• Windows 9 Hinted to Win Over Windows 7 Users
    529 replies, posted
like recently my dad's win8 laptop had some account problems and it took me like an hour to find the correct menu to rectify the problem, i knew where to go on win7, xp but i couldn't find it at all in the metro config menu
Seriously, this whole "it breaks my workflow!!!" thing isn't a strong argument. We can't multi-task, not to the degree you seem to think you can at least. The second our attention is drawn away by something else (opening any kind of menu will do this, you opened it for a reason after all), you're not going to be putting 100% into whatever you were doing previously. Even if you can perform all of the actions without looking away from a certain point, you're still not multi-tasking fully. Besides, what kind of "workflow" are you breaking by opening the menu? It's not like you can actually do any work when the start menu is open anyway, clicking anywhere breaks focus and closes it. You're going to have to stop working to use the menu, so what does the form factor of the menu actually count for here?
[QUOTE=J!NX;45304128]Classic shell and other similar programs weren't nearly as reliable as windows 7's start menu because it was tacked on, added more programs to my list that I shouldn't have needed and had a bunch of useless shit I didn't need. CCLeaner is a decent addition that is good as third party because it lets them really optimize its use. But the start menu is very simple, it should be a part of the UI, not some fucking program I need just to have the start menu. I shouldn't have to update the start menu, too. start menu shouldn't NEED to be optimized, it should be a part of the OS to boot.[/QUOTE] Classic Shell wasn't, but is reliable and far superior to the Windows 7 start menu. You can customize it to fit your needs perfectly, removing adding and tweaking all variables about it. I'm sorry, programs that you shouldn't have needed? If there start menu isn't there by design and you want it, then it is a program you need. Should you not need DOSbox because once upon a time Windows supported DOS? What other programs do you even have that you shouldn't have needed? "wah wah wah, I wanted the start menu" is all I hear. I'm sorry, but Microsoft decided to take a new direction. The same way they once decided that Windows would no longer use DOS to run things, they decided that the Start Menu was not used enough and was of no need in it's current state. Just because you wanted it doesn't mean it should have been there, they made a choice and that's how Windows 8 turned out. If you want it back, you install a program to get it back, just like you do with DOSbox. Why shouldn't the start menu NEED to be optimized? Because you are used to it? What does that matter? People were used to using Windows purely through DOS commands at one point as well. MAC and Windows used to be almost identical. Should people have whined and forced them to keep being identical when they introduced new features to the system and removed old ones?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;45304186]Seriously, this whole "it breaks my workflow!!!" thing isn't a strong argument. We can't multi-task, not to the degree you seem to think you can at least. The second our attention is drawn away by something else (opening any kind of menu will do this, you opened it for a reason after all), you're not going to be putting 100% into whatever you were doing previously. Even if you can perform all of the actions without looking away from a certain point, you're still not multi-tasking fully. Besides, what kind of "workflow" are you breaking by opening the menu? It's not like you can actually do any work when the start menu is open anyway, clicking anywhere breaks focus and closes it. You're going to have to stop working to use the menu, so what does the form factor of the menu actually count for here?[/QUOTE] I must be special then since my focus works a lot better than what you described.
[QUOTE=Sableye;45304160]only problem ive had with 8 is that finding the correct menu to fiddle with some setting that you'll only have to open once can be hard to locate, and the metro interface on the important windows like the internet config screen are infuriating[/QUOTE] They really fucked up the settings stuff, it's fragmented between Metro and Aero, where it really should be accessible from both.
[QUOTE=dgg;45304187] I'm sorry, but Microsoft decided to take a new direction. The same way they once decided that Windows would no longer use DOS to run things, they decided that the Start Menu was not used enough and was of no need in it's current state. Just because you wanted it doesn't mean it should have been there, they made a choice and that's how Windows 8 turned out. If you want it back, you install a program to get it back, just like you do with DOSbox. Why shouldn't the start menu NEED to be optimized? Because you are used to it? What does that matter? People were used to using Windows purely through DOS commands at one point as well. MAC and Windows used to be almost identical. Should people have whined and forced them to keep being identical when they introduced new features to the system and removed old ones?[/QUOTE] Microsoft moving away from DOS was a good thing because DOS was clunky and not user-friendly, Microsoft moving away from their most cherished UI (the one that is universally liked and has worked for 15 years) in favor of making it look more like the xbox is a bad thing. Windows 8's UI's status as 'new' does not make it exempt from criticism. It's really not that hard to understand. [editline]5th July 2014[/editline] i will put it this way: people would not be arguing about it 2 years later if the win 8 UI was an objectively good design choice
[QUOTE=dgg;45304187]Classic Shell wasn't, but is reliable and far superior to the Windows 7 start menu. You can customize it to fit your needs perfectly, removing adding and tweaking all variables about it. I'm sorry, programs that you shouldn't have needed? If there start menu isn't there by design and you want it, then it is a program you need. Should you not need DOSbox because once upon a time Windows supported DOS? What other programs do you even have that you shouldn't have needed? "wah wah wah, I wanted the start menu" is all I hear. I'm sorry, but Microsoft decided to take a new direction. The same way they once decided that Windows would no longer use DOS to run things, they decided that the Start Menu was not used enough and was of no need in it's current state. Just because you wanted it doesn't mean it should have been there, they made a choice and that's how Windows 8 turned out. If you want it back, you install a program to get it back, just like you do with DOSbox. Why shouldn't the start menu NEED to be optimized? Because you are used to it? What does that matter? People were used to using Windows purely through DOS commands at one point as well. MAC and Windows used to be almost identical. Should people have whined and forced them to keep being identical when they introduced new features to the system and removed old ones?[/QUOTE] Man I really want to continue talking my point but your attitude and just general level of arrogance is seriously shit poster tier it's very hard to talk to you, I'm sorry, but, calm the fuck down. Why do you care that I think it should be within the OS natively? At least I admit I like it. Most people just blindly shit on W8 purely because of metro and that is what I'm trying to acknowledge.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45304189]I must be special then since my focus works a lot better than what you described.[/QUOTE] Great. That doesn't prove me wrong or anything? You can refocus as fast as you fucking well want, that doesn't mean you can actually do any work whilst interacting with [B]any[/B] of the start menus because of how they inherently work. It doesn't mean you are paying 100% attention to either thing. Humans cannot multi-task in any meaningful capacity, we time-share our tasks, similarly to how computers schedule tasks really but with a bit of parallel processing going on at all times.
Why do we even argue that hard about which windows is better? MS doesn't even care as long as money is flowing. Why do people care so much about which windows other people use? It matters fuck all really.
[QUOTE=Doomish;45304200]Microsoft moving away from DOS was a good thing, Microsoft moving away from their most cherished UI (the one that is universally liked and has worked for 15 years) in favor of making it look more like the xbox is a bad thing. It's really not that hard to understand. [editline]5th July 2014[/editline] i will put it this way: people would not be arguing about it 2 years later if the win 8 UI was an objectively good design choice[/QUOTE] Because they refuse to adapt?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;45304186]Seriously, this whole "it breaks my workflow!!!" thing isn't a strong argument. We can't multi-task, not to the degree you seem to think you can at least. The second our attention is drawn away by something else (opening any kind of menu will do this, you opened it for a reason after all), you're not going to be putting 100% into whatever you were doing previously. Even if you can perform all of the actions without looking away from a certain point, you're still not multi-tasking fully. Besides, what kind of "workflow" are you breaking by opening the menu? It's not like you can actually do any work when the start menu is open anyway, clicking anywhere breaks focus and closes it. You're going to have to stop working to use the menu, so what does the form factor of the menu actually count for here?[/QUOTE] Visual workflow. If a wall of text has something that I want to copy to a clipboard, I can keep my 66,97% of focus on that thing in concrete while I push Windows, write notepad and smash Enter. Which saves me time opening a fullscreen window, and having to go back in that wall to what I wanted to copy. [QUOTE=itisjuly;45304149]You're on 7, I can't tell if serious or satire.[/QUOTE] Using 'only' for a large amount of time, bolded words for exageration, more than one exclamation mark, using the OS I'm 'critizising'... I'll let you decide.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;45304186]Seriously, this whole "it breaks my workflow!!!" thing isn't a strong argument. We can't multi-task, not to the degree you seem to think you can at least. The second our attention is drawn away by something else (opening any kind of menu will do this, you opened it for a reason after all), you're not going to be putting 100% into whatever you were doing previously. Even if you can perform all of the actions without looking away from a certain point, you're still not multi-tasking fully. Besides, what kind of "workflow" are you breaking by opening the menu? It's not like you can actually do any work when the start menu is open anyway, clicking anywhere breaks focus and closes it. You're going to have to stop working to use the menu, so what does the form factor of the menu actually count for here?[/QUOTE] Imagine you're walking down the street, which of these two solutions do you most prefer? [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8m.jpg[/img] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8.jpg[/img]
How I opened programs in windows 7: I pressed the windows key, typed in what I want, and pressed enter How I open programs in windows 8: I pressed the windows key, typed in what I want, and pressed enter I just don't get it
[QUOTE=meppers;45304230]How I opened programs in windows 7: I pressed the windows key, typed in what I want, and pressed enter How I open programs in windows 8: I pressed the windows key, typed in what I want, and pressed enter I just don't get it[/QUOTE] Me neither, can someone explain this magic?
[QUOTE=J!NX;45304210]Man I really want to continue talking my point but your attitude and just general level of arrogance is seriously shit poster tier it's very hard to talk to you, I'm sorry, but, calm the fuck down. Why do you care that I think it should be within the OS natively? At least I admit I like it. Most people just blindly shit on W8 purely because of metro and that is what I'm trying to acknowledge.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but your arguments don't make any sense. You hate on something because there exists a fix for it and the only reason you hate on it is because you want it to be there. You have a way to get what you want, but you don't like it because you have to do it instead of them.
[QUOTE=dgg;45304226]Imagine you're walking down the street, which of these two solutions do you most prefer? [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8m.jpg[/img] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Now imagine sitting still in a chair and doing the same thing, where it only covers your computer screen and not your entire field of vision. That's a terrible comparison, and It has never in any way been a distraction when I've been using Windows 8. I think you should try using the OS before making terrible comparisons such as this.
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45304222]Because they refuse to adapt?[/QUOTE] Shouldn't have to, there was no reason for the change
I like the feel of windows 8, but it does have some annoying issues and bugs. I actually hope that include the big fancy menu as an option in windows 9. I have a touch screen which makes it a little more engaging as well. I was all about FUCK WINDOWS 8, until I got this new laptop with windows 8 on it. Actually a big surprise when I didn't just follow the bandwagon. windows 9-EXCITED none the less.
[QUOTE=paul simon;45304247]Now imagine sitting still in a chair and doing the same thing, where it only covers your computer screen and not your entire field of vision. That's a terrible comparison, and It has never in any way been a distraction when I've been using Windows 8. I think you should try using the OS before making terrible comparisons such as this.[/QUOTE] Did you seriously say that last sentence to dgg? Haha
[QUOTE=Doomish;45304251]Shouldn't have to, there was no reason for the change[/QUOTE] It's faster and looks prettier. That's reason enough for me.
[QUOTE=dgg;45304226]Imagine you're walking down the street, which of these two solutions do you most prefer? [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8m.jpg[/img] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Good thing I'm not walking down a street and having weird, Windows inspired hallucinations (yet) I guess? Like, that would make perfect sense if reading shit was remotely risky to the point that I shouldn't take my attention away. But the menu is usually only open for around a second at most, and if you manage to lose track of what you were doing or become really uncomfortable that something was there for that short a period of time, get checked for ADHD or something. Or just use Win+S like a reasonable human being. The full screen menu can be avoided in almost all scenarios now, so it's not really a problem. I get this is a joke and shit, but I gotta keep consistent dammit. The slightest appearance of my opinion changing will make the anti-Win8 bunch madly erect.
[QUOTE=Doomish;45304251]Shouldn't have to, there was no reason for the change[/QUOTE] So you want to act like nothing more than an old person who can't accept that things change?
[QUOTE=Doomish;45304200]Microsoft moving away from DOS was a good thing because DOS was clunky and not user-friendly, Microsoft moving away from their most cherished UI (the one that is universally liked and has worked for 15 years) in favor of making it look more like the xbox is a bad thing. Windows 8's UI's status as 'new' does not make it exempt from criticism. It's really not that hard to understand. [editline]5th July 2014[/editline] i will put it this way: people would not be arguing about it 2 years later if the win 8 UI was an objectively good design choice[/QUOTE] Microsoft saw from statistics about the use of the Start Menu that the Start Menu was generally redundant and useless to most people, it was seldom used, and when it was it was just used to search for a program. So what did they do to respond? They removed a function that statistically did not work and replaced it with a new function that offers more for people, retains the same functionality, and is designed for tablets where it will be more relevant for people to use. It caused a giant fuss, this is expected because people hate change and need to get used to it. They force it on so people don't disregard change for the sake of change. Time later on proved that it was indeed disliked, still a long time after release and Microsoft decided that the next Windows will get the Start Menu back the way people want it.
Whoa, explain this to me what is this "Workflow argument" I seriously have no idea how anyone can use this, that's an argument? isn't the entire thing based around Linux UI VS MAC UI VS Windows UI VS Metro it sounds less like you're (I don't even know who is saying this is a thing just a general statement) complaining about your workflow and more like you're frustrated with a new menu [QUOTE=dgg;45304241]I'm sorry, but your arguments don't make any sense. You hate on something because there exists a fix for it and the only reason you hate on it is because you want it to be there. You have a way to get what you want, but you don't like it because you have to do it instead of them.[/QUOTE] Windows 8 has far better support for 2 monitors, allowing multiple wallpapers and taskbars and shit like that if I want that in windows 7 I get a program like ultramon that has far more features than i need and just adds to the programs in my task bar which is fine for this situation, w8 had better support in that case. Only in the case of start menu its in reverse. Imagine if windows 9 has the same dual monitor support windows 7 had but windows 8 had better support, only its a later version. CCleaner and stuff like that doesn't run in the background the same way classic shell or ultramon does. [QUOTE=dgg;45304226]Imagine you're walking down the street, which of these two solutions do you most prefer? [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8m.jpg[/img] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Whichisbetter_w8.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] thats funny, because if you're walking down the street you aren't going to be using a mouse and keyboard and that's why people hate it, because it was made with touch in mind your argument literally makes no sense in that example.
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45304269]So you want to act like nothing more than an old person who can't accept that things change?[/QUOTE] Why do you have to blindly accept all change? Some change is bad. I don't like the fullscreen metro thing, so I switched back to win7.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45304276]Why do you have to blindly accept all change? Some change is bad. I don't like the fullscreen metro thing, so I switched back to win7.[/QUOTE] Why do people have to blindly hate all change?
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45304276]Why do you have to blindly accept all change? Some change is bad. I don't like the fullscreen metro thing, so I switched back to win7.[/QUOTE] Here's the dealio, some people actually like this particular change. Doesn't mean I like the changes YouTube do.
[QUOTE=paul simon;45304247]Now imagine sitting still in a chair and doing the same thing, where it only covers your computer screen and not your entire field of vision. That's a terrible comparison, and It has never in any way been a distraction when I've been using Windows 8. I think you should try using the OS before making terrible comparisons such as this.[/QUOTE] Paul, I have been using Windows 8 since release. [QUOTE=hexpunK;45304264]Good thing I'm not walking down a street and having weird, Windows inspired hallucinations (yet) I guess? Like, that would make perfect sense if reading shit was remotely risky to the point that I shouldn't take my attention away. But the menu is usually only open for around a second at most, and if you manage to lose track of what you were doing or become really uncomfortable that something was there for that short a period of time, get checked for ADHD or something. Or just use Win+S like a reasonable human being. The full screen menu can be avoided in almost all scenarios now, so it's not really a problem. I get this is a joke and shit, but I gotta keep consistent dammit. The slightest appearance of my opinion changing will make the anti-Win8 bunch madly erect.[/QUOTE] Like I argued earlier about this, it's about the effect. When you open the start screen you remove everything you were looking at and get a completely new environment to look at. This takes you out of whatever you were doing before and brings you into a new experience, it breaks concentration and it breaks flow. The Start Menu overlaps over whatever you are doing and does not give you a new environment, just something new to look at on top of what you're already seeing. You shift your focus, but whatever you are doing is still visible to you, and you can look back at it whenever you want. This keeps flow because you are not visually taken away from what you were doing, you are just looking at a different place within the same place.
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45304293]Why do people have to blindly hate all change?[/QUOTE] You literally just compared the people who don't like metro to old people who accept no change at all. You can't just accept that some change is bad? Just because a developer has created some GUI doesn't mean everyone has to like it. [QUOTE=paul simon;45304294]Here's the dealio, some people actually like this particular change.Doesn't mean I like the changes YouTube do.[/QUOTE] Okay, that's great, we've established that people have opinions. The problem is blindly accepting everything or not. Apparently not likely metro makes you an old person unable to accept any change?
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45304293]Why do people have to blindly hate all change?[/QUOTE] Hint: Because people are entitled to hating change. It isn't all out of nostalgia you know. it may be better, but it wasn't better for them. So they either went back to windows 7 or used classic shell.
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