• Latvian SS Veterans Deserve Respect - President
    115 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;34924965]I wasn't calling the Marines a paramilitary force, but superfluous. Sort of like having 2 navies, or 2 airforces. And i'm aware some things will be entirely lost to history, but there are obvious patterns noticeable in the units that were known to commit atrocities, so it's hardly logical to go accusing any SS foreign legion unit of war crimes when they were neither known to have committed war crimes or exhibited any of the known characteristics of those that did; such as being on anti-partisan duty or otherwise being tasked with securing conquered territories, being comprised of criminals or recruits from the blatant war criminal units etc.[/QUOTE] I agree completely, starting a witch hunt on name association would be wrong, but the organisation itself should always have questions associated with it.
[QUOTE=Gordy H.;34910877]If both the USA and the Soviet Union have said they committed no war crimes, then yeah, they should be seen in the same light as any other soldier.[/QUOTE] The soviet union commited more war crimes than I can count , yet most of their soldiers were called ,heroes' for doing war crimes.
[QUOTE=HulaDancer;34925060]The soviet union commited more war crimes than I can count , yet most of their soldiers were called ,heroes' for doing war crimes.[/QUOTE] Victors justice, happens in varying degrees in every war.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;34924883]Hitler served his country at his best. The "killing off Jews" part never came from Hitler himself; he just approved thoughts and decisions from subordinate and top officials and allowed actions to initiate (take Wannsee conference for example). Other than that, he cared for his country or otherwise, it wouldn't have succeeded until they lost. [/QUOTE] Regardless of the idea of if the final solution came from Hitler or not doesn't matter. He still ordered and promoted the mass murder of Jews and others. And bringing his country to destruction along with starting a war that cost millions on millions of casualties is nothing deserving of respect.
[QUOTE=Araknid;34923215]oh my god get your head out of your ass. Military leader =/= soldier.[/QUOTE] So then someone like Rommel should get no respect from you. [editline]29th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=HighdefGE;34924883]Hitler served his country at his best. The "killing off Jews" part never came from Hitler himself; he just approved thoughts and decisions from subordinate and top officials and allowed actions to initiate (take Wannsee conference for example). Other than that, he cared for his country or otherwise, it wouldn't have succeeded until they lost.[/QUOTE] What the fuck is wrong with you?
Title's a little unclear, I was confused as to why Obama cared about Latvian SS (no offense). Also I thought Latvia was doing the "Prime Minister" thing. anyway my WWII knowledge is a bit shoddy but I'm unaware of Latvia doing anything terribly bad so if they want respect fine by me
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34925335]Regardless of the idea of if the final solution came from Hitler or not doesn't matter. He still ordered and promoted the mass murder of Jews and others. And bringing his country to destruction along with starting a war that cost millions on millions of casualties is nothing deserving of respect.[/QUOTE] I think that Hitler then and Hitler as he's remember now are very different people. During and after WWI, he was basically just a nondescripit veteran deserving of no less fond rememberance than any other. Afterwards however, he started to go a bit crazy, and we all know where that led. I think it's somewhat unfair to judge him off of that part of his life. Before he went all power-mad, he was actually a pretty alright guy. I think everybody deserves to be remembered at their best rather than their worst. Maybe I'm just too forgiving.
Actually Hitler booster german economy and life a lot. Other than the jew incident he was quite a good leader.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;34924858]Only one unit of SS was a personal bodyguard of Hitler (namely the Reichssicherheitsdienst. The LSSAH were not his personal bodyguards per se, but guarded the area around him[/QUOTE] Aside from the Reichssichererheitsdienst his bodyguard formations were a batallion (Later a light brigade (The Fuhrerbegleitabteilung) associated with the Grossdeutschland Panzergrenadier Division (From the Wehrmacht Heer), and a similarly sized unit from LSSAH. However, most of LSSAH had nothing to do with guarding Hitler, and was instead utilized at the front.
[QUOTE=lavacano;34925975]Title's a little unclear, I was confused as to why Obama cared about Latvian SS (no offense). [/QUOTE] There are presidents besides Obama.
[QUOTE=Falchion;34928496]There are presidents besides Obama.[/QUOTE] Americans
[QUOTE=lavacano;34925975]Title's a little unclear, I was confused as to [B]why Obama cared about Latvian SS [/B](no offense). Also I thought Latvia was doing the "Prime Minister" thing. anyway my WWII knowledge is a bit shoddy but I'm unaware of Latvia doing anything terribly bad so if they want respect fine by me[/QUOTE] Well, there's one stereotype.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;34925887]What the fuck is wrong with you?[/QUOTE] I wasn't aware there was anything wrong with learning about Hitler and the early 20th century.
[QUOTE=Cone;34912544]Well there was a side that wasn't brutally exterminating Jews, and I think we can both agree that genocide does not look good on a resume.[/QUOTE] That same side was brutally exterminating Japanese and German Civilians with hordes of firebombs.
[QUOTE=Cone;34926017]I think that Hitler then and Hitler as he's remember now are very different people. During and after WWI, he was basically just a nondescripit veteran deserving of no less fond rememberance than any other. Afterwards however, he started to go a bit crazy, and we all know where that led. I think it's somewhat unfair to judge him off of that part of his life. Before he went all power-mad, he was actually a pretty alright guy. I think everybody deserves to be remembered at their best rather than their worst. Maybe I'm just too forgiving.[/QUOTE] So we should remember Hitler for his service in World War One instead of him orchestrating the mass murder of men women and children, along with starting the second world war? Hitler didn't go "mad with power", he ascended to power did what he believe needed to be done. [editline]29th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34926359]Actually Hitler booster german economy and life a lot. Other than the jew incident he was quite a good leader.[/QUOTE] Yep, leading his country to destruction sure did improve life a lot for the German people. [editline]29th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;34930429]That same side was brutally exterminating Japanese and German Civilians with hordes of firebombs.[/QUOTE] The western allies where not exterminating anyone. Im assuming you are referring to the bombing of Dresden, which was pretty horrible but doesn't equal a purposeful genocide.
[QUOTE=Theo213;34928344]Aside from the Reichssichererheitsdienst his bodyguard formations were a batallion (Later a light brigade (The Fuhrerbegleitabteilung) associated with the Grossdeutschland Panzergrenadier Division (From the Wehrmacht Heer), and a similarly sized unit from LSSAH. However, most of LSSAH had nothing to do with guarding Hitler, and was instead utilized at the front.[/QUOTE]Correction appreciated, I don't remember things as well as I used to.
Please lets halt this for now. Latvian news sources haven't posted anything about the current discussion. Possible made-up stuff.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];34910888']I didn't know that they would even put non-Germans into the SS, I thought that the SS was the exclusive Aryan group.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliaries[/url]
[QUOTE=Falchion;34928496]There are presidents besides Obama.[/QUOTE] way to not consider the whole post. [QUOTE=lavacano;34925975]I thought Latvia was doing the "Prime Minister" thing.[/QUOTE] That right there is why I was confused.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34931003]So we should remember Hitler for his service in World War One instead of him orchestrating the mass murder of men women and children, along with starting the second world war? Hitler didn't go "mad with power", he ascended to power did what he believe needed to be done. [editline]29th February 2012[/editline] Yep, leading his country to destruction sure did improve life a lot for the German people. [editline]29th February 2012[/editline] The western allies where not exterminating anyone. Im assuming you are referring to the bombing of Dresden, which was pretty horrible but doesn't equal a purposeful genocide.[/QUOTE] And Japan, where they abandoned the mix and just stuck with Firebombing tons of Japanese Cities? Knowing full well they didn't have the ability to put out the fire? [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Tokyo_kushu_1945-3.jpg[/img] That's Tokyo after one such attack.
[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;34936679]And Japan, where they abandoned the mix and just stuck with Firebombing tons of Japanese Cities? Knowing full well they didn't have the ability to put out the fire? [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Tokyo_kushu_1945-3.jpg[/img] That's Tokyo after one such attack.[/QUOTE] That has nothing to do with the systematic extermination done by the Axis powers on an ethnic basis.
Yeah people gawk over dropping of the atom bombs but don't seem to know a lot about fire bombing. Just imagine the sky being black and literally on fire and when you breath you inhale fire and just burn to a crisp.
[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;34936679]And Japan, where they abandoned the mix and just stuck with Firebombing tons of Japanese Cities? Knowing full well they didn't have the ability to put out the fire? [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Tokyo_kushu_1945-3.jpg[/img] That's Tokyo after one such attack.[/QUOTE] Its not the same as the organized extermination that the Axis where perpetrating. Im not arguing that the fire bombings where not horrible or wrong but what the western allies where doing and what the Axis where doing are not the same.
Love it how every thread regarding Latvia (whoops, accidentally wrote it 'Larvia') and it's maybe a little strange sometimes, but legit respect for their ethnic SS unit (yes, I'm Russian and I find nothing wrong with it, surprise) turns into massive debate on who killed more people in WWII. While firebombings, massive atrillery fire (like the ones Red Army did about everytime since 44), bombardment of Dresden and even atomic bombardment of Japan are military acts, they serve the purpose of ending the war as fast as possible, by any means, even military crimes serve that purpose. Killing hundreds of thousands, millions of people in deathcamps on ethnic basis is an act of genocide, it started by the time of peace, and only ended when the war was over, it has nothing to do with war itself, so no place for comparisons.
I am from Latvia. Fuck you Mr. President of Latvia!
[QUOTE=Polyethylene;34940107]I am from Latvia. Fuck you Mr. President of Latvia![/QUOTE] You should be ashamed.
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