Michigan Legislature raises minimum wage to $9.25 by 2018; future increases tied to inflation - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Kondor;44982886]cool! but your analogy is fiction so sorry dude but you must be talking out your butt[/QUOTE] What you are doing is the same as us comparing cell phones to tricorders and saying "hey, why the hell can't we have a full diagnostics system in our cellphones, I mean, star trek has it"

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44982774]Take a minute to realise that you're trying to justify your point of view on a real issue by referencing a piece of [i]fiction[/i]. Do you understand what 'fiction' means? God forbid you ever have to write an assignment and use references.[/QUOTE] he's just using that as an example holy shit

[QUOTE=M_B;44985430]he's just using that as an example holy shit[/QUOTE] A movie isn't an example for real life arguments. That's the whole point.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44972633]Well not literally required, but it's socially unacceptable to not do it. If they were given a minimum age salary, there would be a lot less tipping (and tipping less money) because it would no longer be viewed as necessary.[/QUOTE] I'm of the belief that everyone working full time should be able to get a living wage, but I don't think tipping should be abolished altogether. It should be acceptable to tip anyone who you feel deserves it, not just wait staff and taxi drivers, but if everyone was getting a living wage the whole concept could be truly optional. I'd happily tip trash collectors and mail carriers every now and then but in positions like that they're not actually allowed to accept tips.

[QUOTE=sgman91;44985444]A movie isn't an example for real life arguments. That's the whole point.[/QUOTE] it's an example of common dialogue, i understand it's the result of creativity on Quentin Tarantino's part, but it's not like his dialogue was or is without some form of inspiration. that scene, the way it is written and acted out in the film, portrays a very common debate with equally common arguments made on a fairly regular basis. they're just never documented because, well, who gives a shit enough to document it? but if we're going to say that's a horrible example because it's fiction, try to find a nonfictional example citing nobody has that opinion, or that arguments such as that within the film have never existed in real life. go on, find a counter example, one that's truthful. you're going to have a very difficult time. and that's why kondor's example really isn't a bad one, and why huffing and puffing and blurting "well that'sh jusht fickshun!" is simply sophomoric.

[QUOTE=FFStudios;44969062]Yes, I get it. Don't go into a service industry where you know the terms and conditions before you sign on. A marine biologist does not get hired to do mathematics. Lawyers do not get hired to do plumbing. You don't try to fit the square peg in the round hole. If you're not good at waiting people, don't take the job. You're bound to get fired eventually anyway. If this were literally any other job profession I'd agree with you, but it isn't.[/QUOTE] There's not enough jobs to pick and choose though. The very poorest people take whatever jobs they can get and, often, that's only in the service industry because service industry employers don't have to pay them shit, since they supposedly make enough in tips. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;44983178]Please tell me I'm not the only person with no idea what this guy is trying to say.[/QUOTE] I believe he was saying that a lot of people tip because they feel obligated too because the people serving them need tips to make a decent living, since they get paid so little. Which isn't far off what you were saying. I don't know why he called you deranged, though. That part was weird.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44960894]Every time a foreigner says this they demonstrate how they don't actually understand tipping.[/QUOTE] We understand tipping just fine. It's just that the standard tip outside of the US tends to be - nearest round up up to ten percent. And more if it was an exceptional job. You buy something worth 5.10 for instance - you pay 6 more or less. In the US, the minimum tip generally is about 15-20%.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;44982287]Because we've seen the alternative. There's a reason that every time someone brings up adopting socialism, the argument against it is merely "just look at europe".[/QUOTE] Do people say "look at europe" as if it's bad over here or something? We have better internet, better public transport, cheap/free education, free healthcare, basically no mass shootings, and "it's unconstitutional" isn't something we hear blocking sane thoughts all the time. Whats wrong with europe?

[QUOTE=sambooo;44987015]Do people say "look at europe" as if it's bad over here or something? We have better internet, better public transport, cheap/free education, free healthcare, basically no mass shootings, and "it's unconstitutional" isn't something we hear blocking sane thoughts all the time. Whats wrong with europe?[/QUOTE] I think most of the western world has it better than the US. We have all of the above minus better Internet, but that's only if you live in a rural area and we are a country the size of a continent after all (and our healthcare is only massively subsidised, but still universal). Also most western nations other than the US have more than two parties simultaneously in elected positions in their national legislatures lol.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;44982287]Because we've seen the alternative. There's a reason that every time someone brings up adopting socialism, the argument against it is merely "just look at europe".[/QUOTE] but the argument for it is also "just look at europe"

Good. I like to think an hour of human life is worth more than 7.25

[QUOTE=sambooo;44987015]Do people say "look at europe" as if it's bad over here or something? We have better internet, better public transport, cheap/free education, free healthcare, basically no mass shootings, and "it's unconstitutional" isn't something we hear blocking sane thoughts all the time. Whats wrong with europe?[/QUOTE] Well, for one, taxes. That's a pretty big freakin' deal.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;44992302]Well, for one, taxes. That's a pretty big freakin' deal.[/QUOTE] Imagine having to pay for nice things. I think i can hear Reagan rolling in his grave.

Also an emphasis on public transport isn't something to be proud of, most americans would just see that as the populace being unable to afford private transport.

How does the low tipping wage thing work with things like paid holiday and sick pay though? I work for a supermarket in the UK and I get 5-6 weeks of paid holiday a year and a month's sick pay before I have to rely on Statutory Sick Pay - but if I was being paid that low wage I'd lose money by taking time off (and even if you just paid got minimum wage for it you'd probably still lose money).

[QUOTE=Camundongo;44992446]How does the low tipping wage thing work with things like paid holiday and sick pay though? I work for a supermarket in the UK and I get 5-6 weeks of paid holiday a year and a month's sick pay before I have to rely on Statutory Sick Pay - but if I was being paid that low wage I'd lose money by taking time off (and even if you just paid got minimum wage for it you'd probably still lose money).[/QUOTE] I don't think that part-time workers even get those in the US. And to be fair, if you're a casual worker here you don't get them either (thankfully I'm part-time, I could actually have a three week paid holiday if I wanted to right now).

[QUOTE=sgman91;44982670]BS, I've literally never heard anyone say that they tipped a server more because they felt that they were "economic slaves."[/QUOTE] The folks I go out with tend to tip at the higher end because some of them have been waitresses and they know it's kind of a shitty job. Just countering your anecdote with mine.

Wow, I'm lucky with the tipping system. Where I deliver they don't split my wage and make me make it up with tips. But I'm still at minimum wage of $7.25/hr. Not to mention I can have shitty nights where I barely get $10 for tips because it's not busy at all.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44983565]bartenders make a killing in tips, despite being a mostly skilless job. [editline]2nd June 2014[/editline] i know a lot of people that will tip more than 1 dollar a beer. if a bartender can pour a beer in under 30 seconds, then you're making 120 dollars just in tips in a single hour.[/QUOTE] From what I hear from waitress friends (no bartender friends unfortunately) you make a killing on Friday or Saturday nights (hundreds of dollars in tips alone) and then the rest of the week you scrape by at or just above minimum wage.

[QUOTE=tristanguy2;44992604]Wow, I'm lucky with the tipping system. Where I deliver they don't split my wage and make me make it up with tips. But I'm still at minimum wage of $7.25/hr. Not to mention I can have shitty nights where I barely get $10 for tips because it's not busy at all.[/QUOTE] What is with employment culture in the US and always paying bare minimum? Heaps of people are saying that they get paid right at the minimum wage. When I was 18 and my minimum wage was $10 per hour, I was getting paid $13.83 per hour to pack shelves (base rate wage that is, get paid 1.2x whenever I'm called in). When I turned 19 and my minimum wage went up to $14 per hour, my wage went up to $16.30 per hour. I get roughly $20 per hour when I'm 20, where my minimum wage would be $17 per hour. I definitely don't advocate for anything close to militant unionism, but you guys really need something to help in wage negotiations. Our wages are adjusted every year via negotiations between our union and our employer (and that is pretty much the only thing our union does). It's happening right now actually. The new enterprise bargaining agreement applies to non-union employees like me as well.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44992587]The folks I go out with tend to tip at the higher end because some of them have been waitresses and they know it's kind of a shitty job. Just countering your anecdote with mine.[/QUOTE] Good thing I didn't make the original claim and have no burden of proof. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;44992773]What is with employment culture in the US and always paying bare minimum? Heaps of people are saying that they get paid right at the minimum wage. When I was 18 and my minimum wage was $10 per hour, I was getting paid $13.83 per hour to pack shelves (base rate wage that is, get paid 1.2x whenever I'm called in). When I turned 19 and my minimum wage went up to $14 per hour, my wage went up to $16.30 per hour. I get roughly $20 per hour when I'm 20, where my minimum wage would be $17 per hour. I definitely don't advocate for anything close to militant unionism, but you guys really need something to help in wage negotiations. Our wages are adjusted every year via negotiations between our union and our employer (and that is pretty much the only thing our union does). It's happening right now actually. The new enterprise bargaining agreement applies to non-union employees like me as well.[/QUOTE] 3% of people over the age of 25 make minimum wage or below (including those who get tips as the majority of their wage. So it's really much less than this.) and only 2% of all full time workers make minimum wage. ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm[/URL]) I wouldn't call 2% of full time workers a cultural phenomena. Interestingly, the percent of workers on minimum wage doesn't vary much by race either.

[QUOTE=sgman91;44993053]Good thing I didn't make the original claim and have no burden of proof. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] 3% of people over the age of 25 make minimum wage or below (including those who get tips as the majority of their wage. So it's really much less than this.) and only 2% of all full time workers make minimum wage. ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm[/URL]) I wouldn't call 2% of full time workers a cultural phenomena. Interestingly, the percent of workers on minimum wage doesn't vary much by race either.[/QUOTE] "1.6 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage" A company could pay someone $7.26/h and that wouldn't be minimum wage.

[QUOTE=patq911;44995111]"1.6 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage" A company could pay someone $7.26/h and that wouldn't be minimum wage.[/QUOTE] Providing a possible anecdotal scenario isn't an argument. I've given the real stats. If you want to disagree please give something comparable.