Why did they pick Isreal in the first place, it wouldn't be that bad if it was a different location.
[QUOTE=Extroll;24375058]This is such a great idea! Let's apply it to 'merica and kick all the Jews and niggers and spics out a hurr durr durr!
Seriously, that's what your defending.[/QUOTE]
He's got a point. Why is it any less racist when Jews ask for it?
Zionism is completely racially motivated, if you think it's religiously motivated you're kidding yourself. Zionism is the jewish equivalent of wanting all non-whites out of america, to establish a land for whites only. That's all it is.
ITT: Everyone makes up their own interpretation of what Zionist ideology is and insult everyone who disagrees. Israel has a problem with being retardedly right wing but it's probably not helping to call them Nazis.
Also doesn't FreeThinker remind you of CriticalThought? Obviously not the same agenda but still.
[QUOTE=Lyoko2;24381838][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c[/media][/QUOTE]
I love how that video showed Einstein, who was against Israel
[QUOTE=Warhol;24382182]I love how that video showed Einstein, who was against Israel[/QUOTE]
Hahaha was going to point that out.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24382182]I love how that video showed Einstein, who was against Israel[/QUOTE]
Mind specifying how Einstein opposed Israel? As far as I can tell his views were that Israel should exist but was concerned about what they were doing. Not too different from anyone really.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;24382461]Mind specifying how Einstein opposed Israel? As far as I can tell his views were that Israel should exist but was concerned about what they were doing. Not too different from anyone really.[/QUOTE]
He was an anti-Zionist. He was even offered presidency of Israel and he declined it for those reasons.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24382481]He was an anti-Zionist. He was even offered presidency of Israel and he declined it for those reasons.[/QUOTE]
Well since the term Zionist is so useless now I guess anti-Zionist is too. Einstein was 73 when he was offered the Presidency and gave the excuse [quote=Einstein]"All my life I have dealt with objective matters, hence I lack both the natural aptitude and the experience to deal properly with people and to exercise official function. I am the more more distressed over these circumstances because my relationship with the Jewish people became my strongest human tie once I achieved complete clarity about our precarious position among the nations of the world."[/quote]
Not at all related to hating Israel as he helped create it.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24382481]He was an anti-Zionist. He was even offered presidency of Israel and he declined it for those reasons.[/QUOTE]
He actually declined it because he thought he wasn't capable of being in that position, and because the role of a president in Israel is mostly cosmetic (He represents Israel in a lot of matters, but doesn't take place in the political process-the official head of the state is the prime minister).
And BTW, most of the Israeli public doesn't really care if a university says this or that. What you're taking here is the loud, right-wing minority and amplifying it even more.
[QUOTE=IStanI;24373860]America is a bad choice of an example, they killed and pillaged natives to get it. Israel is now killing and occupying Palestine, I don't really get your point?[/QUOTE]
I meant in their revolution against the British, did you miss the word "revolution"?
[editline]02:06PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;24374874]That's like comparing a guy moving out of his overprotectve parent's house to a guy who threatens to kill anyone who enters his yard.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not, you know nothing about the history of Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, so don't act as if you do.
[editline]02:07PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Extroll;24375058]This is such a great idea! Let's apply it to 'merica and kick all the Jews and niggers and spics out a hurr durr durr!
Seriously, that's what your defending.[/QUOTE]
Same as above. Just because a few people did kick attack the native population when they grew tired of the terror used against them, doesn't mean that everyone did this, it's the same with Islam and Islamic extremist terrorists.
[editline]02:08PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Warhol;24377554]Sir Muffin never disappoints.
[editline]04:02AM[/editline]
Using terrorism and oppression to gain those means does.
You Zionists don't deserve your own land.
[editline]04:03AM[/editline]
You may want a state, but boo hoo, you don't fucking slaughter the people on the original land for your own purposes. Just because YOU want it doesn't make it right.[/QUOTE]
I can't remember how many times did I prove you wrong on this, just stop, each time you post you're destroying your own argument more and more.
[editline]02:14PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=shatteredwindow;24378044]Why did they pick Isreal in the first place, it wouldn't be that bad if it was a different location.[/QUOTE]
Where would be a better place? Israel has a spiritual conneciton to the Jewish people because their ancestors lived there 2500 years ago. I know it's not enough of a reason to create your country there, but they first came there, worked the land, immigrated by the thousands and ten thousands, and after 60 years of work they were accepted into the ranks of the nations of the world, by the nations of the world (the UN).
[editline]02:22PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=CivilProtection;24380376]Zionism is completely racially motivated, if you think it's religiously motivated you're kidding yourself. Zionism is the jewish equivalent of wanting all non-whites out of america, to establish a land for whites only. That's all it is.[/QUOTE]
That's not even close, read some Wikipedia: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism[/url]
(It says the opposition part might be biased, but that doesn't matter, the top part, the core of Zionism, is what matters: "Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a nationalist[1] Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, calls for the self-determination of the Jewish people and a sovereign, Jewish national homeland.")
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24383194]I meant in their revolution against the British, did you miss the word "revolution"?[/quote]
If I go to a forigen land and randomly fight the power there, that's not a revolution.
[quote]No, it's not, you know nothing about the history of Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, so don't act as if you do.[/quote]
this is why ur wrong nah nah nah
[quote]Same as above. Just because a few people did kick attack the native population when they grew tired of the terror used against them, doesn't mean that everyone did this, it's the same with Islam and Islamic extremist terrorists.[/quote]
how do i irgun
[quote]I can't remember how many times did I prove you wrong on this, just stop, each time you post you're destroying your own argument more and more.[/quote]
you haven't? You haven't made one argument yet lol. You're starting to look like your boyfriend ohadje, all bark, no bite.
[quote]Where would be a better place?[/quote]
you don't need a place?
[quote]Israel has a spiritual conneciton to the Jewish people because their ancestors lived there 2500 years ago. I know it's not enough of a reason to create your country there, but they first came there, worked the land, immigrated by the thousands and ten thousands, and after 60 years of work they were accepted into the ranks of the nations of the world, by the nations of the world (the UN).[/quote]And after countless slaughtered Palestinians, rite?
[quote]That's not even close, read some Wikipedia: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism[/url]
(It says the opposition part might be biased, but that doesn't matter, the top part, the core of Zionism, is what matters: "Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a nationalist[1] Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, calls for the self-determination of the Jewish people and a sovereign, Jewish national homeland.")[/QUOTE]
Stop trying to represent the Jewish people, Zionism hijacked Judaism.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24383194]
[B][I]Where would be a better place?[/I][/B] Israel has a spiritual conneciton to the Jewish people because their ancestors lived there 2500 years ago. I know it's not enough of a reason to create your country there, but they first came there, worked the land, immigrated by the thousands and ten thousands, and after 60 years of work they were accepted into the ranks of the nations of the world, by the nations of the world (the UN).[/QUOTE]
Israel: occupano
[QUOTE=Warhol;24383715]If I go to a forigen land and randomly fight the power there, that's not a revolution.[/quote]
They didn't just move there and fight the natives and the British, they moved there peacefully since the 1880's and were promised their own country by the British, then in the 1920's the Arabs realized that they might just get it so they attacked both the British and the Jews.
[quote]this is why ur wrong nah nah nah[/quote]
wut?
[quote]how do i irgun[/quote]
Just like you Hamas.
[quote]you haven't? You haven't made one argument yet lol. You're starting to look like your boyfriend ohadje, all bark, no bite.[/quote]
Yes I did? Like more than 10 times?
[quote]you don't need a place?[/quote]
And who are you to decide for all of us?
[quote]And after countless slaughtered Palestinians, rite?[/quote]
That has nothing to do with the Jews receiving their own state, except setting it back a few steps actually, because the British made more restrictions each time the Irgun did something like this, but almost didn't do anything when the Arab terrorists did the same to the Jews.
[quote]Stop trying to represent the Jewish people, Zionism hijacked Judaism.[/QUOTE]
I never said I was represnting the entire Jewish people, but only Zionism, as in, the Jews who want their own state. If you're Jewish and you don't want your own state then obviously you aren't represnted by Zionism.
[editline]03:20PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=wewt!;24383792]Israel: occupano[/QUOTE]
huh?
Jewish people don't need their own state. The Nazis slaughtered millions of non-Jews too so where's their state?
If the Gypseis want their own state then I don't see why they shouldn't get it, also the Jewish state isn't there because of the holocaust, remember, Jews wanted their state even before the 20th century.
why do jews need their own state? why do they need one anymore than a christian state, a muslim state etc.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24384454]why do jews need their own state? why do they need one anymore than a christian state, a muslim state etc.[/QUOTE]
Because Jews are also an ethnicity like Germans, French, Japanese, Chinese, Turkish, Russian, Polish, Swedish, Scottish, Mexican, and whatever ethnicity you can think of.
comparing israel to america is a bad idea because we know how terrible our past was to the indians and mexicans, at least we acknowledge it, all you seem to be doing is plugging your ears while shouting "NONONONONO ITS FINE NONONONONO"
Because Christians and Muslims already have several states that are their own that act as safe places for them. Jews only have minority status in pretty much every country and for almost all of it were persecuted and treated as second class citizens. They wanted their own state so that there was a place that would accept Jews, treat them well and worked for their good. Seeing as countries have been created for less, it didn't really seem like that big of deal.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24383911]huh?[/QUOTE]
Occupied. They can't go there and make a new country.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24384520]Because Jews are also an ethnicity like Germans, French, Japanese, Chinese, Turkish, Russian, Polish, Swedish, Scottish, Mexican, and whatever ethnicity you can think of.[/QUOTE]
But those aren't ethnicities. A black man who was born in Germany is a German. A black man born in France is a Frenchman etc. Why can't the Jews just live in the same countries as everyone else? Why do they need their own one?
[QUOTE=wewt!;24384872]Occupied. They can't go there and make a new country.[/QUOTE]
The whole of Israel isn't occupied, only the West Bank, East Jerusalem (Although Israel officially annexed it into its territories), the Golan Heights, and until 5 years ago, the Gaza Strip.
[editline]05:28PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;24384918]But those aren't ethnicities. A black man who was born in Germany is a German. A black man born in France is a Frenchman etc. Why can't the Jews just live in the same countries as everyone else? Why do they need their own one?[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of people who are Jewish by religion but not by ethnicity. Not every black man born in German will feel like a German, and not every Jew born in German will feel German. Those who didn't feel that they belong to the country they were born in (most likely because of the persecutions they faced from the rest of the population) wanted to get a country of their own, what's wrong with that?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24385477]The whole of Israel isn't occupied, only the West Bank, East Jerusalem (Although Israel officially annexed it into its territories), the Golan Heights, and until 5 years ago, the Gaza Strip.
[editline]05:28PM[/editline]
There are plenty of people who are Jewish by religion but not by ethnicity. Not every black man born in German will feel like a German, and not every Jew born in German will feel German. Those who didn't feel that they belong to the country they were born in (most likely because of the persecutions they faced from the rest of the population) wanted to get a country of their own, what's wrong with that?[/QUOTE]
Am I wrong in saying that Judaism is a religion and not an ethnicity? I think it'd be one thing if you meant Hebrew, but Jews aren't a race, they're a religion. And didn't the Israelis also fight against the British in the 1920s? That's what I've heard, enlighten me if I'm wrong. But it seems kinda silly to me that they'd bite the hand that fed them.
A lot of universities and professors and such in the United States were opposed to the policies of Bush and his administration during his presidency, but we (royal we) didn't boycott of ask for the resignation of them simply because they disagreed. Dissent is a healthy part of a conversation such as this, because neither side is a hundred percent correct. It shouldn't be stifled because it doesn't fit into your (not yours specifically) political policy.
Also, I don't understand the correlation between Irgun and Hamas. As far as I know neither were operational at the same time, so therefor the statements that the actions of one rationalised the actions of another is wrong.
[QUOTE=imarawrus;24386183]And didn't the Israelis also fight against the British in the 1920s? That's what I've heard, enlighten me if I'm wrong. But it seems kinda silly to me that they'd bite the hand that fed them.[/QUOTE]
They bombed a British hotel.
Reading Wikipedia, they did much more than that. Irgun were not the nicest people during the Second World War. For instance attacking the British and demanding handing over authority to a Jewish Government whilst at the same time demanding the evacuation of all the Jews of Europe as the war was raging. And being angry that the British weren't doing more to evacuate them? Well, maybe if you would stop attacking them so that they might be able to focus more solely on the fact that Germany was trying to take over the world.
[QUOTE=imarawrus;24386183]Am I wrong in saying that Judaism is a religion and not an ethnicity? I think it'd be one thing if you meant Hebrew, but Jews aren't a race, they're a religion. And didn't the Israelis also fight against the British in the 1920s? That's what I've heard, enlighten me if I'm wrong. But it seems kinda silly to me that they'd bite the hand that fed them.
A lot of universities and professors and such in the United States were opposed to the policies of Bush and his administration during his presidency, but we (royal we) didn't boycott of ask for the resignation of them simply because they disagreed. Dissent is a healthy part of a conversation such as this, because neither side is a hundred percent correct. It shouldn't be stifled because it doesn't fit into your (not yours specifically) political policy.
Also, I don't understand the correlation between Irgun and Hamas. As far as I know neither were operational at the same time, so therefor the statements that the actions of one rationalised the actions of another is wrong.[/QUOTE]
Judaism is a religion, Jewishness is also an ethnicity. Let's look at Wikipedia's view of what's an ethnicity:
"An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and a tradition of common ancestry (corresponding to a history of endogamy)."
Now we can clearly see that Jews identify with each other through common heritage, common culture (shared religion) and a tradition of common ancestry. Just like how the Roma people are an ethnicity even though they are spread throughout all over the northern hemisphere and even more, because they share the same culture, same heritage, and same ancestry.
The difference between the Jewish ethnic group and the Roma ethnic group is that some of the Jews are also a nation, in that they seek self-determination (their own state), these Jews are called Zionists, since Zion represents the ancient Jewish kingdoms of Judea and Israel. The Roma however don't seek self-determination, they don't want their own state or country, so saying that the Jews shouldn't get their own state because the Roma or other ethnicities don't have their own state is false logic - most of the ethnicities that don't have their own state, don't even want it. The rest shouldn't be denied their own state (for example the Palestinians).
What I meant with the Irgun and Hamas is that they are both similar, they are both terrorist organizations who fought to protect their people and want to create their own state, and just like how the actions of the Hamas don't represent the whole Palestinian population, the same applies to the Irgun and how their actions don't represent the whole Zionist population.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24384347]If the Gypseis want their own state then I don't see why they shouldn't get it, also the Jewish state isn't there because of the holocaust, remember,[B] Jews wanted their state even before the 20th century[/B].[/QUOTE]
Too motherfucking bad. I want my own state, too.
[QUOTE=Sickle;24388414]Too motherfucking bad. I want my own state, too.[/QUOTE]
Are you a nation?
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