Austin police swarm white man for walking with black granddaughter
81 replies, posted
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;34734686]The police were doing their jobs. They got a call, they investigated. Certainly there was a problem, but blame should be put at the person who called, or as ewitwins said, a failure in communication. Instead of going "herp derp police officers bad and corrupt" why don't you, I don't know, read for once.[/QUOTE]
This, so much of this.
When the police get a call from some freaked out person talking about an old man kidnapping a girl in broad daylight, they're gonna send a lot of their forces to make sure the girl is safe. Blame the person who made the call, since they apparently can't comprehend that a white man can have a black granddaughter.
[QUOTE=znk666;34725610]'A few bad apples'
Say what you will,but the so called 'few apples' are becoming 'Loads of bad apples'.[/QUOTE]
You need to stop listening to Rage Against the Machine.
[QUOTE=Araknid;34724249]are you fucking serious
Holy shit a majority of the american police seem fucking stupid from half the stories i read about them.[/QUOTE]
Read first, post later.
And even though this whole first page is full of people telling others to read the article the next few pages are going to be made of comments like this.
I'm Amazed this hasn't turned into a Texas bashing thread yet
I think the first time the guy got stopped and the little girl asked repeatedly to identify the man who she was with is a little ridiculous, but the second one they were just responding to, for all they knew legit, call that someone got kidnapped.
Bad police is like when that guy pepper sprayed a line of occupy protesters with pepper spray. This is simply bad intel. Detaining him was completely unnecessary and they should've apologized though
Oh man I can't imagine what would happen if my cousin decided to make a trip to the US.
He's extra white and his biological son is extra black (so is his wife)
[QUOTE=Araknid;34724249]are you fucking serious
Holy shit a majority of the american police seem fucking stupid from half the stories i read about them.[/QUOTE]
dumbass. The only reason you only hear negative stories is because those are the only kinds of stories the media prints
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;34738775]dumbass. The only reason you only hear negative stories is because those are the only kinds of stories the media prints[/QUOTE]
The only reason this is a "bad" story is people being too lazy to read beyond the headline.
The cops did exactly what they were meant to do in this case.
Are all you people saying that "they just did their job" retarded or what? You people are so short-minded it makes me dizzy. Are you telling me that the cops don't realize that when someone calls them and reports something, they are not being given objective information? They are not receiving facts as they are, they are being told what the person thinks is happening. The duty of the police officer taking the call is to establish facts, not make decisions based on subjective conclusions of a panicked person. The officer taking the call, should ask for facts and objectively come to a conclusion to what's actually happening. They can't take a call like "I see a white guy kidnapping a black child" and go "k, we're sending 10 cars".
(incoming retarded argument how I'm implying that they should ask about details when someone's being murdered. No ofc not, no time for that if the person calling is in danger)
This is sensationalist.
The police were just doing their damn job by following a call through made by a retarded, paranoid woman.
[editline]17th February 2012[/editline]
It's not as though the cops said "There's a white guy with a black kid, SHE MUST BE KIDNAPPED ARREST HIM" which [I]so[/I] many of you people seem to think.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34740325]Are all you people saying that "they just did their job" retarded or what? You people are so short-minded it makes me dizzy. Are you telling me that the cops don't realize that when someone calls them and reports something, they are not being given objective information? They are not receiving facts as they are, they are being told what the person thinks is happening. The duty of the police officer taking the call is to establish facts, not make decisions based on subjective conclusions of a panicked person. The officer taking the call, should ask for facts and objectively come to a conclusion to what's actually happening. They can't take a call like "I see a white guy kidnapping a black child" and go "k, we're sending 10 cars".
(incoming retarded argument how I'm implying that they should ask about details when someone's being murdered. No ofc not, no time for that if the person calling is in danger)[/QUOTE]
A child being kidnapped is in danger. If this was a real kidnapping case the man and child could have disappeared within a few minuets with no trace of where they went. The police acted correctly in responding as quick as possible.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34740441]A child being kidnapped is in danger. If this was a real kidnapping case the man and child could have disappeared within a few minuets with no trace of where they went. The police acted correctly in responding as quick as possible.[/QUOTE]
Why are you people so narrow minded and black and white is the only way you people can think with?
Someone calls and reports kidnapping. It can either be false or real. Deploy police officers as if this was real but continue questioning the person who called about what's actually happening. If all she sees is a white man and a black child walking slowly on a sidewalk holding hands, there is no reason to suspect it's a kidnapping and there is no threat anymore. Everyone who was going to investigate it can be called off. The duty of the officer taking the call is to establish facts and act based on facts, not on subjective concisions. What if someone paranoid and delusional would call the cops and say that there is some guy walking around his neighborhood with an assault rifle when in reality it would be just an umbrella. Someone can get killed because of this kind of misinformation.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34740718]Why are you people so narrow minded and black and white is the only way you people can think with?
Someone calls and reports kidnapping. It can either be false or real. Deploy police officers as if this was real but continue questioning the person who called about what's actually happening. If all she sees is a white man and a black child walking slowly on a sidewalk holding hands, there is no reason to suspect it's a kidnapping and there is no threat anymore. Everyone who was going to investigate it can be called off. The duty of the officer taking the call is to establish facts and act based on facts, not on subjective concisions. What if someone paranoid and delusional would call the cops and say that there is some guy walking around his neighborhood with an assault rifle when in reality it would be just an umbrella. Someone can get killed because of this kind of misinformation.[/QUOTE]
All calls they receive are treated as real threats and they respond as such. From the time the call to 911 went out and the police responded it was probable no more than a few minutes, hardly enough time to determine if the threat is credible or not over the telephone. Which is near impossible to do anyway if the caller actually believes there has been a kidnapping. And many child abductions happen with the perpetrator simply walking away with the child, they cant assume by the demeanor of the suspect that he is not a threat.
Stop accusing people of being narrow minded when you yourself don't take time to think about the realities of the situation.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34741210]All calls they receive are treated as real threats and they respond as such. From the time the call to 911 went out and the police responded it was probable no more than a few minutes, hardly enough time to determine if the threat is credible or not over the telephone. [/QUOTE]
"what do you see?" or "what do you hear?" or ,"why do you think xxx" are questions that can be asked and answered in shorter time than 5 minutes. And those should be asked after you've sent units obviously.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34741210]Which is near impossible to do anyway if the caller actually believes there has been a kidnapping. [/QUOTE]
Did you miss that part? "The duty of the officer taking the call is to establish facts and act based on facts, not on subjective concisions". If the officer ask "what do you think is happening?" and acts on that, he's making a giant mistake that might cost someone's life.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34741210]And many child abductions happen with the perpetrator simply walking away with the child, they cant assume by the demeanor of the suspect that he is not a threat.[/QUOTE]
What? So every time I see an adult and a child walking on a sidewalk together I can call the cops and tell them it's a kidnapping? Shouldn't there be a reason for treating that situation as kidnapping? Subjective conclusion based on racism is not a legitimate reason.
I saw a man holding a baby outside a hospital
BABYNAPPING RAPIST!!!
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34741431]"what do you see?" or "what do you hear?" or ,"why do you think xxx" are questions that can be asked and answered in shorter time than 5 minutes. And those should be asked after you've sent units obviously.
Did you miss that part? "The duty of the officer taking the call is to establish facts and act based on facts, not on subjective concisions". If the officer ask "what do you think is happening?" and acts on that, he's making a giant mistake that might cost someone's life.
[/QUOTE]
When you have someone on the line who legitimately believes there has been a kidnapping then what that person tells the 911 operator is going to sound like there has been a kidnapping. The 911, who is trained to respond to these types of calls, determined there was a kidnapping in progress and alerted officers. The officers then responded to what they believed to be a kidnapping.
“When we get a 911 call saying someone just ran into a facility and took a child, we have to take that very seriously.”
Once again all this happen with a few minutes, which are valuable in trying to prevent a kidnapping.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34741431]
What? So every time I see an adult and a child walking on a sidewalk together I can call the cops and tell them it's a kidnapping? Shouldn't there be a reason for treating that situation as kidnapping? Subjective conclusion based on racism is not a legitimate reason.[/QUOTE]
No, you shouldn't. The lady who called obviously made it sound as though it was a kidnapping, which is why it was treated as such. The responsibility is with the lady who made the call, not those who responded to it.
As said, they got a call on a possible kidnapping, etc etc. I do not need to go there.
Also, his detainment is needed until the situation can be cleared up. As a responding officer everything is an unknown until the facts are found out. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback by reading a news article because you already have the facts.
Is this guy a kidnapper?
Does he have a gun or other weapon?
Is he going to run?
His detainment was required until the situation can be found out.
But what really surprises me is how many FPers were present at the scene. Declaring that the officers did not apologize for what happened. I am certain once he was released the situation was explained to him and it was properly explained why the actions were taken and he was apologized to.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34741677]When you have someone on the line who legitimately believes there has been a kidnapping then what that person tells the 911 operator is going to sound like there has been a kidnapping. The 911, who is trained to respond to these types of calls, determined there was a kidnapping in progress and alerted officers. The officers then responded to what they believed to be a kidnapping.
“When we get a 911 call saying someone just ran into a facility and took a child, we have to take that very seriously.”[/QUOTE]
For like 4th time, the operator has to establish facts and act based on facts. Not on subjective conclusion. He needs to know what happened and why does the caller think it's a kidnapping. If he doesn't, someone might get hurt. He's in a position to make an objective conclusion but he needs to get the facts first.
Now if when presented with description of what's happening (not with subjective conclusions like "he kidnapped") the operator makes a bad decision, he either made a mistake in conclusion and the police should apologize for misjudging the situation or the operator failed to get the facts and acted on subjective concussions which is his mistake again and the police should apologize or the caller didn't present the facts as they were and he's to blame.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34741677]
Once again all this happen with a few minutes, which are valuable in trying to prevent a kidnapping.[/QUOTE]
Once again, you can ask those questions after you've sent the units and it will not delay anything.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34741677]No, you shouldn't. The lady who called obviously made it sound as though it was a kidnapping, which is why it was treated as such. The responsibility is with the lady who made the call, not those who responded to it.[/QUOTE]
That depends on the performance of the operator taking the call. Which one do you think is correct? "hello, there is an armed man in front of my house, he wants to kill me", "k, we're sending swat, goodnight". or " "hello, there is an armed man in front of my house, he wants to kill me", "we're sending units, (sends units to the address) why do you think he wants to kill you and are you sure it's a gun? What is he doing with it?" , "because I own some dude 1000$ and they must be after me, and the gun I don't really see it clearly but right now he's holding it next to his ear and talking to it", "(operator tells the responding units not to go guns blazing)"
I can understand them wanting to clarify the situation, especially if it was reported as a possible kidnapping.
What is not acceptable is that it was anything more than this: Cop stops man and child, first of all you don't need more than one or two cars until AFTER you've established a problem. Immediate swarming only proves overreaction.
Next, ask politely who he and the child are. When told, use their radio and/or other communications to verify. No one gets taken to a car, the kid doesn't get taken from anyone until AFTER they've established a crime has been committed.
This whole problem is that they treated him like he committed a crime with that kid, even though they had no evidence of a crime. This is ironic, since it happened to a white guy, usually cops only treat minorities this way. Imagine if it had been a black guy with a white kid, the cops probably would have shot him at the start- oops!
[QUOTE=Falchion;34724459]Slightly offtopic but goes in context of the eternal "US cops are dumbe" debate on FP.
Resources should be put into admitting certain shortcomings with the police departments and coming up with ideas to improve them instead of arguing about how there are always "bad apples" and that there's no way to make it better than it already is.
Though in the case of police brutality/excessive force and racism there are underlying cultural problems to solve first.[/QUOTE]
There are a LOT of bad apples. This isn't some one off thing that happens once in a while, it is every week now.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34744954]There are a LOT of bad apples. This isn't some one off thing that happens once in a while, it is every week now.[/QUOTE]
With a population of about 313 million, one bad cop story a week isn't very surprising, especially considering the fact that this isn't one.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34740325]Are all you people saying that "they just did their job" retarded or what? You people are so short-minded it makes me dizzy. Are you telling me that the cops don't realize that when someone calls them and reports something, they are not being given objective information? They are not receiving facts as they are, they are being told what the person thinks is happening. The duty of the police officer taking the call is to establish facts, not make decisions based on subjective conclusions of a panicked person. The officer taking the call, should ask for facts and objectively come to a conclusion to what's actually happening. They can't take a call like "I see a white guy kidnapping a black child" and go "k, we're sending 10 cars".
(incoming retarded argument how I'm implying that they should ask about details when someone's being murdered. No ofc not, no time for that if the person calling is in danger)[/QUOTE]
I'd rather have police accidentally detain an innocent man for a short while than potentially let a kidnapper roam free. Children have been killed mere hours after being kidnapped, and police need to react as swiftly as possible. If that means that a few innocent people are inconvenienced, I think that's a fair trade.
[QUOTE=Paramud;34747276]I'd rather have police accidentally detain an innocent man for a short while than potentially let a kidnapper roam free. Children have been killed mere hours after being kidnapped, and police need to react as swiftly as possible. If that means that a few innocent people are inconvenienced, I think that's a fair trade.[/QUOTE]
Read the other posts. Establishing facts does not delay anything.
In my experience the APD have been nothing but respectful and competent; This is just another example of good police work. So please, stop spinning this and give them the respect they deserve for taking a possible kidnapping seriously. The alternative is unfathomably worse.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34742338]For like 4th time, the operator has to establish facts and act based on facts. Not on subjective conclusion. He needs to know what happened and why does the caller think it's a kidnapping. If he doesn't, someone might get hurt. He's in a position to make an objective conclusion but he needs to get the facts first.
Now if when presented with description of what's happening (not with subjective conclusions like "he kidnapped") the operator makes a bad decision, he either made a mistake in conclusion and the police should apologize for misjudging the situation or the operator failed to get the facts and acted on subjective concussions which is his mistake again and the police should apologize or the caller didn't present the facts as they were and he's to blame.
Once again, you can ask those questions after you've sent the units and it will not delay anything.
That depends on the performance of the operator taking the call. Which one do you think is correct? "hello, there is an armed man in front of my house, he wants to kill me", "k, we're sending swat, goodnight". or " "hello, there is an armed man in front of my house, he wants to kill me", "we're sending units, (sends units to the address) why do you think he wants to kill you and are you sure it's a gun? What is he doing with it?" , "because I own some dude 1000$ and they must be after me, and the gun I don't really see it clearly but right now he's holding it next to his ear and talking to it", "(operator tells the responding units not to go guns blazing)"[/QUOTE]
Also for the fourth time, the caller obviously described a kidnapping situation and the 911 operator responded too it. Judging by the comment
“When we get a 911 call saying someone just ran into a facility and took a child, we have to take that very seriously.”
the caller described what seemed to be a kidnapping. The caller was obviously giving misleading information. This would have made the 911 operators job of getting the facts impossible regardless of what questions where asked.
[QUOTE=Araknid;34724249]are you fucking serious
Holy shit a majority of the american police seem fucking stupid from half the stories i read about them.[/QUOTE]
Some of the dumbest people I know want to become police officers.
Life is sad...
[QUOTE=TheHydra;34724434]it was because the guardian was white and the child was black. entirely.
[editline]16th February 2012[/editline]
a lot of people still can't grasp the concept of interracial families, and it's sad.[/QUOTE]
Its more because interracial families are rare, and the assumption that "relatives" look nothing alike is not normal. Overall it was a "better safe than sorry" scenario with founded caution, and this is not racism, its just being better safe than sorry.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34740325]Are all you people saying that "they just did their job" retarded or what? You people are so short-minded it makes me dizzy. Are you telling me that the cops don't realize that when someone calls them and reports something, they are not being given objective information? They are not receiving facts as they are, they are being told what the person thinks is happening. The duty of the police officer taking the call is to establish facts, not make decisions based on subjective conclusions of a panicked person. The officer taking the call, should ask for facts and objectively come to a conclusion to what's actually happening. They can't take a call like "I see a white guy kidnapping a black child" and go "k, we're sending 10 cars".
(incoming retarded argument how I'm implying that they should ask about details when someone's being murdered. No ofc not, no time for that if the person calling is in danger)[/QUOTE]
I dare you to find a post of mine that defends the questionable acts of police. However, in this case, they did what they were supposed to. The woman who called it should be at fault as her ignorance caused it. The police took the case seriously because they have to.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34748256]Also for the fourth time, the caller obviously described a kidnapping situation and the 911 operator responded too it. Judging by the comment
“When we get a 911 call saying someone just ran into a facility and took a child, we have to take that very seriously.”
the caller described what seemed to be a kidnapping. The caller was obviously giving misleading information. This would have made the 911 operators job of getting the facts impossible regardless of what questions where asked.[/QUOTE]
Sigh, read what you're replying to.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34742338]Now if when presented with description of what's happening (not with subjective conclusions like "he kidnapped") the operator makes a bad decision, he either made a mistake in conclusion and the police should apologize for misjudging the situation or the operator failed to get the facts and acted on subjective concussions which is his mistake again and the police should apologize or the caller didn't present the facts as they were and he's to blame.[/QUOTE]
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