EpiPen's 400 Percent Price Hike Has Parents Scrambling - Polidicks

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50910336]I feel that generic alternatives for ransom pricing on essential drugs is a kind of warez that would be widely accepted, even moreso than sharing movies or software. The only problem would be ensuring quality control in uncontrolled knockoffs. This makes me sick and angry. I want Bill Gates and/or others among the hyperwealthy to start buying drug patents and open-sourcing them/releasing them to the public domain. He doesn't need the money after all, so he can afford to pull a reverse Shkreli.[/QUOTE] we have generics here, in fact the government always tells us to use the cheapest generic because they are the same quality you can't have a free market in medicine if medical patents exist

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50910105]Martin Shkreli, part 2[/QUOTE] Except the company that makes the epipens probably wont give them out for free to people who need it and cant afford it, unlike shkreli.

[QUOTE=Chaitin;50910409][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/b8uCuhZ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] He's right though, it should be illegal. Private healthcare is an industry that [I]literally[/I] makes money off human suffering.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50911335]He's right though, it should be illegal. Private healthcare is an industry that [I]literally[/I] makes money off human suffering.[/QUOTE] Why is it that doctors have to take the Hippocratic Oath but pharmaceutical companies only have to care about efficacy and side effects (both worth caring about, don't get me wrong)? Ugh.

[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;50911121]Why is there a fucking expiration date on EpiPens, its not like adrenaline breaks down over time in the vial.[/QUOTE] Doesn't it degrade when exposed to temperature extremes? Epinephrine properly stored doesn't really degrade much, but my understanding was that it can start to break down at higher temperatures.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;50910609] Three of these are prices that I had to pay myself. 18 minutes worth of a dentist's time and a single shot of numbing stuff (2 separate occasions) cost me more than 2 grand[/QUOTE] In the UK the same thing cost me about £30. I was £7 for two X-Rays. Honestly all of the horror stories I hear from people over US healthcare makes me question if the USA can even be considered civilised in the same way as Western Europe.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50911417]Yes. Yes it does. The expiration date is a date that the drug is guaranteed to function. After that it could lose effectiveness, it could gain effectiveness, it could become toxic.. One never knows. Better to have expiration dates than "lol hope it works m8" [editline]18th August 2016[/editline] Exposure to higher temps, or extreme low temps, or too much exposure to sunlight can directly affect how well the drug works.[/QUOTE] Okay, just checking, I didn't want the reason to be "because profit", but something medically legit.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50911446]The real bullshit is sterile supplies with expiration dates.[/QUOTE] Not really. Some sterile stuff will chemically degrade over time. Other stuff simply isn't tested past a certain date. There's no financial incentive to test shit for years and years, and doing so is expensive. The dates are liability protection.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50910658]But the free market will fix it all right??? No regulations would stop all this right?!? This is one side effect of drug companies patenting their drugs and delivery systems. If the patent for the delivery system is vague enough they can essentially "rounded rectangle" anyone else trying to make a simple injector pen. I get that R&D is expensive, but jacking prices up because you know people have no other choice isn't going to recuperate those costs. You'll just make enemies with a lot of poorly people.[/QUOTE] While I don't want to start a patent debate in this thread, I'm fairly certain that 'no regulations' would also include patent infringement. This is a side-effect of the patent system, crippling the market so that competitors can't provide their own alternatives. This has nothing to do with capitalism or the free market.

I see people from the US badmouthing universal healthcare all the time saying "the system works" but jesus, this is just a prime example of why the healthcare/medicinal industry has no place being monetised. Say what you will about the NHS but I'd sooner pay extra taxes if it means me, my family and everyone else can get a chance at living rather than being in crippling debt over this shit. This is the kind of thing that people should get violent over. I really hope people are able to find alternatives, either through people selling this stuff cheap on the black market or importing it in from Canada. Seriously, US, you need to fight for this shit.

This is one of the many reasons why I wouldn't want to live in US. Seeing what kind of things people can get away with if they have enough money/authority just makes me sick.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50910610]Yes, Shkreli, it fuckin' should be. This isn't just "trying to make money", it's deliberately exploiting people whose lives [I]literally[/I] depend on your product. People like Shkreli should absolutely be in prison, not the least of which is because they [B]know[/B] they're ruining lives, and fucking [B]gloat[/B] about it because they manage to skirt legality while doing so.[/QUOTE] From what I remember, what shkreli did was a bit different. To buy whatever drug it was as a normal person, the price was the same. The price hike hit insurance companies, which according to him wouldnt impact the end user because it was a drug that wasnt used a great deal anywya, but very important to the people who did use it

Typical USA is all I am saying.

[QUOTE=Pascall;50910225]Pretty much. Insurance probably brings price down but... You know, not everyone has insurance that covers that sort of thing. My price for it was about $50 when I got it with my (parent's) insurance, but I guarantee that it'll keep going up since they've decided they don't give a shit and insurance won't be able to keep up. Not to mention that I'll be on my own insurance in about a year and I highly doubt it'll be as good as what we have now. I expect to be paying upwards of a hundred dollars for the damn things. It's fucked up.[/QUOTE]Well you're aiming to get epinephrine in pure form so if you ever needed an alternative and couldn't afford it you could always just use the vial and syringe option. You still need a prescription but if you talk to your doctor and explain exactly why you need a tiny vial of adrenaline on hand I think they'd agree to that. It's not like you're asking for fentanyl or something. There's also the DIY option, inhalers for bronchial asthma can contain albuterol but some contain epinephrine as their main ingredient. Since anaphylactic shock is systemic it won't fix the problem but it might buy you time. That said the other option is to literally do it yourself and induce an adrenaline response and the fastest way is pain and intense physical activity. [QUOTE=Zephyrs;50910360]I'm sure there's some legal quagmire involved with carrying needles around, but on private property, nobody gives a shit.[/QUOTE]Carry a medical bracelet that says you're allergic and anyone who gives you shit for it is asking for a lawsuit, you have a valid reason. [QUOTE=despo;50910493]I imagine your local drug dealer selling you life saving medication on the cheap at some street corner.[/QUOTE]You can get fucking MDIs over the counter, Primatene Mist doesn't need a prescription. [editline]19th August 2016[/editline] I don't have severe allergies but I am a crazy fucking survivalist and if the system makes something difficult for me to get I'll figure out a way to get it anyway because fuck you this is [I]America[/I] and I'll stockpile all the goddamn inhalers just because I can. Also because some of the canisters can fit inside a shotgun shell which is important when I want to shoot cinder blocks, those fuckers expire and I make my own black powder out of my own piss so it's a thing that happens when they go bad. Pascall if you ever need rescuing when the happening happens I'll save you.

So I looked it up on Wikipedia and there was this part about the price: [QUOTE]In the United States, one brand of autoinjector, the EpiPen, manufactured by Mylan, dominates the market. Many people have commented that Mylan has raised the price from $57 each in 2007 to $600 for a package of two in 2016. In France, two EpiPens cost $85. [B]Mylan justifies the price because of their efforts in creating awareness and access.[/B][/QUOTE] :suicide:

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50913230] Pascall if you ever need rescuing when the happening happens I'll save you.[/QUOTE] N-no that's okay.

And some people are surprised to hear that medical expenses are the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the US: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simple-thrifty-living/top-10-reasons-people-go-_b_6887642.html[/url] [quote]A recent Harvard University study showed that medical expenses account for approximately 62 percent of personal bankruptcies in the US. Interestingly, the study also showed that [B]72 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy due to medical expenses had some type of health insurance[/B][/quote]

i dont understand why medical shit in the u.s is so utterly and hopelessly fucked

[QUOTE=CommanderPT;50910147]I don't know much about EpiPen usage but how often are they needed? You get an allergic reaction and you use it and it is spent or does it have several doses? Either way that is way too much for something so important.[/QUOTE] IMO anything that has the [B]sole function to save someones life and is proven to work[/B] should be (within capitalistic reason...) government subsidised... dum dum duuuuuum But that might just be my socialism cropping up... not wanting to have people fall dead in the streets because they cant afford both an epipen and the rent...

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50913578]But that might just be my [B][U]socialism[/U][/B] cropping up... not wanting to have people fall dead in the streets because they cant afford both an epipen and the rent...[/QUOTE] Careful with that "S" word. Many Americans are allergic to it, and now they can't afford their EpiPens.

[QUOTE=Pascall;50913284]N-no that's okay.[/QUOTE]No means yes at least half the time so I think I know what you mean. I get it, you can't talk here. Don't worry, I'll clear out a space for you in the bunker anyway. I'll just find another place to put all my [del]dragon dildos[/del] pictures of [del]dragons[/del] normal wholesome human porn. Of course I have tons of that. [editline]19th August 2016[/editline] I have tons of that because it's good for trading after the apocalypse.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50910105]Martin Shkreli, part 2[/QUOTE] This is actually pretty worse, because for some people, access to an Epi pen right then and there is literally a matter of life and death.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50913567]i dont understand why medical shit in the u.s is so utterly and hopelessly fucked[/QUOTE] It's a shitty feeling to know that you actually have to try and avoid going to the doctor/hospital as much as you can to avoid going into extreme debt in the US. For instance; me breaking my leg and having to go to the hospital would end up being so much that I'd probably prefer filing bankruptcy to actually paying it back. Another thing is the probability of getting some other kind of sickness IN the hospital which causes you to stay longer. My mom got pneumonia from just being in the hospital while she was being treated for her breast cancer I deal with bankruptcy and it's honestly sickening seeing how high medical debts get for my clients. Thank god you can get those discharged in a bankruptcy, but it's a shitty thing to have to do that just to live.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;50913567]i dont understand why medical shit in the u.s is so utterly and hopelessly fucked[/QUOTE] Because people forgot how to protest/riot the ones responsible for this situation.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50910105]Martin Shkreli, part 2[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Chaitin;50910409][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/b8uCuhZ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] I'm gonna be the devil's advocate here: Shkreli made it very clear that they hiked the prices of the drug [I]his [/I]company bought because the drug was old, outdated and generally awful and they wanted to pour more money into R&D for a more effective treatment. That, and if you didn't have health insurance, they would arrange for you to get the drug for free. So that in combination sounds fine to me. Doesn't exactly seem like Mylan has the same in plan... (Also as for Shkreli's Twitter, take everything on there with a spoon of salt. He's basically grown comfortably into his "evil villain" clothing and spends most of his time trolling people.)

Here's a wicked crazy idea: Abolish copyright/patents for medication past 10 years.

Or make medical patents like this: You invented something / figured something new out? Nice! Now everyone using & profiting from your invention/patent has to give you out 20% of their profit, but they can sell it at any price they wish. This would make monopolies non-existent (unless all companies talk together and ramp prices up)

[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;50911121]Why is there a fucking expiration date on EpiPens, its not like adrenaline breaks down over time in the vial.[/QUOTE] using old medicine, especially that meant for fast acting emergency use, is not exactly something you want to take chances with

though medicines in pill form usually last forever (10 years+)

Protest time