Taliban leaders reaching out to senior Afghan officials, to begin reconciliation talks.

[Dr_Funk]

Alright, mate. Come on then. Enlighten me to the true virtuous glory of the Taliban.

[Afgman]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25119591]Alright, mate. Come on then. Enlighten me to the true virtuous glory of the Taliban.[/QUOTE]

They do some bad things but I am started to think their reports are kind of skewed.

Like the time when that one guy from balochistan was captured by the USA detained at Guntnamao Bay and than they let him go and he made the Pakistani taliban after he was released from Guntnamo Bay.

Makes any sense?

[Gmod_Fan77]

[QUOTE=Visorak06;25113840]Too good to be true. These guys are freaking terrorists, why would you trust them with the track record they have?[/QUOTE]

Well, the Taliban's not on the losing side as of recent. It's best to quit while they're ahead, the Taliban know that. It's not long until endless waves of hundreds of thousands of troops and vehicles ship over from America and Europe, numbers the Taliban doesn't even have enough bullets to stop. The Taliban can win tactically, but the Coalition has a gigantic attrition advantage and strategic advantage.

Anyway, I think this is real, but I'm not sure how long the talks will take.

[editline]08:50PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25119470]Oh yeah, they're actually just heroic freedom fighters struggling against Western imperialism. Never mind the torturing and murdering of their people, execution of aid workers,severe oppression of womens' rights. I don't know what kind of world you live in, but I know too many people who've had their lives shattered by the Taliban to think of them remotely as good guys.[/QUOTE]

There are two different groups fighting, all falsely considered the "Taliban".

1. Insurgents: Afghan people attempting to overthrow the corrupt Afghan government and keep out Western governments, who they think are imperialistic and corrupt. Many use what happened in Iraq as reason that there's a need to fight, lest they lose their sovereignty.

2. Taliban: radical Islamic sect, bent on taking power in the country to establish a strangehold of control. Not afraid to commit slaughters and massacres of its own people, but believes in has the best in mind for the end.

[editline]08:50PM[/editline]

I disagree entirely with the purposes of group 2, but group 1 I strongly support.

God forbid someone try to maintain their independence from the West. :downs:

[Afgman]

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;25119927]Well, the Taliban's not on the losing side as of recent. It's best to quit while they're ahead, the Taliban know that. It's not long until endless waves of hundreds of thousands of troops and vehicles ship over from America and Europe, numbers the Taliban doesn't even have enough bullets to stop. The Taliban can win tactically, but the Coalition has a gigantic attrition advantage and strategic advantage.

Anyway, I think this is real, but I'm not sure how long the talks will take.

[editline]08:50PM[/editline]

There are two different groups fighting, all falsely considered the "Taliban".

1. Insurgents: Afghan people attempting to overthrow the corrupt Afghan government and keep out Western governments, who they think are imperialistic and corrupt. Many use what happened in Iraq as reason that there's a need to fight, lest they lose their sovereignty.

2. Taliban: radical Islamic sect, bent on taking power in the country to establish a strangehold of control. Not afraid to commit slaughters and massacres of its own people, but believes in has the best in mind for the end.

[editline]08:50PM[/editline]

I disagree entirely with the purposes of group 2, but group 1 I strongly support.

God forbid someone try to maintain their independence from the West. :downs:[/QUOTE]

Taliban had good intentions at first but I think they went down hill as soon as they brought in suicide bombing.

[Dr_Funk]

The Taliban wished and wish to impose brutal Sharia law. I'm sure they thought they were in the right - but they weren't.

^^ So, you've got a whole collection of different insurgent groups fighting for power. Let's assume the West packs up and leaves Afghanistan - then what? Are all the armed militant groups suddenly going to hold hands and form a utopia? Hardly - there'll be another bloody power struggle, and we're back to step one. The country's not just going to sort itself out. Iraq's had American influence, and it's actually improving.

[Afgman]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25120698]The Taliban wished and wish to impose brutal Sharia law. I'm sure they thought they were in the right - but they weren't.

^^ So, you've got a whole collection of different insurgent groups fighting for power. Let's assume the West packs up and leaves Afghanistan - then what? Are all the armed militant groups suddenly going to hold hands and form a utopia? Hardly - there'll be another bloody power struggle, and we're back to step one. The country's not just going to sort itself out. Iraq's had American influence, and it's actually improving.[/QUOTE]

Go read Soveiet Afghan War. People got sick of Warlordism so Mullah Omar formed The Taliban which made the country a better place. Brutal Shirah law? Got look at some Islamic Empires of Afghanistan under Shirah Law. Wow, the Country will not sort its self out that is one of the most naive claims I have ever heard. Iraq is in a bad state right now and the elected leaders are most likely money leaches. Who helped Sadam hussein a few years ago against Iran ^_^? Some countries do not need Americas help. God forbid they do not take aid from America.

[Warhol]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25119470]Oh yeah, they're actually just heroic freedom fighters struggling against Western imperialism. Never mind the torturing and murdering of their people, execution of aid workers,severe oppression of womens' rights. I don't know what kind of world you live in, but I know too many people who've had their lives shattered by the Taliban to think of them remotely as good guys.[/QUOTE]

The US does similar shit.

[editline]03:59AM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25120698]The Taliban wished and wish to impose brutal Sharia law. I'm sure they thought they were in the right - but they weren't.

^^ So, you've got a whole collection of different insurgent groups fighting for power. Let's assume the West packs up and leaves Afghanistan - then what? Are all the armed militant groups suddenly going to hold hands and form a utopia? Hardly - there'll be another bloody power struggle, and we're back to step one. The country's not just going to sort itself out. Iraq's had American influence, and it's actually improving.[/QUOTE]

The Insurgency is decentralised.

[Dr_Funk]

[QUOTE=Afgman;25121197]Go read Soveiet Afghan War. People got sick of Warlordism so Mullah Omar formed The Taliban which made the country a better place. Brutal Shirah law? Got look at some Islamic Empires of Afghanistan under Shirah Law. Wow, the Country will not sort its self out that is one of the most naive claims I have ever heard. Iraq is in a bad state right now and the elected leaders are most likely money leaches. Who helped Sadam hussein a few years ago against Iran ^_^? Some countries do not need Americas help. God forbid they do not take aid from America.[/QUOTE]

Blowing up girls schools, targeting minorities and public executions did not make Afghanistan a better place.

No, Iraq's not perfect - however, it actually IS improving, and without a murderous dictator at the helm. This is all happening WITH America's, and other Western nations', help.That's what makes the Afghanistan war such a hellish situation for the Westerners - they're not having much success against the insurgency, but pulling out now will just collapse the country into chaos.

[QUOTE=Warhol;25122587]The US does similar shit.

[editline]03:59AM[/editline]

The Insurgency is decentralised.[/QUOTE]

I don't care what the US does, regardless of the fact that the US is nowhere near as evil as this. This isn't about the US; this is about the Taliban.

I've also heard all the arguments that it's not just one big single entity, numerous insurgent groups, although I'm yet to see any sources or facts. However, you can't argue that because of this, the Taliban actually doesn't exist - they do exist, they call themselves the Taliban and they perpetrate barbaric evils.

[PassTheBong]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25123018]
I don't care what the US does, regardless of the fact that the US is nowhere near as evil as this. [/QUOTE]

spoken like a true patriot:clint:

[Lachz0r]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25123018]Blowing up girls schools, targeting minorities and public executions did not make Afghanistan a better place.

No, Iraq's not perfect - however, it actually IS improving, and without a murderous dictator at the helm. This is all happening WITH America's, and other Western nations', help.That's what makes the Afghanistan war such a hellish situation for the Westerners - they're not having much success against the insurgency, but pulling out now will just collapse the country into chaos.[/QUOTE]

Iraq was actually a stable country with Saddam at the helm. It was actual a stable DEMOCRACY before America helped the party that Saddam was a part of violently overthrow them.

[JLea]

here's some cool pics of the Taliban!

[IMG]http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/Taliban%20Execution%20in%20Herat.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rawa.org/zarmina1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rawa.org/beating5.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_n6n9HOi97PI/S9NwQH5tACI/AAAAAAAAAEI/zYUqFEEja6E/s320/burned-beauticians-tease_300w.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://angrywhitedude.com/wp-content/uploads2/2010/08/taliban-negotiators.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg[/IMG]

(Destruction of the Buddhas of Bamyan, a hand carved piece of history created in the 5th century.)

[quote]"Muslims should be proud of smashing idols. It has given praise to God that we have destroyed them"[/quote]
[quote]19-yr-old, Bibi Aisha's nose and ears were chopped off as punishment for fleeing her abusive husband[/quote]

[QUOTE=Warhol;25122587]The US does similar shit.
[/QUOTE]

but this shit happens in the US like Warhol said, so really if you don't support non-revisionist Islam in these countries, you're just a [B]fascist AmeriKKKan bourgeoisie aristocratic imperialist[/B] [B]piece of shit[/B]. Long live the third world.

[hypno-toad]

Here's some cool pics of the US military!

[IMG]http://www.humanistart.com/images/nick_ut.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.photius.com/rogue_nations/abu_ghraib_prison_antiwar_com_files/torture4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.bloggerheads.com/abu_ghraib/iraq_torture_01.jpg[/IMG]

My Lai massacre

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/My_Lai_massacre.jpg[/IMG]

Bombing of Baghdad

[IMG]http://www.esoterically.net/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/iraq_bombing.jpg[/IMG]

I could find much more if I knew good sources.

You can go and find atrocities and other horrible things committed by any military faction. In laments terms; Shit happens. The Taliban is a fighting force armed with outdated small arms, has no armored vehicles or aerial support. They are fighting an overwhelming military force, thus must resort to dirty tactics. You cannot take on a military force 10-20x your size, with vastly superior technology and training without resorting to suicide bombings, terror tactics, and dressing as civilians to ambush.

There is no evil in this world, whatever action the Taliban or Al-Queda commits is one they obviously believe to be of a just cause. You may think of them as doing horrible things, but obviously they see the west as the spawn of evil. Why? I don't know, I can't really imagine myself seeing it their way, but do not presume that The western fighting force in iraq and Afghanistan are the 'good guys." Many civilians have died both willfully and accidentally at the hands of the NATO forces.The middle east is a world different from ours, and it's not worth the time, nor the effort to go there and impose western society on them. that part of the world needs to sort [I]itself [/I]out.

Also, it's not fair to generalize with the taliban. I once saw a documentary interviewing masked insurgents in Iraq (for the life of me I havn't been able to find it on the web :frown:). A majority of them are clearly religious lunatics, but many of them have level headed reasons for doing what they are doing. On a side note, if anybody knows the documentary I am talking about, I would love to get the name, I saw it in 2004 or 2005...

[Superstormj]

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/20qytj6.jpg[/IMG]
Yes, I seriously just made this caption on the photo. I'm bored, and it fits nicely with the situation.

[Col. Buggernuts]

[QUOTE=Superstormj;25125879][IMG_thumb]http://i53.tinypic.com/20qytj6.jpg[/IMG_thumb]
Yes, I seriously just made this caption on the photo. I'm bored, and it fits nicely with the situation.[/QUOTE]How the hell does it fit in nicely with the situation? We should disregard any potential for a ceasefire with the Taliban and go along with the same old hooah bullshit that hasn't stopped them for 9 years? (19 years if you include the 10 that the Soviets were in there for)

[Dr_Funk]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;25125826]
You can go and find atrocities and other horrible things committed by any military faction. In laments terms; Shit happens. The Taliban is a fighting force armed with outdated small arms, has no armored vehicles or aerial support. They are fighting an overwhelming military force, thus must resort to dirty tactics. You cannot take on a military force 10-20x your size, with vastly superior technology and training without resorting to suicide bombings, terror tactics, and dressing as civilians to ambush.

There is no evil in this world, whatever action the Taliban or Al-Queda commits is one they obviously believe to be of a just cause. You may think of them as doing horrible things, but obviously they see the west as the spawn of evil. Why? I don't know, I can't really imagine myself seeing it their way, but do not presume that The western fighting force in iraq and Afghanistan are the 'good guys." Many civilians have died both willfully and accidentally at the hands of the NATO forces.The middle east is a world different from ours, and it's not worth the time, nor the effort to go there and impose western society on them. that part of the world needs to sort [I]itself [/I]out.

Also, it's not fair to generalize with the taliban. I once saw a documentary interviewing masked insurgents in Iraq (for the life of me I havn't been able to find it on the web :frown:). A majority of them are clearly religious lunatics, but many of them have level headed reasons for doing what they are doing. On a side note, if anybody knows the documentary I am talking about, I would love to get the name, I saw it in 2004 or 2005...[/QUOTE]

Haven't you seen anything? Killing aid workers, massacring civilians, and oppressing minorities, among other lovely tricks, are not valid or necessary military tactics - they're barbaric actions, and CANNOT be justified. And please, don't start on the "all is relative" train-of-thought. Some things are inherently, self-evidently wrong. What the Taliban does is wrong; end of story. Not just wrong from our point of view, but plain immoral. While I understand the need not to try and force your culture upon others, public executions cannot be tolerated simply because they were the norm.

[JLea]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;25125826]Here's some cool pics of the US military!

[IMG]http://www.humanistart.com/images/nick_ut.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.photius.com/rogue_nations/abu_ghraib_prison_antiwar_com_files/torture4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.bloggerheads.com/abu_ghraib/iraq_torture_01.jpg[/IMG]

My Lai massacre

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/My_Lai_massacre.jpg[/IMG]

I could find much more if I knew good sources.

You can go and find atrocities and other horrible things committed by any military faction. In laments terms; Shit happens. The Taliban is a fighting force armed with outdated small arms, has no armored vehicles or aerial support. They are fighting an overwhelming military force, thus must resort to dirty tactics. You cannot take on a military force 10-20x your size, with vastly superior technology and training without resorting to suicide bombings, terror tactics, and dressing as civilians to ambush.

There is no evil in this world, whatever action the Taliban or Al-Queda commits is one they obviously believe to be of a just cause. You may think of them as doing horrible things, but obviously they see the west as the spawn of evil. Why? I don't know, I can't really imagine myself seeing it their way, but do not presume that The western fighting force in iraq and Afghanistan are the 'good guys." Many civilians have died both willfully and accidentally at the hands of the NATO forces.The middle east is a world different from ours, and it's not worth the time, nor the effort to go there and impose western society on them. that part of the world needs to sort [I]itself [/I]out.

Also, it's not fair to generalize with the taliban. I once saw a documentary interviewing masked insurgents in Iraq (for the life of me I havn't been able to find it on the web :frown:). A majority of them are clearly religious lunatics, but many of them have level headed reasons for doing what they are doing. On a side note, if anybody knows the documentary I am talking about, I would love to get the name, I saw it in 2004 or 2005...[/QUOTE]

ughhh i can't believe im having this argument

those are one off, incidents with the US military. there's like 1 million active personnel, of course shit like that is going to happen (and in WAR no doubt).

we're talking about a faction which has brutalization of women, suppression of ANY ideas that'd detract from islamic worship (statues, music, flying kites for fucks sake), barbaric punishment (cutting off hands and limbs for adultery), genocide of minority populations, male children as sex slaves AS POLICIES. as in THIS IS THE LAW.

and here we have you being all "[IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG][IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG][IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG] we must respect the ways of their lives the west is much worse". defend the northern alliance or something, but not the fucking taliban jesus christ.

if you want to know about cool afghan insurgents, go look at the Mujahideen during the soviet occupation. (they were fighting to keep their country independent, not for some babby faerie tale)

[hypno-toad]

And you think every action of the Taliban is well documented from their point of view? Only their atrocities and bombings are reported on, the other 70% of the Taliban are footsoldiers fighting off somebody they see as an enemy for whatever reason they have. Don't forget that a good number of US soldiers are jarheads who think that Saddam Huessien is a member of Al-Quada and helped orchestrate the 9/11 attack; just as a large proportion of Taliban are fundamentalist lunatics. Neither are good motives. Clearly if the majority of Afghans don't believe in those shitty views, then the Taliban woudln't be close to retaining power.

Regardless of anybody's views, invading afghanistan has not solved any problems and has only really made the situation worse. Anybody with any intuition would have seen that coming. It doesn't matter if you think the Taliban are horrible, a country like that has to resolve it's own issues over time, invading them is not going to do shit. If a country with a vicious track-record like the soviets couldn't subdue afghanistan, what makes you think NATO can?

[Lachz0r]

[QUOTE=JLea;25126290]ughhh i can't believe im having this argument

those are one off, incidents with the US military. there's like 1 million active personnel, of course shit like that is going to happen (and in WAR no doubt).

we're talking about a faction which has brutalization of women, suppression of ANY ideas that'd detract from islamic worship (statues, music, flying kites for fucks sake), barbaric punishment (cutting off hands and limbs for adultery), genocide of minority populations, male children as sex slaves AS POLICIES. as in THIS IS THE LAW.

and here we have you being all "[IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG][IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG][IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG] we must respect the ways of their lives the west is much worse". defend the northern alliance or something, but not the fucking taliban jesus christ.

if you want to know about cool afghan insurgents, go look at the Mujahideen during the soviet occupation. (they were fighting to keep their country independent, not for some babby faerie tale)[/QUOTE]

i agree that the taliban are pricks but seriously if theres a chance for a ceasefire it should be taken. this war is pointless and hasn't achieved anything. by the way the Mujahideen who fought against the soviet occupation are the same ones fighting against the US occupation.

[-n3o-]

This War has been going on too long. Let the talk's begin.

[JLea]

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;25126499]i agree that the taliban are pricks but seriously if theres a chance for a ceasefire it should be taken. this war is pointless and hasn't achieved anything. by the way the Mujahideen who fought against the soviet occupation are the same ones fighting against the US occupation.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;25126486]And you think every action of the Taliban is well documented from their point of view? Only their atrocities and bombings are reported on, the other 70% of the Taliban are footsoldiers fighting off somebody they see as an enemy for whatever reason they have. Don't forget that a good number of US soldiers are jarheads who think that Saddam Huessien is a member of Al-Quada and helped orchestrate the 9/11 attack; just as a large proportion of Taliban are fundamentalist lunatics. Neither are good motives. Clearly if the majority of Afghans don't believe in those shitty views, then the Taliban woudln't be close to retaining power.

Regardless of anybody's views, invading afghanistan has not solved any problems and has only really made the situation worse. Anybody with any intuition would have seen that coming. It doesn't matter if you think the Taliban are horrible, a country like that has to resolve it's own issues over time, invading them is not going to do shit. If a country with a vicious track-record like the soviets couldn't subdue afghanistan, what makes you think NATO can?[/QUOTE]

I'm not against that, I'm just against someone comparing the USA to the Taliban.

[editline]08:15PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;25126499]by the way the Mujahideen who fought against the soviet occupation are the same ones fighting against the US occupation.[/QUOTE]

some, but most joined the northern alliance

[hypno-toad]

The USA cannot be compared on the same level as the Taliban because it's a defined Military force and the Taliban is not. Blackwater is probably a good comparison of what US forces can be capable of when not abound by the guise of democracy. Militias and Insurgencies are always ruthless and underhanded, their political and moral views are irrelevant.

But don't post pictures of atrocities like they are the only thing that happens, the Inner core of beliefs are probably only held by a smaller proportion of the Taliban as a whole, just as there are select people in the US military who hold views that many other people would find very questionable. I'm not saying the Taliban is good, but they are not a bunch of animals with no unique convictions or motives.

[Dr_Funk]

Political and moral values are highly important in an insurgency. There's a difference between "I want to free my country" and "I want to free my country and persecute minorities, oppress women and publicly execute all those who get in my way. Don't pretend they've got no choice - this is their choice, and it's the wrong choice.

Secondly, this isn't just some splinter sect of the Taliban - this is the Taliban's actual policies, set by their leadership and followed by their members.

[Warhol]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25123018]Blowing up girls schools, targeting minorities and public executions did not make Afghanistan a better place.

No, Iraq's not perfect - however, it actually IS improving, and without a murderous dictator at the helm. This is all happening WITH America's, and other Western nations', help.That's what makes the Afghanistan war such a hellish situation for the Westerners - they're not having much success against the insurgency, but pulling out now will just collapse the country into chaos.[/quote]
Iraq is improving? Like fucking barely.

[quote]I don't care what the US does, regardless of the fact that the US is nowhere near as evil as this. This isn't about the US; this is about the Taliban.

I've also heard all the arguments that it's not just one big single entity, numerous insurgent groups, although I'm yet to see any sources or facts. However, you can't argue that because of this, the Taliban actually doesn't exist - they do exist, they call themselves the Taliban and they perpetrate barbaric evils.[/QUOTE]

What the fuck do you think an insurgency is?

[editline]12:51PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=JLea;25125602]but this shit happens in the US like Warhol said, so really if you don't support non-revisionist Islam in these countries, you're just a [B]fascist AmeriKKKan bourgeoisie aristocratic imperialist[/B] [B]piece of shit[/B]. Long live the third world.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;25125826]Here's some cool pics of the US military!

[IMG]http://www.humanistart.com/images/nick_ut.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.photius.com/rogue_nations/abu_ghraib_prison_antiwar_com_files/torture4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.bloggerheads.com/abu_ghraib/iraq_torture_01.jpg[/IMG]

My Lai massacre

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/My_Lai_massacre.jpg[/IMG]

Bombing of Baghdad

[IMG]http://www.esoterically.net/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/iraq_bombing.jpg[/IMG]

I could find much more if I knew good sources.

You can go and find atrocities and other horrible things committed by any military faction. In laments terms; Shit happens. The Taliban is a fighting force armed with outdated small arms, has no armored vehicles or aerial support. They are fighting an overwhelming military force, thus must resort to dirty tactics. You cannot take on a military force 10-20x your size, with vastly superior technology and training without resorting to suicide bombings, terror tactics, and dressing as civilians to ambush.

There is no evil in this world, whatever action the Taliban or Al-Queda commits is one they obviously believe to be of a just cause. You may think of them as doing horrible things, but obviously they see the west as the spawn of evil. Why? I don't know, I can't really imagine myself seeing it their way, but do not presume that The western fighting force in iraq and Afghanistan are the 'good guys." Many civilians have died both willfully and accidentally at the hands of the NATO forces.The middle east is a world different from ours, and it's not worth the time, nor the effort to go there and impose western society on them. that part of the world needs to sort [I]itself [/I]out.

Also, it's not fair to generalize with the taliban. I once saw a documentary interviewing masked insurgents in Iraq (for the life of me I havn't been able to find it on the web :frown:). A majority of them are clearly religious lunatics, but many of them have level headed reasons for doing what they are doing. On a side note, if anybody knows the documentary I am talking about, I would love to get the name, I saw it in 2004 or 2005...[/QUOTE]

hurp

[editline]12:51PM[/editline]

how do i agent orange?

[editline]12:52PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Superstormj;25125879][IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/20qytj6.jpg[/IMG]
Yes, I seriously just made this caption on the photo. I'm bored, and it fits nicely with the situation.[/QUOTE]

Are you like 12? Grow the fuck up.

[editline]12:53PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25126244]Haven't you seen anything? Killing aid workers, massacring civilians, and oppressing minorities, among other lovely tricks, are not valid or necessary military tactics - they're barbaric actions, and CANNOT be justified. And please, don't start on the "all is relative" train-of-thought. Some things are inherently, self-evidently wrong. What the Taliban does is wrong; end of story. Not just wrong from our point of view, but plain immoral. While I understand the need not to try and force your culture upon others, public executions cannot be tolerated simply because they were the norm.[/QUOTE]

Again, the US military does the same shit and the Taliban is decentralised. So holy fuck, stop posting.

[editline]01:01PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=JLea;25126290]ughhh i can't believe im having this argument[/quote]
oh no, oh no, dissent!

[quote]those are one off, incidents with the US military. there's like 1 million active personnel, of course shit like that is going to happen (and in WAR no doubt).[/quote]
and what you posted... wasn't?

And there's several hundred thousand DECENTRALISED Insurgents. The US military has an organised and central structure of people who come from a FIRST world country

[quote]we're talking about a faction which has brutalization of women, suppression of ANY ideas that'd detract from islamic worship (statues, music, flying kites for fucks sake), barbaric punishment (cutting off hands and limbs for adultery), genocide of minority populations, male children as sex slaves AS POLICIES. as in THIS IS THE LAW.[/quote]
Source for this.

[quote]and here we have you being all "we must respect the ways of their lives the west is much worse". defend the northern alliance or something, but not the fucking taliban jesus christ.[/quote]
lol, this part lost ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL credibility after then next post.

[quote]if you want to know about cool afghan insurgents, go look at the Mujahideen during the soviet occupation. (they were fighting to keep their country independent, not for some babby faerie tale)[/QUOTE]
The CIA backed terrorist group that wanted a Coup?

The Soviets were there Legally. The Government was supported by them. They weren't fucking keeping their country independent. Are you fucking retarded?

Lol, you mean the Mujahideen that did the same shit, if not WORSE, as the Taliban and later became a certain group led by a certain dude who did this?
[img]http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_03/911RTRS_468x683.jpg[/img]

Y'know, your post was... well, sorta understandable. Up until you said this paragraph. Now you're just a bad joke.

[editline]01:02PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=JLea;25126617]I'm not against that, I'm just against someone comparing the USA to the Taliban.

[editline]08:15PM[/editline]

some, but most joined the northern alliance[/QUOTE]

The Northern Alliance are still sympathetic to Al Quaeda.

[editline]01:03PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;25127051]Political and moral values are highly important in an insurgency. There's a difference between "I want to free my country" and "I want to free my country and persecute minorities, oppress women and publicly execute all those who get in my way. Don't pretend they've got no choice - this is their choice, and it's the wrong choice.

Secondly, this isn't just some splinter sect of the Taliban - this is the Taliban's actual policies, set by their leadership and followed by their members.[/QUOTE]

The Taliban are not the fucking government. And you STILL haven't sourced any of that.

The Taliban USED to be an organised military, but now it's a decentralised insurgency.

[JLea]

[quote]Source for this.[/quote]Sure thing!

[URL="http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm"]Taliban Oppression of Women[/URL]
[URL="http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-25/world/afghan.acid.attack_1_taliban-militants-acid-attack-kandahar?_s=PM:WORLD"]Acid Attacks[/URL]
[URL="http://www.hazara.net/taliban/taliban.html"]Genocide of the Hazara ethnicity[/URL]
[URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/28/INF21F2Q9H.DTL"]Afghan Pedophilia[/URL] (my mistake, this applies to ALL afghans)

and I'm fairly sure i don't need links on the others because they're common knowledge and well documented.

[quote]The Soviets were there Legally.[/quote]if you want to call it "legally" considering the government at that time had just overthrown the preexisting one. they didn't have much support with the general population

[editline]12:58AM[/editline]

and source on the Northern Alliance being Al-Queada affiliated? Because everywhere I've read they were created as a response TO the taliban/pakistan

[Warhol]

[QUOTE=JLea;25129150]Sure thing![/quote]
your sources suck

[quote][URL="http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm"]Taliban Oppression of Women[/URL][/quote]
RAWA is a Radical feminist group. And there's like no evidence for any of this.
[quote][URL="http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-25/world/afghan.acid.attack_1_taliban-militants-acid-attack-kandahar?_s=PM:WORLD"]Acid Attacks[/URL][/quote]
10 people who were ARRESTED.
[quote][URL="http://www.hazara.net/taliban/taliban.html"]Genocide of the Hazara ethnicity[/URL][/quote]
What does this prove?
[quote][URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/28/INF21F2Q9H.DTL"]Afghan Pedophilia[/URL] (my mistake, this applies to ALL afghans)[/quote]
How is this applicable to the Taliban?

[quote]if you want to call it "legally" considering the government at that time had just overthrown the preexisting one. they didn't have much support with the general population[/quote]
so the people don't support it... That means it's ok to overthrow them?

[quote]and source on the Northern Alliance being Al-Queada affiliated? Because everywhere I've read they were created as a response TO the taliban/pakistan[/QUOTE]
When Bin Laden was held up in Souther mountains and bush outsourced the job to the Northern Alliance... Who did nothing and let him escape.

[JLea]

[QUOTE=Warhol;25129253]
RAWA is a Radical feminist group. And there's like no evidence for any of this. [/QUOTE]no they arent you chavunist. how about... some.................[sp]sources?[/sp]

have you not spend the last 10 years hearing interviews on radio/tv documented about taliban attrocities? what the fuck man

[URL="http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/09/16/taliban-jihadists-cut-off-teachers-ears-as-punishment"]here[/URL](this links to removed news article so dont go "your sources suck'

[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/taliban-pakistan-justice-women-flogging"]guardian article on more taliban being shitty people[/URL]

[quote] 10 people who were ARRESTED. [/quote]irrelevant. thats like saying if a us soldier is punished for shooting a civillian its all ok

[quote] What does this prove? [/quote]you asked for a source so i gave you one

[quote] How is this applicable to the Taliban? [/quote]im not sure if you've worked this out, but taliban are actually predominantly from Afghanistan

[quote] so the people don't support it... That means it's ok to overthrow them? [/quote]well... yes? isn't that the whole point. im pretty sure if the people wanted a socialist revolution in Ireland or wherever you're from you'd support it.

[quote]
When Bin Laden was held up in Souther mountains and bush outsourced the job to the Northern Alliance... Who did nothing and let him escape.[/quote]that doesnt mean they're sympathetic

[Warhol]

[QUOTE=JLea;25129484]no they arent you chavunist. how about... some.................[sp]sources?[/sp][/quote]
I'm a chavunist?
uhhhhh
how?

And read the fucking wikipedia.
"The group opposed the Soviet-supported government, the following Mujahideen and Taliban Islamist governments, and even the present United States-supported Islamic Republican form of government."

The DRA supported Womans rights.

[quote]have you not spend the last 10 years hearing interviews on radio/tv documented about taliban attrocities? what the fuck man[/quote]
Such as?

[quote][URL="http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/09/16/taliban-jihadists-cut-off-teachers-ears-as-punishment"]here[/URL](this links to removed news article so dont go "your sources suck'[/quote]
"Isn’t the holy month of the religion of peace just lovely! Even during the time of the year purported to be a time for reflection and self improvement, the Taliban still find the time to mutilate a teacher who is trying to make a better future for children. Derka derka, muhammad jihad…"
Lovely people on this website. Real class acts.

Anyway, "But a spokesman for the extremist militia, Yousuf Ahmadi, said Taliban were not involved." This pretty much fucking reinforces my point that the Taliban are NOT centralised. There are groups of the Taliban who are more fucked up than others.

[quote][URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/taliban-pakistan-justice-women-flogging"]guardian article on more taliban being shitty people[/URL][/quote]
This is Pakistan.

[quote]irrelevant. thats like saying if a us soldier is punished for shooting a civillian its all ok[/quote]
Would you generalise all 1 million US soldiers for that one soldier.

[quote]im not sure if you've worked this out, but taliban are actually predominantly from Afghanistan[/quote]
lol, you link me a practice among the Afghans... And somehow it's another reason why the Taliban is evil?

That's like saying the entire US military is evil because some civilians rape.

[quote]well... yes? isn't that the whole point. im pretty sure if the people wanted a socialist revolution in Ireland or wherever you're from you'd support it.[/quote]
I don't kill people because the government is incompetent.

[quote]that doesnt mean they're sympathetic[/QUOTE]
Then they're incompetent as fuck.

[JLea]

oh you're just arguing the taliban arent centralized

well fuck, i thought you were just directly saying that there arent any extremists

[Warhol]

Read like both pages of my arguments, 90% of them say the Taliban isn't centralised.

And of course there are extremists. Every militant group has extremists.

[JLea]

well that makes alot more sense now, my apologies