• Creator of Assassins Creed left to join THQ Montreal, Ubisoft buys that studio and fires him
    66 replies, posted
[QUOTE=alien_guy;40562171]Don't you need a legit reason to fire someone?[/QUOTE] Depends on the state. In the U.S. state I currently reside, employers can fire you for no reason at all if they are so inclined. "right to work state" reads as, "employee abuse is perfectly alright state."
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40561947]I miss the days of game making was an art not a business[/QUOTE] Seeing how games were already a multi-billion dollar buisiness before the big 80's crash I really don't see how anyone younger than 40 would remember game making not being a business.
[QUOTE=draugur;40563407]Depends on the state. In the U.S. state I currently reside, employers can fire you for no reason at all if they are so inclined. "right to work state" reads as, "employee abuse is perfectly alright state."[/QUOTE] Its not as bad a law as people think. As long as you're not working for a prick its not like you're going to get fired under it. It combats unions to some degree too.
[QUOTE=Killuah;40563491]Seeing how games were already a multi-billion dollar buisiness before the big 80's crash I really don't see how anyone younger than 40 would remember game making not being a business.[/QUOTE] The dif is that back then there was more freedom, more creativity. Games took longer but came out masterpieces. Now u have yearly cash cows filled with bugs and dlc galore.
[QUOTE=garychencool;40562816]He wasn't even able to get his personal stuff or say goodbye...[/QUOTE] They'll then go through his personal stuff to make sure he isnt stealing anything and then either send it to him or allow him to come in and pick it up, being escorted all the way. [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The Rifleman;40563603]The dif is that back then there was more freedom, more creativity. Games took longer but came out masterpieces. Now u have yearly cash cows filled with bugs and dlc galore.[/QUOTE] The reason games have more bugs nowadays, aside from the incresed complexity of them, is also due to the internet, nowadays games can easily be patched aftrer release, but in the cartridge era, they couldn't, so they had to nail as many bugs as they possibly could before release.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';40562899]It was always a business I miss the days when less people cared about the videogame industry and developers were allowed more freedom of expression because they knew the kids and smaller fanbase appreciate more creativity. It was just a whole different mindset that we will probably never see again, indie games try to be like that but a lot of them just lack the funding and skills of a big development team. The whole mainstream industry is a battle between suits and who can extract the most money out of the masses it seems. Of course I am glad we still have a few shining examples of awesome games though, it's the only reason why I still have a glimmer of hope left in me for the future of videogames.[/QUOTE] I agree. In my opinion, the industry is actually more art-oriented now than before, but there aren't very many games just trying to be a [I]fun game[/I].
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40561947]I miss the days of game making was an art not a business[/QUOTE] Yeah holy shit, I don't know if the business has changed or I've just grown up, but being a game dev was one of my dreams as a kid. Today I wouldn't even give it a second thought knowing how ruthless it actually is.
In Quebec, as far as I know, you can be fired on the spot unless you're syndicated. If he was syndicated, his boss has to give a reason and a few weeks of warning in advance (Depending on how long the guy worked there) Usually, you're syndicated after three months of work. If he isn't syndicated, he can be fired whenever.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40562366]My best friend wanted to be a game designer since he was little but lately hes been changing his mind. I dont blame him[/QUOTE] Yeah i had the same idea. But after reading all these stories AND actually having a bad experience at game studio (which was basically a sinking ship, i believe they switched to being an advertising business now) i decided to go for a stable job that actually pays good money. I still work on game related stuff in my own time though, i love creative freedom.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40563603]The dif is that back then there was more freedom, more creativity. Games took longer but came out masterpieces. Now u have yearly cash cows filled with bugs and dlc galore.[/QUOTE] Games didn't take longer at all. Games took like two to eight months back then.
[QUOTE=Marlamin;40562510]Watch him get sued by Ubisoft for slander.[/QUOTE] you can't sue someone for slander if it's a group criticism
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40563611]The reason games have more bugs nowadays, aside from the incresed complexity of them, is also due to the internet, nowadays games can easily be patched aftrer release, but in the cartridge era, they couldn't, so [B]they had to nail as many bugs as they possibly could before release[/B].[/QUOTE] Which is as it should be. I didn't pay $60 to beta test your game and I expect a working product to within a few degrees of logic; failing that I return the broken merchandise, get my money back, and buy a rival product and/or buy it later for less than the full purchase price after it has been fixed -- as with most any other product I would buy. I can only blame the overly lucrative nature of video games (due in large part to customers not having standards of quality like other markets do) for the insistence of thinking the medium is above the long-set standards of services in the modern world. Patching is a crutch used to push content out early, reducing development fees, and obtain money while under the facade of being a caring company; it's not used as it was intended for. Neither was the advent of DLC for that matter. An abuse of a system rather than a use. Sums up modern video gaming and data mediums rather well at this moment in time; the Internet was supposed to make it easier to extend the longevity of the product and service and generate more revenue if desired. It was not to allow people to sell increasingly broken and [I]redundant[/I] shit for increased profits.
[QUOTE=Wingedwizard;40563569]Its not as bad a law as people think. As long as you're not working for a prick its not like you're going to get fired under it. It combats unions to some degree too.[/QUOTE] Combats unions? Do you even know what a union is for? It's to protect the rights of the fucking worker. Why is it bad for workers to have rights exactly? Please, do elaborate.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40561947]I miss the days of game making was an art not a business[/QUOTE] Yeah, I miss games like Journey and Hotline Miami... oh wait. [editline]1[/editline] That doesn't really refute my point. What I'm trying to say is that it's not all bad. Yes, maybe there is more moneygrabbing bullshit now than there used to be, but there's also more good stuff. And there's always been some amount of greed in gaming, even going back to the earlier systems.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;40562262]Wow, imagine leaving a company after making a hugely successful product for them, just to have that company buy out the new studio you're working for and fire you. Fucking assholes. Is it just me, or [b](with the exception of Valve)[/b] is working for a studio owned by a big game publisher just about the worst job ever? Executives shoving their noses into the creative process, insane working conditions and hours, shit pay, no profit sharing when your game makes huge amounts of money, no-warning layoffs all the time, the inevitability of your studio being bought out and gutted by EA or Activision...who in their right mind would want to make video games anymore? Never underestimate corporate America's ability to take a good thing and convert it into shit.[/QUOTE] Valve, like every other game developer, has the developers undergo "slave-like" conditions during crunch time. You know why they have a cool lounge area, a rad snack bar, and ping pong tables and shit? [I]They don't want you to leave.[/I] If they can get the team to stay on off-hours and give basically free labor, that's great. Also, EVERY development team could be considered awful judging by what you've said, especially if they're under a publisher. What kind of fucked up perception of reality do you have where you think that execs LITERALLY push developers over and go "ADD MORE DLC PUNK, OR I'LL FIRE YOU!" if it was like that, wouldn't we be having these horror stories every fucking day?
[QUOTE=The golden;40566791]Nowadays everything is about DLC, DRM, subscriptions, DLC, more DLC, and unlocks. It's been awhile since I've played something that can compete with old classics like the old Unreal Tournament games and whatnot. All of the content right out of the box, no bullshit. Mod support, awesome soundtrack, actually works properly, no retarded DRM, etc.[/QUOTE] and technically speaking, very very simple [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40561943]Wanting to break into the AAA game industry is like wanting to break into a prison[/QUOTE] wanting to break into the indie game industry is like being poor all the time
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40563603]The dif is that back then there was more freedom, more creativity. Games took longer but came out masterpieces. Now u have yearly cash cows filled with bugs and dlc galore.[/QUOTE] Rose tinted glasses, much? Development was much easier back then, considering that you only needed a group of 8-15 guys with 90's guys with mullets in your basement to make a game like Doom. Nowadays, there's a ton of fucking licensing in order to get your game on the consoles and shit, high expectations of quality which makes the devs have to work with advanced engines and shit, etc. Right now the only choices for a development team is to a) pay out of their own pocket, b) sign up with a publisher, or c) crowdfunding. They can't just make a game in their basement in 7 months, it doesn't work that way anymore. Also, if you think that all games are cash cows filled with bugs and DLC, maaaybe you should dig a bit deeper into the yearly pile of games. [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] All games weren't "masterpieces" back in the day, either. There were a fuckton of shitty games, too many to count. It's just that we've remembered and embraced the good ones, and have forgotten the bad ones, kinda like how music works. There may be a lot of awful music like Nicki Minaj right now, but kids who grow up in 2020 or some shit won't even know who that broad is, but they'll remember dudes like Daft Punk or something.
Stuff like this makes me not want to buy games from these companies, firing the creators of a the game that makes them a huge amount of money. Just like how activision fired Jason West and Vince Zampella from infinity ward, that made me stop buying Call of duty which I was a huge fan since call of duty 1.
Although, him becoming an employee again might have been more that he came with the THQ studio than them actually wanting him back. There's probably feeligns of betrayal by Ubi, well, how would you feel if one of your top guys fucked off to work for a competitor, then you bought your competitor out, you might not neccesarily want him back, despite him initially coming back as part of the takeover.
I don't want to be the devil's avocado here, but what if the employee is just making shit up?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40567191]Valve, like every other game developer, has the developers undergo "slave-like" conditions during crunch time. You know why they have a cool lounge area, a rad snack bar, and ping pong tables and shit? [I]They don't want you to leave.[/I] If they can get the team to stay on off-hours and give basically free labor, that's great.[/QUOTE] yeah gabe is secretly calculating the cost-to-profit ratio of all these amenities between employee-whipping sessions. you ever think maybe these guys go under rough conditions because there's really no other way pull the project off and they're passionate about the stuff they're making? game development is a psychotic commitment no matter what level you're at. you'll find crunch time stories at the indie and professional levels, and they go back as far as games themselves. if there's a deadline, there's inevitably a crunch time.
[QUOTE=draugur;40564028]Combats unions? Do you even know what a union is for? It's to protect the rights of the fucking worker. Why is it bad for workers to have rights exactly? Please, do elaborate.[/QUOTE] Without anything to combat unions, they get greedy and keep reaching for more and more. There has to exist a balance. [editline]e[/editline] Please note that my view is based on anecdotal evidence and may not apply to all situations.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;40567332]yeah gabe is secretly calculating the cost-to-profit ratio of all these amenities between employee-whipping sessions. you ever think maybe these guys go under rough conditions because there's really no other way and they're passionate about the stuff they're making? game development is a psychotic commitment no matter what level you're at.[/QUOTE] literally never implied that. I'm just telling usedcarguy that valve isn't sunshine and rainbows like he's saying it is, it's still a fucking pain in the ass during crunch time like any other development team. most developers put their ass into their games, too, not just at valve. [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;40567330]I don't want to be the devil's avocado here, but what if the employee is just making shit up?[/QUOTE] it's happened in the past, usually it's just dumb journalist misinterpreting what somebody has said.
[QUOTE=MegaJohnny;40561840]As much as I'd love to be a game dev, a big studio is not where I'd want to be working. Too many stories about people being kicked out and studios being bought and shut down and people shifting about.[/QUOTE] The game industry in general is just very unstable and has been for sometime. It's like one day you could have a job and the next it's gone. Would be a cool career, but just too unstable at the moment for my liking.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40567351]literally never implied that. I'm just telling usedcarguy that valve isn't sunshine and rainbows like he's saying it is, it's still a fucking pain in the ass during crunch time like any other development team. most developers put their ass into their games, too, not just at valve.[/QUOTE] then why did you word it like valve is run by mr. burns? usedcarguy is dumb if he was talking solely about the inevitabilities of the game development process, but valve does seem to treat its employees markedly better if we're operating from a base-line of "making a game stops being so fun near the end of the cycle" across the board. also none of the other things he listed really apply except maybe profit sharing because idk the specifics of that
[QUOTE=-n3o-;40567375]The game industry in general is just very unstable and has been for sometime. It's like one day you could have a job and the next it's gone. Would be a cool career, but just too unstable at the moment for my liking.[/QUOTE] If I ever got into game development, I don't know if I'd want to be in a team under a publisher. It would be cool to work on a big game that everyone's going to play, but at the same time I couldn't see myself working up to a stable position where I'd be immune to termination unless the team fucked up tremendously. I'd probably end up being a lackey that would be cut if my game got a poor score on Metacritic. [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=TheHydra;40567383]then why did you word it like valve is run by mr. burns? usedcarguy is dumb if he was talking solely about the inevitabilities of the game development process, but valve does seem to treat its employees markedly better all-around if we're operating from a base-line of "making a game stops being so fun near the end of the cycle" across the board. also none of the other things he listed really apply except maybe profit sharing because idk the specifics of that[/QUOTE] "slave-like" was in quotations to poke fun at him. yeah, i'll admit i was exaggerating a lot, but the reason why development offices have cool snack bars and shit is because they want the guys to be in a good environment where they'd be willing to work overtime. i
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40567351]literally never implied that. I'm just telling usedcarguy that valve isn't sunshine and rainbows like he's saying it is, it's still a fucking pain in the ass during crunch time like any other development team. most developers put their ass into their games, too, not just at valve.[/QUOTE] Any crunch time at any kind of industry, not just videogames, is a pain in the ass, thats the nature of things in any industry when you have to have things made by a specific date.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40567443]Any crunch time at any kind of industry, not just videogames, is a pain in the ass, thats the nature of things in any industry when you have to have things made by a specific date.[/QUOTE] crunch time for games must be ultra stressful. i'd hate to work like that, i just wanna work at a big development studio and chill out, but that'd be having my cake and eating it too
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40567473]crunch time for games must be ultra stressful. i'd hate to work like that, i just wanna work at a big development studio and chill out, but that'd be having my cake and eating it too[/QUOTE] Even big development studios have crunch times. Pretty much the only way nowadays to not have crunch times, is to be an indie develper who doesnt give out update/release information.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;40561947]I miss the days of game making was an art not a business[/QUOTE] you mean like never??? considering it has been and will be a business since it's fruition??
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