just foundational stuff. General education and a couple of electives related to your major. This is especially true if you're one of the 50-70% of students who end up changing their major at least once (Google says most do it three times). Once you've got your Associate's Degree locked in, it will transfer to basically any university with no loss of credits or classes. If money isn't something you can freely burn, then community college is your absolute best choice for entering the college environment. I'm in favor of any legislation that makes Community College free, or at least more affordable. [/QUOTE] It requires a little more legwork and research to make sure you don't waste any credits, but I am a HUGE fan of subbing out the busywork courses to a community college that costs about a 1/3 as much per credit hour as a state school. Let's face it: You can get the same damn math course or earth science or english comp course at a community college as you can at a university. Save your university courses for unique and interesting things that you can only learn at a university. Don't waste money taking a stupid algebra course at a 4-year school. Ivy Tech here in Indiana offers a 2-year program that is SPECIFICALLY designed to transfer to Indiana University (where I am now) so you can immediately start studying your real major. It's an incredible money-saver. Also, in my own experience, community college core courses are just easier. And getting into community college is extremely easy. Plus, transferring from community college to a university is insanely easy. Even the orientation process is quicker and easier for transfer students.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46888382]I dunno! I haven't personally heard of anybody having major issues with this, but that don't mean it isn't a problem. I know it is definitely an issue if you haven't [I]completed[/I] the Associate's yet, but from what the college counselors I've talked to have told me it should all be hunky dory once you lock in the degree? At the very least, [I]state[/I] schools should be recognizing any work done at community colleges.[/QUOTE] I know my university recognizes previously-earned Associate's Degrees as the complete list of general education requirements, which make up 60 credit hours in any Bachelor's program. So that two years at a community college directly translates into half of the 120 hours required for 4-year completion. The only reason I didn't go for the free two-year community college is because my four-year program is being paid in full by the state, and I wouldn't have had that opportunity if I had gone to a community college first.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46888382]I dunno! I haven't personally heard of anybody having major issues with this, but that don't mean it isn't a problem. I know it is definitely an issue if you haven't [I]completed[/I] the Associate's yet, but from what the college counselors I've talked to have told me it should all be hunky dory once you lock in the degree? At the very least, [I]state[/I] schools should be recognizing any work done at community colleges.[/QUOTE] Yup, community college counselors aren't stupid. They know the credit transfer process inside and out.
Guess I'm the only one who had a negative experience with that then.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;46887194]Huh, what kind of free are we expecting here? Because right now I go to community college for free**. *Free college tuition will pay for all of your college expenses, but only after the bill is due, so you better have a few grand on you when you sign up **Loans are available for those that realize that it is impossible to work full time since local community colleges offer no online classes[/QUOTE] Wow, you're community college is fucked. My tuition was paid by grants immediately so I didn't have to back it, and mine has online and hybrid classes.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;46888725]Guess I'm the only one who had a negative experience with that then.[/QUOTE] Probably not. It depends on the school. A true public-sponsored community college should be all about transfers. A private (expensive) 2-year tech school probably isn't.
[QUOTE=Korova;46888378]If this happens, I'll go and I don't even need it. I just think it'd be fun.[/QUOTE] This is exactly why, after abolishing university fees in the 70s, we reverted from 100% free university education back to only a 60% government contribution with the remainder as a deferred repayment student loan scheme. You're the kind of person who would take a spot from someone who actually wants to learn, and who ends up wasting taxpayer money so badly that neoliberals will eventually remove such a scheme and ruin it for everyone else.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.