Trump faces uphill battle as candidates turn to general election
67 replies, posted
if it's the last few month and it is absolutely clear that Hillary Clinton is going to lose the general election by a massive margin, I hope bernie considers running independant.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50253174]if it's the last few month and it is absolutely clear that Hillary Clinton is going to lose the general election by a massive margin, I hope bernie considers running independant.[/QUOTE]If he managed to win enough that he prevented any candidate from getting the necessary electoral votes, it'd send the matter for the House to pick who they want to be president of the three.
[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;50253170]Ukraine and the former Soviet states are a bit of an exception considering they used to be under the Soviet Union, now that they are liberated many of those countries are fiercely nationalistic due to their recently gained independence.
Meanwhile Russia is wanting a Soviet Union 2.0, and Russia is very nationalistic so it kinda conflicts there with that land.
It is one of those places that you can't really fix at this point, let them have their blood.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but that isn't any different. Romania was a Soviet occupied country, but most of the people there would tell you to shove it if you are offering "Soviet Union 2.0". There is no clear boundary and in a 100 years there could easily be another one (EU maybe) claiming homogeneity.
[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;50253028]What's wrong with having a little Patriotism? It is okay to be proud of your country lmao.[/QUOTE]
I've learned that America isn't the utopia I was told about in elementary school so it must be a hellhole!
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50253192]If he managed to win enough that he prevented any candidate from getting the necessary electoral votes, it'd send the matter for the House to pick who they want to be president of the three.[/QUOTE]
*cough* Hillary *cough*
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;50253212]*cough* Hillary *cough*[/QUOTE]
The house of representatives contains 246 Republicans and 188 Democrats. Its very unlikely Hillary will get a majority of the votes.
[QUOTE=mr apple;50252999]Pretty much, you guys had an actual politician willing to do good for you country instead of pandering for big companies and making your economy worse than it is. Yet, the majority of the population want Hillary or Trump. I don't know if it's a lack of education in America or what but your entire election has been hilarious.[/QUOTE]
It's simple, Sanders didn't throw himself out enough, nor put enough money to also put himself out. Many people probably just heard about him from the Primaries. Most folks either think he's putting up a good effort, but will lose because Hillary is domination the population centers and has more big name to her in general (Helps to be the wife of a popular 90s president.) Or they throw him away as a wishy washy person that says alot, but aren't sure he can legit deliver if he ever won. Plus Sanders never said much about polices other than domestic.
For myself, I'm not thinking about Trump, soley because Sander's isn't going to win. But because as I personally am having alot of difficulty getting a simple job at McDonalds or a grocery store, without money, I can't do things or get things that I want to do and get, and I can't hope to pay off College. I feel pretty disenfranchised. And what is Clinton going to do aside from guarantee the same quiet America for four to eight more years? What will she bring to us when the Election excitement is over, Hiliary is done touting that she finally won the oval office after over 10 years of politics, and waving around the "I'm the first Woman president" flag around as well?
For me, she's not going to give me anything other than the satisfaction that someone else didn't win. Meanwhile I'll still be here, typing on Facepunch four years into the future, still jobless and college degree-less. Plus this whole election is just a huge fucking joke anyway.
So fuck it, I might just put my vote towards the wild card, and see if he actually might do shit.
At the very least it'll be the crown jewel of this meme-fest we're calling the 2016 US Presidential Election.
[QUOTE=Judas;50253011]this is an absolutely ridiculous attitude to take, there is no reason to assume "the world is going to burn" whatsoever and most people who say this aren't old enough to vote[/QUOTE]
Except I'm saying it because I'm Canadian, therefore I can't vote anyways. :v:
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50253010]
Also trump didn't support the Iraq war, Clinton did. This election seems pretty pivotal on candidates history with the Iraq war[/QUOTE]
"We're going to destroy ISIS and steal their oil"
Yeah, Hillary is definitely more hawkish.
[QUOTE=mr apple;50252999]Pretty much, you guys had an actual politician willing to do good for you country instead of pandering for big companies and making your economy worse than it is. Yet, the majority of the population want Hillary or Trump. I don't know if it's a lack of education in America or what but your entire election has been hilarious.[/QUOTE]
What is with this sentiment on the left that if you're 'educated' somehow Sanders is the only option, implying that supporters of other candidates are uneducated? That's a huge slap in the face to quite a lot of actually-'educated' people, especially considering Sanders' core support base is young white males still in college/university - so people who are not yet 'educated'.
I'm still in university and almost at the point of graduation. Aside from my two majors, I've studied courses such as law, economics, politics and philosophy. I recognise Hillary is a bit less 'clean' than Bernie - and she and her campaign team could have done so many things better. But her policies are more-practical, more likely to be implemented, won't cause as much damage to the American economy, and she has the experience whereas Bernie is just a career politician who is a classic tax and spend liberal. I will grant him that he has a bigger heart and is more-respectable than Clinton, but those are his only qualities which trump Hillary.
[QUOTE=sb27;50253313]What is with this sentiment on the left that if you're 'educated' somehow Sanders is the only option, implying that supporters of other candidates are uneducated? That's a huge slap in the face to quite a lot of actually-'educated' people, especially considering Sanders' core support base is young white males still in college/university - so people who are not yet 'educated'.
I'm still in university and almost at the point of graduation. Aside from my two majors, I've studied courses such as law, economics, politics and philosophy. I recognise Hillary is a bit less 'clean' than Bernie - and she and her campaign team could have done so many things better. But her policies are more-practical, more likely to be implemented, won't cause as much damage to the American economy, and she has the experience whereas Bernie is just a career politician who is a classic tax and spend liberal. I will grant him that he has a bigger heart and is more-respectable than Clinton, but those are his only qualities which trump Hillary.[/QUOTE]
I'm "educated" (bachelors) and I find that Sanders' propsals are unrealistic and would cause a lot of unintentional consequences detrimental to the USA. I've been a Hillary supporter since 2015 and continue to do so.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50253304]"We're going to destroy ISIS and steal their oil"
Yeah, Hillary is definitely more hawkish.[/QUOTE]
"We came, we saw, he died"
[QUOTE=mr apple;50252981]It's amazing that a large majority of your population want this guy in power.
America kinda deserves Trump tbh, maybe once he fucks the country up a bit more, you guys will stop claiming you're the best country in the world.[/QUOTE]
I don't know who this majority is and I live here
These polls are also annoying because it isn't how the presidency is decided, Trump and the GOP rub everyone the wrong way where it matters and at this rate hes gonna get destroyed in the electoral college as it stands right now.
As a Bernie voter, I'm not ever voting for Trump until he accepts climate change is real, human caused, and is ready to do something about it. I don't know if I'll vote Hillary, but it's still early so I'll see if she can ever convince me. Hillary to me is just a more corporate, hawkish version of Obama which as bad as it is, I'm not so sure yet if it's as bad as a Trump presidency. Yeah, it would be great to elect someone anti-establishment to change things up but I just disagree too much with Trump as of now. He's totally against net neutrality, he won't do anything about campaign finance lets be real, he'll deregulate everything, ignore global climate talks, and the Republicans congress would very likely easily get a lot of their agenda passed.
[QUOTE=mr apple;50252981]It's amazing that a large majority of your population want this guy in power. America kinda deserves Trump tbh, maybe once he fucks the country up a bit more, you guys will stop claiming you're the best country in the world.[/QUOTE]You're generalizing. There are people who think that, but blanketing this behavior to all Americans is disingenuous. Reasonable Americans are as off-put by blind patriotism, nationalistic supremacy and jingoism as you are and you know that.
I'm disappointed with this election. I don't feel represented by the candidates at all and it saddens me when we're collectively blamed for this shit show, because I know there's so many other Americans who feel completely shafted this year.
I'm convinced it's quasi-deliberate because this shit sells. The news outlets, advertising companies, and other entities that have a role to play in the election are profiting from the fucking circus that is this election. There's so much campaign spending and media coverage on these absurd candidates that represent nobody but themselves and the corporate oligarchy that runs this country. How could it [I]not[/I] be a big fucking ruse?
[QUOTE=shadow_oap;50253513]Hillary to me is ... hawkish version of Obama which as bad as it is, I'm not so sure yet if it's as bad as a Trump presidency.[/QUOTE]
Trump literally has campaign ads saying we will "kill ISIS" and "steal their oil", yet you say Hillary being hawkish is a negative trait for her compared to Trump?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50253553]Trump literally has campaign ads saying we will "kill ISIS" and "steal their oil", yet you say Hillary being hawkish is a negative trait for her compared to Trump?[/QUOTE]
Hillary and Trump are different kinds of hawkish. Trump is, supposedly, making his own policy. Hillary is, likely, taking all her cues from handelers and the same establishment figures that have been making decisions for the few past decades.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50253174]if it's the last few month and it is absolutely clear that Hillary Clinton is going to lose the general election by a massive margin, I hope bernie considers running independant.[/QUOTE]
no, because he'll split the vote and trump will win for sure
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50253174]if it's the last few month and it is absolutely clear that Hillary Clinton is going to lose the general election by a massive margin, I hope bernie considers running independant.[/QUOTE]
An independent trying to run against Democrats and Republicans and winning? That's more unlikely than Sanders getting the Democratic nomination.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;50253564]Hillary and Trump are different kinds of hawkish. Trump is, supposedly, making his own policy. Hillary is, likely, taking all her cues from handelers and the same establishment figures that have been making decisions for the few past decades.[/QUOTE]
Make your "she's just a puppet" assumptions all you want, but a career politician like Hillary rides the waves of public opinion, not takes directions from dark backdoor rooms.
In 2003, American's called for blood so she voted for war.
Now in 2016, Americans are sick of war - she'll vote for peace.
Trump, on the other hand, is just one quote away from being "100 years in Syria!"
[QUOTE=smurfy;50253131]In other news I started following CNN Politics and I think I might have made a mistake
[media]https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/727717640677031938[/media][/QUOTE]
holy shit CNN is buzzfeed level trash now
I thought that was apparent after they aired a segment about how a blackhole sucked up MH370
or how biased they are in this election.. right up there with FN & Trump(which is funny, they used to hate trump)
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;50253564]Hillary and Trump are different kinds of hawkish. Trump is, supposedly, making his own policy. Hillary is, likely, taking all her cues from handelers and the same establishment figures that have been making decisions for the few past decades.[/QUOTE]
While I still prefer Obama's realist foreign policy over Hillary ' s hawkish attitude a hundred times, Hillary, at least, promoted a coalition based strategy in Libya - which she regarded positively. The Dem gov then proceed with the same thing against ISIL.
The fact that the US took the backseat in Libya was refreshing. You can't really say the same with Republicans. Bush have shown us is cowboy foreign policy that Rep's took as a standard.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50253019]i find it curious when people say this. it is always democracy failing. i wasn't aware that democracy did anything by itself.[/QUOTE]
well when peoples votes mean less than the dollars that billionaires through around due to decisions about democracy that are legislative decisions, then yes it is a failing of democracy and it is caused by the people electing people who eventually hamstrung their own government
I suppose we should just forget who's at fault and vote for anyone that says the right sound bites, right?
Different kinds of people vote in primaries vs general. Whereas a general can have up to 60% turnout, primaries have around 10-15% voter turnout, and generally attract more political people who give a shit about the difference between right/left. In the primary elections, the aim is to find the sweet spot of "how far right/left can I get before people start to think I'm a fascist". In the general, the aim is to then drag yourself center/moderate enough that you can appeal to "common sense"/rational people who don't vote based on right/left. Donald trump has a lot more ground to cover than Clinton does, and I think that Trumps right wing/racism ideology is a lot less popular than Clinton's left wing/faux-Bernie ideology.
However, trump also has more power to bring out people who wouldn't otherwise vote, while Hillary is uninspiring to most voters.
[QUOTE=limbert;50253007]trump is going to wipe the floor with hillary while bill fucks melania[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure if Bill Clinton cuckolded Donald Trump, the heads of every /r/The_Donald user would simultaneously explode.
[QUOTE=mr apple;50252999]Pretty much, you guys had an actual politician willing to do good for you country instead of pandering for big companies and making your economy worse than it is. Yet, the majority of the population want Hillary or Trump. I don't know if it's a lack of education in America or what but your entire election has been hilarious.[/QUOTE]
Some polling would be nice but based purely anecodotally on family, friends, and coworkers I've talked to, Trump supporters generally favor Trump because he seems honest, says it like it is, and is politically incorrect. They don't seem to mention any specific platforms they support, they just tend to like his policies.
Clinton supporters are pragmatists who seem to acknowledge policy much more keenly and see her as the quintessential Democrat. These are people who generally approve of the job Obama has done and want someone that will continue that. Unlike what I've read on the internet, pretty much nobody has answered my question of "why" with "because she is a woman" or some variant thereof. When it comes down to Clinton vs Sanders it seems a lot of Clinton supporters just don't really know about him or his policies. They would probably know more about him or vote for him if he wasn't running against Clinton, certainly over whatever the Republican choice was, but Clinton in their eyes is a sure bet and someone who just aligns with them more generally than someone who is more keen to completely shake up the system.
Again though this is anecdotal and on top of that a state that Clinton campaigned in and won by a heavy margin so it's probably not a surprise Sanders didn't gain much traction here.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50252974] and since many sanders supporters have thrown their weight behind trump if sanders can't secure a DNC nomination[/QUOTE]
Yea, where exactly do you see this? On Facepunch?
[editline]4th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50253010]
Also trump didn't support the Iraq war, Clinton did. This election seems pretty pivotal on candidates history with the Iraq war[/QUOTE]
Trump also said for a while we should kill purposely target the family's of those known to be terrorist. You know just straight up advocating war crimes.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;50257588]I'm pretty sure if Bill Clinton cuckolded Donald Trump, the heads of every /r/The_Donald user would simultaneously explode.[/QUOTE]
Considering how dirty this election has been thusfar, maybe that's actually Hillary's best shot at victory. Get Bill to undermine Trump's strongman image.
Goddamn, and I thought 2012 was a shitshow.
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