Trump Falsely Claims Obama Didn’t Contact Families of Fallen Soldiers - Polidicks

[quote]Mr. Obama regularly traveled to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to greet the caskets of troops, a ritual that began early in his presidency before he decided to deploy 30,000 troops to Afghanistan.[/quote] This really says a lot about how much he probably felt the weight of his decisions, entirely unlike our current president. [QUOTE=milktree;52786792][media]https://youtu.be/DSuPflaIO_A[/media][/QUOTE] trump is the best at being humble, too [video=youtube;s-_mbZ63WCA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-_mbZ63WCA[/video]

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52790819][Media]https://twitter.com/WPLGLocal10/status/920428488989073415[/media] Contact more families please[/QUOTE] There are no words.

What a turd of a human being

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52790819][Media]https://twitter.com/WPLGLocal10/status/920428488989073415[/media] Contact more families please[/QUOTE] I love how he's just physically capable of pretending to feel basic human empathy Like most sociopaths can at least fake it but he isnt even [i]good[/i] at it

Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't? How does that mean Obama never made any calls.

When did Trump say that Obama never made any calls? I'm trying to search for it, and all I can find is Trump saying “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls." I don't doubt that Trump would say something like that. I just can't seem to find it.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791110]When did Trump say that Obama never made any calls? I'm trying to search for it, and all I can find is Trump saying “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls." I don't doubt that Trump would say something like that. I just can't seem to find it.[/QUOTE] You just quoted it? "Obama and other presidents didn't make calls"?

[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52791091]Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't? How does that mean Obama never made any calls.[/QUOTE] It's Trump being caught bullshitting and backpedaling to cover his ass. He does it all the time. Let's break things down a bit. [QUOTE]“If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls"[/QUOTE] "Past Presidents didn't do this thing I'm doing, support me because I'm doing Presidential things, I'm better than them." "Mr. President, are you sure President Obama didn't call the families of dead soldiers?" [QUOTE]“I don’t know if he did,” the president said. “I was told he didn’t often, and a lot of presidents don’t. They write letters.” “President Obama, I think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn’t,” Mr. Trump continued. “That’s what I was told. All I can do is ask my generals.”[/QUOTE] "Well, I mean, I don't actually know, but I was told Obama didn't, it's not my fault I was given bad information, don't blame me for not knowing!!" The man has zero personal responsibility. He can't even own up to being given bad info and throws his Generals under the bus to save face after he's called out on an easily-verified fact. Especially when he's implying that past Republican Presidents didn't respect the families of fallen soldiers, not just Obama and Bill Clinton. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=kariko;52791130]You just quoted it? "Obama and other presidents didn't make calls"?[/QUOTE] He's looking for the word "never" in a quote because he's shooting for semantic points as usual. We'll just ignore the fact that Trump answered a question that asked him to clarify his assertion that Obama "never" called families: [QUOTE]After he answered the question about his response to the attack, Mr. Trump was pressed later in the news conference about [I]his claim that Mr. Obama had never called bereaved families[/I]. This time, he seemed to soften his tone.[/QUOTE] I haven't watched the clip in the OP, this may be the NYT editorializing the reporter's question while paraphrasing it, but, he isn't recorded as correcting the reporter to say "I never said he never", he just waffled on whether he was definite about the facts or not after previously stating them as unqualified facts. [editline]lol[/editline] Boy did I call it. [QUOTE=sgman91;52791159]No matter what, it was still a stupid thing for Trump to say.[/QUOTE] At least we're in agreement here.

[QUOTE=kariko;52791130]You just quoted it? "Obama and other presidents didn't make calls"?[/QUOTE] I don't know, that doesn't seem like the same thing as explicitly saying they NEVER make calls. Let's say we had a president who called 5 out of 100 families. I think it would be fair to say that they didn't make calls. The calls they did make were an exception to the rule. I don't know what proportion of calls/meetings Obama made. So there's really no way for me to evaluate his. No matter what, it was still a stupid thing for Trump to say.

It's just a bullshit title, nitpicking and make a complete false claim. [QUOTE]“I don’t know if he did,” the president said. “I was told he didn’t often, and a lot of presidents don’t. They write letters.” [B]“President Obama, I think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn’t,”[/B] Mr. Trump continued. “That’s what I was told. All I can do is ask my generals.”[/QUOTE]

Lets ignore how blantantly vague he's clearly trying to be lets just skim over that thing where he is being incredibly awkward and weird haha nothing to see lads

[QUOTE=J!NX;52791188]Lets ignore how blantantly vague he's clearly trying to be lets just skim over that thing where he is being incredibly awkward and weird haha nothing to see lads[/QUOTE] Oh, I'm all for pointing out how stupid and uncalled for the comment was. That's true regardless. I'm just not seeing the whole narrative about Trump saying that most presidents never once called a family. You're right, it was a vague statement. So let's not try and pretend that it was some detailed and specific claim.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791159]I don't know, that doesn't seem like the same thing as explicitly saying they NEVER make calls. Let's say we had a president who called 5 out of 100 families. I think it would be fair to say that they didn't make calls. The calls they did make were an exception to the rule. I don't know what proportion of calls/meetings Obama made. So there's really no way for me to evaluate his. No matter what, it was still a stupid thing for Trump to say.[/QUOTE] It's a silly thing to bring doubt into. We know that Obama definitely made calls without nitpicking every family whose son died in action. It's like saying "Hey man I heard Donald Trump likes riding horses bareback in the nude on nights of the full moon. I might be totally offbase and don't read too much into what I'm saying, but I think it's important to ask these questions." This silly situation I presented is hypothetically possible but realistically improbable Glenn Beck did the same fucking thing on his fox news show and it was just as awful then as it is now.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791194] I'm just not seeing the whole narrative about Trump saying that most presidents never once called a family.[/QUOTE] "narrative" he only personally literally that exact thing??? Where is the narrative, its [U]what he said[/U] but by all means continue on with the selective hearing

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791194]Oh, I'm all for pointing out how stupid and uncalled for the comment was. That's true regardless. I'm just not seeing the whole narrative about Trump saying that most presidents never once called a family. You're right, it was a vague statement. So let's not try and pretend that it was some detailed and specific claim.[/QUOTE] The president should learn to be more specific in his speech, maybe these constant clusterfucks will stop blowing up in his face. [QUOTE=J!NX;52791201]"narrative" he only personally literally that exact thing??? Where is the narrative, its [U]what he said[/U] but by all means continue on with the selective hearing[/QUOTE] Sgman seems to think any subtext is beneath him, even when it's super obvious like in this case.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52791200]It's a silly thing to bring doubt into. We know that Obama definitely made calls without nitpicking every family whose son died in action. It's like saying "Hey man I heard Donald Trump likes riding horses bareback in the nude on nights of the full moon. I might be totally offbase and don't read too much into what I'm saying, but I think it's important to ask these questions." This silly situation I presented is hypothetically possible but realistically improbable Glenn Beck did the same fucking thing on his fox news show and it was just as awful then as it is now.[/QUOTE] Yes, I agree, it was a stupid comment. There's zero good reasons for him to have made it. I don't know how many times I have to say this. I'm in full support of anyone who wants to say that it was a narcissistic ego-bloating statement. Note, though, that that isn't the narrative of this thread or the articles about his statement. They are, instead, saying that Trump made an explicitly false statement. The reporter in the OP's video also added the word "never" to Trump's original statement, even though it wasn't there. I assume he did so because the original statement wasn't clear enough to push the narrative that he wanted to push. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;52791201]"narrative" he only personally literally that exact thing??? Where is the narrative, its [U]what he said[/U] but by all means continue on with the selective hearing[/QUOTE] Why did the reporter asking the question in the OP add the word "never" to Trump's statement? [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambeth;52791205]The president should learn to be more specific in his speech, maybe these constant clusterfucks will stop blowing up in his face. Sgman seems to think any subtext is beneath him, even when it's super obvious like in this case.[/QUOTE] That would be cool, but him being vague doesn't justify people assuming or suggest specificity where it doesn't exist.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52791188]Lets ignore how blantantly vague he's clearly trying to be lets just skim over that thing where he is being incredibly awkward and weird haha nothing to see lads[/QUOTE] People like sgman love to latch on to the most irrelevant points in these articles so they can have an excuse to disregard the bigger picture rather than challenging their own preconceived world view. Better to just ignore them rather than giving them attention because it just validates their stupidity.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791213] Why did the reporter asking the question in the OP add the word "never" to Trump's statement? [/QUOTE] it's not as if Trump said “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls" [editline]18th October 2017[/editline] Oh wait he did and your selectively hearing what you want to hear All of time and space is not relevant to this. Whats relevant to this is that we're talking about what he, in his own words, said.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791213] Why did the reporter asking the question in the OP add the word "never" to Trump's statement?[/QUOTE] If i said you did not post in this thread, isnt that the same as saying you never posted in this thread :thinking:

[QUOTE=J!NX;52791236]it's not as if Trump said “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls" [editline]18th October 2017[/editline] Oh wait he did and your selectively hearing what you want to hear[/QUOTE] I've already given a very specific example where that doesn't equate to the question asked by the reporter. You seem to have missed it. Here, let me quote myself: [QUOTE]Let's say we had a president who called 5 out of 100 families. I think it would be fair to say that they didn't make calls. The calls they did make were an exception to the rule. I don't know what proportion of calls/meetings Obama made. So there's really no way for me to evaluate his.[/QUOTE] Do you disagree? [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] Here's another example: Let's say I told you, "I don't play computer games." Does that mean I never, once, ever play any games at all? Or does it mean that I don't make a point to play games, and that it isn't a normal part of my life? I would think the latter. You may have played here and there when at someone else's house. It isn't equivalent to saying, "I have never played computer games." Language isn't nearly as black and white as you're trying to make it seem.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791247]I've already given a very specific example where that doesn't equate to the question asked by the reporter. You seem to have missed it. Here, let me quote myself: Do you disagree?[/QUOTE] I think this sounds like a load of skipping around the 'real meaning' and making excuses I think that what he said in its moment should be taken at face value and he shouldn't call other presidents out to boot because he honestly isn't doing that good of a job to warrant rubbing his own ego I think that Trump doesn't actually give a shit about veterans and has no sense of respect, and that he actually just wants to use it as bragging rights I think this sounds like a load of bullshit and he should own up to saying something incredibly stupid and you should stop sniffing his farts But that would never happen, because Trump would never realize that he said something dumb [QUOTE=sgman91;52791247] Here's another example: Let's say I told you, "I don't play computer games." Does that mean I never, once, ever play any games at all? Or does it mean that I don't make a point to play games, and that it isn't a normal part of my life? I would think the latter. You may have played here and there when at someone else's house. It isn't equivalent to saying, "I have never played computer games." Language isn't nearly as black and white as you're trying to make it seem.[/QUOTE] We could argue semantics all day or we could discuss what he said in his own words

[QUOTE=J!NX;52791259]I think this sounds like a load of skipping around the 'real meaning' and making excuses[/QUOTE] Your argument consists of, "No, you're wrong. I'm right because I said so." You also seem to have missed the multiple times I've called him an idiot and this statement stupid. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;52791259]We could argue semantics all day or we could discuss what he said in his own words[/QUOTE] The argument is literally about semantics. We are discussing the meaning of words. I've presented real life comparable situations where saying that something "doesn't" happen is not equivalent to saying that it has "never" happened. You've countered by... saying I'm wrong. Great. Thanks.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791262]Your argument consists of, "No, you're wrong. I'm right because I said so." You also seem to have missed the multiple times I've called him an idiot and this statement stupid. [/QUOTE] His argument that "I don't know what proportion of calls/meetings Obama made. So there's really no way for me to evaluate his." is hilarious because there is no way that he would know if this is true for most presidents. The reason the "Narrative" as you call it exists is because if there is no way to know this, it's a statement that's being made from nothing at all. It's a false statement because it comes from a place of having no knowledge of that thing. Lets not forget that for a very long time phones didn't even exist. Handhelds only existed since 73.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791262] You also seem to have missed the multiple times I've called him an idiot and this statement stupid. [/QUOTE] Why do you try so hard to present yourself as a neutral third party and yet constantly rush to Trump's defense with these bullshit semantic arguments?

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791262] The argument is literally about semantics. We are discussing the meaning of words. I've presented real life comparable situations where saying that something "doesn't" happen is not equivalent to saying that it has "never" happened. You've countered by... saying I'm wrong. Great. Thanks.[/QUOTE] You presented something that's a false equivalence in terms of language. Why wouldn't I dismiss it? "I don't play video games" isn't bragging about doing something more than other people so how is that the same thing? I also don't see where "never" comes into this. I don't give a shit about what the reporter said. Your bringing that up is why I'm dismissing it, because I'm not talking about what the reporter said, I'm talking about what Trump said. Trump said “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls", he's specifically name dropping Obama and then immediately back pedeling with "No wait I can't know that" You are wrong because you have no point to make by stating that 'real life example'. That's an entirely different thing that has nothing to do with what Trump said.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52791280]His argument that "I don't know what proportion of calls/meetings Obama made. So there's really no way for me to evaluate his." is hilarious because there is no way that he would know if this is true for most presidents.[/QUOTE] Uhh, no, my argument is, "It was a stupid, albit vague, statement, and people shouldn't try to make it seem like a specific claim that Obama never called any families." Can you show that no one told Trump that? I know I can't. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;52791294]You presented something that's a false equivalence in terms of language. Why wouldn't I dismiss it? "I don't play video games" isn't bragging about doing something more than other people so how is that the same thing? I also don't see where "never" comes into this. I don't give a shit about what the reporter said. Your bringing that up is why I'm dismissing it, because I'm not talking about what the reporter said, I'm talking about what Trump said. Trump said “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls", he's specifically name dropping Obama and then immediately back pedeling with "No wait I can't know that" You are wrong because you have no point to make by stating that 'real life example'. That's an entirely different thing that has nothing to do with what Trump said.[/QUOTE] How about, "They don't play video games," while trying to brag about how much better you are at video games? Is that similar enough for you? Does that mean the person in question has never played a game in their entire life? No, of course not. It means the person isn't a regular video game player, and doesn't have those skills. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] The word "never" is vital because Trump's statement is only automatically false, on it's face, if he was claiming that Obama never called a family. If he wasn't claiming that Obama "never" called any family, ever, then showing a few examples of Obama calling families doesn't do anything to prove his statement false.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791311]Uhh, no, my argument is, "It was a stupid, albit vague, statement, and people shouldn't try to make it seem like a specific claim that Obama never called any families." Can you show that no one told Trump that? I know I can't. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] How about, "They don't play video games," while trying to brag about how much better you are at video games? Is that similar enough for you? Does that mean the person in question has never played a game in their entire life? No, of course not. It means the person isn't a regular video game player, and doesn't have those skills. [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] The word "never" is vital because Trump's statement is only automatically false, on it's face, if he was claiming that Obama never called a family. If he wasn't claiming that Obama "never" called any family, ever, then showing a few examples of Obama calling families doesn't do anything to prove his statement false.[/QUOTE] At what point is it no long Devil's Advocate? 'Cuz what you're playing right now is something like Heckguy's Pineapple.

In my opinion, the correct critique of Trump's statement would be this: "Mr. Trump, you made a very divisive comment about past presidents habits of calling or not calling families. What was your claim based on? We know about multiple families who were contact by Mr. Obama. Can you clarify your statement and why you felt that it was necessary to call out previous presidents like that?" [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=kyle877;52791318]At what point is it no long Devil's Advocate? 'Cuz what you're playing right now is something like Heckguy's Pineapple.[/QUOTE] I get it, people don't agree with me! I couldn't care less. If you have something of substance to contribute, please do.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52791319]I get it, people don't agree with me! I couldn't care less. Do you have something to contribute, or are you just here to try and make yourself look good by telling Facepunch how dumb you think Sgman91 is?[/QUOTE] What he said is quite obviously him being caught in another bumbling lie, which at this point is nothing fucking new. It wasn't a 'divisive statement.' It was a lie, and you're a doddering fool for trying to defend it as anything otherwise.

[QUOTE=kyle877;52791338]What he said is quite obviously him being caught in another bumbling lie, which at this point is nothing fucking new. It wasn't a 'divisive statement.' It was a lie, and you're a doddering fool for trying to defend it as anything otherwise.[/QUOTE] Great, thanks for really addressing the argument I've presented! "It's obvious" is the best argument I've seen all day! [editline]17th October 2017[/editline] Is "They don't smoke" equivilent to "They've never smoked?" Is "They don't play video games" equivalent to "They've never played video games?" Is "They don't eat carrots" equivalent to "They've never eaten a carrot?" Is "They don't call families" equivalent to "They've never called a family?" If you wouldn't answer "yes" to all of these, then please tell me why the final one is equivalent and the others aren't.