9/11 Widowerreturns Glamour's "Woman of the Year Reward" because of Caitlyn Jenner - Polidicks

9/11 Widowerreturns Glamour's "Woman of the Year Reward" because of Caitlyn Jenner

77 replies, posted
In This Thread

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49139794]Question: do you have a problem with rich people? If so, what is it? Because rich people are still people. It really sounds like people are saying, "Hey, she doesn't count because she had money before she came out."[/QUOTE] Wealth almost eliminates the weight and legitimacy of any social stigma you can face.

[QUOTE=amute;49143990]Wealth almost eliminates the weight and legitimacy of any social stigma you can face.[/QUOTE] Not just wealth, but fame as well. Being famous might be stressful, but when you're that famous there's little you can do to absolutely ruin your public face. People love famous people no matter how much of a fuckface they are. Look at Bieber.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;49139861]I'm sorry but when you got money [b]almost[/b] every issue becomes a non issue.[/QUOTE] "Almost". In other words there [i]are[/i] issues money can't fix. Also the whole "I've had depression therefore I understand everyone else's depression" attitude has always been pretty fucking dumb. Everyone's depression is different. You can't say you know what anyone else (rich people or otherwise) is dealing with any more than we know what you're dealing with.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49141766]She, unlike myself, or even yourself, killed someone in a traffic accident, and didn't face ANY responsibility for that. [B]I know for a fact she faced different treatment than a regular person would who also killed someone under the exact same circumstances.[/B][/QUOTE] I know a person who has sped and killed someone under similar circumstances, and it's traumatized the absolute fuck out of them. It's caused them a ton of depression. Are you going to show up to this person's house and start calling him out for the murder he didn't go to jail for? Are you going to start undermining who he is as a person and the good things he's done with the fact that he hit someone while speeding? Are you going to complain when he tries to return to his normal life? Are you really going to be [I]that guy[/I]? People make mistakes. Some people make fatal mistakes. It sucks, but people have to progress and move on. It doesn't undermine what they did - it's just allowing people to grow past their former selves.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;49130527]caitlyn jenner the insanely courageous woman who's net worth is a hundred million dollars.[/QUOTE] bruce is a gross old tranny who killed someone in a car wreck and has a fucking great life, fuck off. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("flaming / transphobia" - Orkel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49144382]I know a person who has sped and killed someone under similar circumstances, and it's traumatized the absolute fuck out of them. It's caused them a ton of depression. Are you going to show up to this person's house and start calling him out for the murder he didn't go to jail for? Are you going to start undermining who he is as a person and the good things he's done with the fact that he hit someone while speeding? Are you going to complain when he tries to return to his normal life? Are you really going to be [I]that guy[/I]? People make mistakes. Some people make fatal mistakes. It sucks, but people have to progress and move on. It doesn't undermine what they did - it's just allowing people to grow past their former selves.[/QUOTE] Did that person not pay a fine, a fee, or get sued for damages? Were they reckless? Yeah accidents happen. People have to move on. Even in civil damages cases likes an accident, people want justice or some equality. I don't believe the family of the person Jenner killed got that. Nice to know though that if I was driving and killed someone you'd forgive me

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49144823]Did that person not pay a fine, a fee, or get sued for damages? Were they reckless? Yeah accidents happen. People have to move on. Even in civil damages cases likes an accident, people want justice or some equality. I don't believe the family of the person Jenner killed got that. [B]Nice to know though that if I was driving and killed someone you'd forgive me[/B][/QUOTE] I would, because I don't see it as justice to try and ruin your life by not allowing you to progress past a mistake you made. As far as I know, the person I'm talking about did not get a fine or whatever. It's a sensitive subject people doesn't really talk about, and something I'm not really looking to reference with the guy. As long as you're making a conscious effort to change your ways completely, you should receive some support. It is not productive to keep blaming you and to keep remembering your mistake in a way that stigmatizes you and makes you not want to live. If it wasn't intentional murder, why wouldn't we let it go? Death is awful, and I'm not in support of that or the action, but if you really think that death is something that shouldn't be forgiven even when it's a mistake, you might as well vouch for the death penalty or advocate for their suicide because fuck living that life. I'm genuinely not saying this just because it's Caitlyn Jenner or because it's my cousin. I've had a friend that was murdered and it's not something I take lightly. (and won't get into more detail about) I've also got a ton of friends who were raped or otherwise sexually abused. But my thing is I just don't want it to happen again - I don't have this lust for revenge or anything in me. I want people to be able to progress out of their mistakes and get help, because I would want a hand if my life spirals out of control too.

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;49144129]"Almost". In other words there [i]are[/i] issues money can't fix. Also the whole "I've had depression therefore I understand everyone else's depression" attitude has always been pretty fucking dumb. Everyone's depression is different. You can't say you know what anyone else (rich people or otherwise) is dealing with any more than we know what you're dealing with.[/QUOTE] I don't know what sort of hardcore depression you need where due to your funding you can't get proper help you need. Obviously Jenner wasn't suffering from that since she's doing just fine.

Just because I want SOME form of punishment means a whole lot of things to you that it doesn't mean in reality. I'm not asking for their lives, their freedoms, or whatever false fucking dichotomy you decide to stuff into my mouth. I'm not asking for them to go to jail or die. I'm not asking for them to never be forgiven. But it would be nice if people didn't forgive and forget instantly. ESPECIALLY when that person is a major fucking role model. But hey. Stuff more words in my mouth and more intentions in my mind. Argue with a straw man.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;49147404]I don't know what sort of hardcore depression you need where due to your funding you can't get proper help you need. Obviously Jenner wasn't suffering from that since she's doing just fine.[/QUOTE] And that's why no celebrity ever committed suicide, right? Not even Kurt Cobain or Marylin Monroe? They had the money to save themselves from their depression and nothing bad came after that.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49147431]And that's why no celebrity ever committed suicide, right? Not even Kurt Cobain or Marylin Monroe? They had the money to save themselves from their depression and nothing bad came after that.[/QUOTE]Did they seek help? Not as far as I know. Of course wealth is useless if you don't use it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49147419]Just because I want SOME form of punishment means a whole lot of things to you that it doesn't mean in reality. I'm not asking for their lives, their freedoms, or whatever false fucking dichotomy you decide to stuff into my mouth. I'm not asking for them to go to jail or die. I'm not asking for them to never be forgiven. But it would be nice if people didn't forgive and forget instantly. ESPECIALLY when that person is a major fucking role model. But hey. Stuff more words in my mouth and more intentions in my mind. Argue with a straw man.[/QUOTE] All I'm trying to say is that we're looking from the outside in, and we're not really involved. We don't really know what's happened outside of what's reported in the news. For someone like me, the idea that I was responsible for the death of an innocent person would be enough to do me in. For someone like the person I mentioned, it's a rough ride. Trying to stack on more and more punishment on a person because they've got money and fame isn't equal - it's discrimination. (I'm saying this because my friend also didn't face jailtime or anything.) And not focusing on how we can provide her a path on how she can return to a normal life where she doesn't make this mistakes again and trying to argue that she's an awful person is the problem I'm trying to talk about. If this were your friend who got stuck in this mess, would you feel differently about the situation? Knowing that previous to this, they were a good person and made a brutal mistake that will change their life forever? Now add fame and fortune to the mix. Now they're being made out to be a evil person. Now they're being made out to be a joke because they're trying to return to their previous lifestyle. Now the world is paying attention and trying to tear them down. [editline]19th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;49147445]Did they seek help? Not as far as I know. Of course wealth is useless if you don't use it.[/QUOTE] Do every day people seek help? Is the answer no because they see it as futile, or not? Are you expecting people who have the resources to have help to get over their mental struggles to get help? Because if so, you don't understand depression and you're just looking for a way to blame rich people for what they have compared to you.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49147475]All I'm trying to say is that we're looking from the outside in, and we're not really involved. We don't really know what's happened outside of what's reported in the news. For someone like me, the idea that I was responsible for the death of an innocent person would be enough to do me in. For someone like the person I mentioned, it's a rough ride. Trying to stack on more and more punishment on a person because they've got money and fame isn't equal - it's discrimination. And not focusing on how we can provide her a path on how she can return to a normal life where she doesn't make this mistakes again and trying to argue that she's an awful person is the problem I'm trying to talk about. If this were your friend who got stuck in this mess, would you feel differently about the situation? Knowing that previous to this, they were a good person and made a brutal mistake that will change their life forever? Now add fame and fortune to the mix. Now they're being made out to be a evil person. Now they're being made out to be a joke because they're trying to return to their previous lifestyle. Now the world is paying attention.[/QUOTE] Are you saying the worlds paying attention to the fact Jenner killed someone in a car accident over a year ago? You mean the horrible press she got for all of, oh, I don't know, a week before the entire country moved on and forgot about it? There aren't stories, there isn't media, there's no one in the mediasphere that makes this an issue, so don't throw that at me like that's an actual situation Jenner faced. It isn't. She didn't receive any major backlash, it was a passing story over a year ago. It's even more faded now. And again, [B]like I said clearly[/B], I am not asking for their lives, for their happiness, their freedom. I am not asking for them to die, or go to jail. I am not asking for them to relinquish their happiness. You can bullshit me into being some devil who wants them to suffer for things, but I am NOT advocating for that. You're stuffing words into my mouth. I merely want major role models that society hoists up as angels to be held responsible for their actions so that we don't further spread the idea that fame and fortune removes your responsibilities. Now, you can go ahead and go stick more words in my mouth, or redefine "responsible" so that owning up to your own actions in a public stage isn't part of that, that's fine, I'm not arguing with the strawman you're constructing in my image. [editline]19th November 2015[/editline] If it was my friend, I'd STILL say they should face the consequence THAT ANYONE WOULD FACE. How you can go "Nah, my friend, people i Like or respect, they can't be help responsible for actions even if they take a life because it was an accident!" No fuck that. You still get held responsible. I'd be there to help my friend, and I'd be a support for him, but it's still a tenant of society that one be held responsible for ones actions. Apparently, not in your book.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49147516]And again, [B]like I said clearly[/B], I am not asking for their lives, for their happiness, their freedom. I am not asking for them to die, or go to jail. I am not asking for them to relinquish their happiness. You can bullshit me into being some devil who wants them to suffer for things, but I am NOT advocating for that. You're stuffing words into my mouth.[/QUOTE] I'm not really arguing that you are something - I'm mainly trying to respond to a bigger idea that a lot of people have. A lot of people love giving punishment for things with a certain expression that I don't really understand. Also, in this scenario I don't really like that people are trying to break Caitlin Jenner down without really defining a path in which she can return back to normal. People are focused on bringing her down a notch saying that she's awful without explaining what she can do to actually go back to her previous reputation. Is it really going through the court system that's going to make things okay? Or will that not be enough? Will she have to face community service, or is that enough? Lose her license? Or is that not enough? Go to jail? Or is that not enough? If you don't want to be characterized, I'm sorry - make it clear what you want her to go through. In scenarios like this, people generally want her to be thrown in jail, or to lose everything, or to basically come down to their level in society as if they don't deserve their financial or societal position over a [I]mistake[/I]. I already explained a scenario in which a normal person went through the [I]same[/I] things and received no jail time. If you've got a problem with that, it's a problem you've gotta take up with the way law works in America - not Caitlin Jenner. [editline]19th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49147516]If it was my friend, I'd STILL say they should face the consequence THAT ANYONE WOULD FACE. How you can go "Nah, my friend, people i Like or respect, they can't be help responsible for actions even if they take a life because it was an accident!" No fuck that. You still get held responsible. I'd be there to help my friend, and I'd be a support for him, but it's still a tenant of society that one be held responsible for ones actions. Apparently, not in your book.[/QUOTE] Probably because they weren't functional after the accident and they were on the brink of committing suicide. For me, that's enough punishment. Also, for what its worth, I don't think you're a bad guy or anything.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49147545]I'm not really arguing that you are something - I'm mainly trying to respond to a bigger idea that a lot of people have. A lot of people love giving punishment for things with a certain expression that I don't really understand. Also, in this scenario I don't really like that people are trying to break Caitlin Jenner down without really defining a path in which she can return back to normal. People are focused on bringing her down a notch saying that she's awful without explaining what she can do to actually go back to her previous reputation. Is it really going through the court system that's going to make things okay? Or will that not be enough? Will she have to face community service, or is that enough? Lose her license? Or is that not enough? Go to jail? Or is that not enough? If you don't want to be characterized, make it clear, dude, because a lot of people literally want her jailed or dead for this. I already explained a scenario in which a normal person went through the [I]same[/I] things and received no jail time. If you've got a problem with that, it's a problem you've gotta take up with the way law works in America - not Caitlin Jenner. [editline]19th November 2015[/editline] Probably because they weren't functional after the accident and they were on the brink of committing suicide. For me, that's enough punishment.[/QUOTE] If you killed someone in an accident here, an investigation is made into the accident to find out who's responsible or not. The factors of your recklessness will be held against you. If you were more reckless and negligent than you have a right to, you're HELD RESPONSIBLE. Why do you view that as a fucking negative? Why do you need me to say multiple times "I don't want her life or her to go to jail" for you to, you know, read it? Maybe here, we have a better system, in fact, I'm fucking certain of it. Your culpability in an accident is assessed. If you're negligent and responsible for the accident, you'll lose your license, face jail time if it's not the first time, maybe lose your car. You know? BE HELD RESPONSIBLE? Just because a person is beating themselves up doesn't excuse them from the responsibilities they face in society. Are you telling me the litany of suicide scars running up and down my arms disqualify my from responsibility because my whole life I've been cripplingly depressed? Am I not responsible? No, I am. Like all people, I have a duty of personal responsibility to accept my actions as MY actions, and to take the consequences that come with them.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49147591]If you killed someone in an accident here, an investigation is made into the accident to find out who's responsible or not. The factors of your recklessness will be held against you. If you were more reckless and negligent than you have a right to, you're HELD RESPONSIBLE. Why do you view that as a fucking negative? Why do you need me to say multiple times "I don't want her life or her to go to jail" for you to, you know, read it? Maybe here, we have a better system, in fact, I'm fucking certain of it. Your culpability in an accident is assessed. If you're negligent and responsible for the accident, you'll lose your license, face jail time if it's not the first time, maybe lose your car. You know? BE HELD RESPONSIBLE? Just because a person is beating themselves up doesn't excuse them from the responsibilities they face in society. Are you telling me the litany of suicide scars running up and down my arms disqualify my from responsibility because my whole life I've been cripplingly depressed? Am I not responsible? No, I am. Like all people, I have a duty of personal responsibility to accept my actions as MY actions, and to take the consequences that come with them.[/QUOTE] I'll admit that I think it would be fair for Caitlin Jenner to go through the court process and deal with things like that or offer a settlement for the family that lost their family member, but the thing that I've always been afraid of and something that I don't think is necessarily justice-creating is the punishment that gets bestowed on the person responsible. It doesn't put them on the path to work back up from their mistakes. People are focused on the fact that she didn't get punished for things, and maybe the reason why I'm getting defensive is that the court system and prisons and stuff like that is great for impugning, but otherwise not constructive. If you, HumanAbyss, were to get into a brutal car accident in which you killed the other person, I'd want for you to find some way within the community to do the best you can to make the best out of a shitty situation for the people you affected but also for yourself - I don't like that we kind of push down on the people in our society and then just leave them behind alone. So perhaps my stance that I've been illustrating throughout this thread is more of a defense against that when it doesn't necessarily need to be - I'm afraid of punishment without complimentary repair. The only reason my friend was able to make it was because people gave them support and he wouldn't get any of that in jail. He'd be alone and broken down even more. And yes, I am aware that you aren't suggesting jailtime, but it contributes to my disgust of punishment in our society. In general, breaking down has never appealed to me as a form of justice. I've always thought correction is best done through building up if ever possible. Let's focus on why something happened and what we can do to ensure it never happens again. This is why I brought up the problems that have affected my friends and family - even in times were people the most dearest to me are killed, I'm interested in making sure stuff like this doesn't happen again to hurt other people. Punishment isn't the first thing that hits my mind.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49147663]I'll admit that I think it would be fair for Caitlin Jenner to go through the court process and deal with things like that or offer a settlement for the family that lost their family member, but the thing that I've always been afraid of and something that I don't think is necessarily justice-creating is the punishment that gets bestowed on the person responsible. It doesn't put them on the path to work back up from their mistakes. People are focused on the fact that she didn't get punished for things, and maybe the reason why I'm getting defensive is that the court system and prisons and stuff like that is great for impugning, but otherwise not constructive. If you, HumanAbyss, were to get into a brutal car accident in which you killed the other person, I'd want for you to find some way within the community to do the best you can to make the best out of a shitty situation for the people you affected but also for yourself - I don't like that we kind of push down on the people in our society and then just leave them behind alone. So perhaps my stance that I've been illustrating throughout this thread is more of a defense against that when it doesn't necessarily need to be - I'm afraid of punishment without complimentary repair. The only reason my friend was able to make it was because people gave them support and he wouldn't get any of that in jail. He'd be alone and broken down even more. And yes, I am aware that you aren't suggesting jailtime, but it contributes to my disgust of punishment in our society. In general, breaking down has never appealed to me as a form of justice. I've always thought correction is best done through building up if ever possible. Let's focus on why something happened and what we can do to ensure it never happens again. This is why I brought up the problems that have affected my friends and family - even in times were people the most dearest to me are killed, I'm interested in making sure stuff like this doesn't happen again to hurt other people. Punishment isn't the first thing that hits my mind.[/QUOTE] Not that I have extensively researched the topic but Jenner probably didn't have to do any form of correction or buildup. Mostly just walked away far easier then the vast majority of people would have. Nothing pisses off people more then something being unfair.

Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.