[QUOTE=Deiru;47948776]Guy rolls up to the front of the police headquarters in an armoured van. Officers approach to investigate, realise what's going on, and leg it. Guy in van opens fire, but doesn't hit anyone, and drives off, ramming a police car in the progress. Some negotiations, some bombs found. When the EOD Robot approached one bomb under a police car, it detonated, damaging (but not destroying) the robot. Other devices were either false reports, or pipe bombs that were made safe. Back to guy in van, SWAT Sniper shoots out the engine block with a .50 cal. Guy tries to open fire again, so sniper shoots through the windshield, killing him, but they need to make sure the driver is dead, and that the van is safe, since there were earlier reports of possible explosives in the van.
No injuries, and he's the only one to die. The EOD robot is still functional too.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit man, that's crazy but I'm glad that nobody besides the asshole was (seemingly) injured. I remember watching the boston marathon bomber manhunt, that shit was crazy. Kind of seemed like the guy was trying to go for that but it didn't work so well.
[QUOTE=Deiru;47948776]Guy rolls up to the front of the police headquarters in an armoured van. Officers approach to investigate, realise what's going on, and leg it. Guy in van opens fire, but doesn't hit anyone, and drives off, ramming a police car in the progress. Some negotiations, some bombs found. When the EOD Robot approached one bomb under a police car, it detonated, damaging (but not destroying) the robot. Other devices were either false reports, or pipe bombs that were made safe. Back to guy in van, SWAT Sniper shoots out the engine block with a .50 cal. Guy tries to open fire again, so sniper shoots through the windshield, killing him, but they need to make sure the driver is dead, and that the van is safe, since there were earlier reports of possible explosives in the van.
No injuries, and he's the only one to die. The EOD robot is still functional too.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a movie
[QUOTE=~Kiwi~v2;47945564]Holy fuck.[/QUOTE]
When you're shooting guns and you start hearing those stereotypical bullet sounds, you need to stop firing since those bullets are bouncing back at you pretty close.
I shot a thick steel I beam I was using as a target, the ricochet flew back over my head and chopped off a few tree branches.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;47947386]Sounds like some Sovereign Citizen bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Some dude who snapped. Claims that the government took his kid away and called him a terrorist. He decided to prove them wrong by launching an armed assault on a local government building.
[QUOTE=Ridge;47949100]Some dude who snapped. Claims that the government took his kid away and called him a terrorist. He decided to prove them wrong by launching an armed assault on a local government building.[/QUOTE]
Ooohhhh i see. So a Soverign Citizen.
Honestly banning the use of cartridges in the anti-materiel range is dumb, because in the past people have used armored vehicles to commit crimes, and in the future people probably will too.
[QUOTE=mecaguy03;47949403]Honestly banning the use of cartridges in the anti-materiel range is dumb, because in the past people have used armored vehicles to commit crimes, and in the future people probably will too.[/QUOTE]
I don't even get why people want anti-materiel weaponry for police banned
Have the police ever shot into a crowd of protesters with a Barret or something? Like that shit would be national news, the only thing I can imagine them using it for is taking out an engine like in this case. I don't really see any good coming from banning the use of .50 Cal's by police
Like if we want to reduce damage to civilians maybe something to do with usage of gas grenades would be a better idea then banning something rarely used that sounds scarier.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47949653]Like if we want to reduce damage to civilians maybe something to do with usage of gas grenades would be a better idea then banning something rarely used that sounds scarier.[/QUOTE]
Or banning hollow-point bullets, which police use for their considerable stopping power, but are actually banned in warfare for the same reason, overkill flesh damage.
I'd be against that though personally, stopping power is very important for a police officer's side arm.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47949653]I don't even get why people want anti-materiel weaponry for police banned
Have the police ever shot into a crowd of protesters with a Barret or something? Like that shit would be national news, the only thing I can imagine them using it for is taking out an engine like in this case. I don't really see any good coming from banning the use of .50 Cal's by police
Like if we want to reduce damage to civilians maybe something to do with usage of gas grenades would be a better idea then banning something rarely used that sounds scarier.[/QUOTE]
You seem to forget things like WACO have happened. I'm not saying that cops shouldn't have 50's, but to think they'd only use it for things like engine blocks is naive.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;47950074]You seem to forget things like WACO have happened. I'm not saying that cops shouldn't have 50's, but to think they'd only use it for things like engine blocks is naive.[/QUOTE]
That was the ATF and the FBI.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;47950074]You seem to forget things like WACO have happened. I'm not saying that cops shouldn't have 50's, but to think they'd only use it for things like engine blocks is naive.[/QUOTE]
But what have they been used for lately? Ignoring that it was the ATF and FBI and not police, Waco was in 1993. That's 22 years ago.
cops dont need 50s, what they need is steel core ammunition for critical situations
all cops account for is flesh targets so most of their shit is all hollowpoints which does literally nothing against metallic surfaces
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47950112]But what have they been used for lately? Ignoring that it was the ATF and FBI and not police, Waco was in 1993. That's 22 years ago.[/QUOTE]
lol so 22 years ago makes it irrelevant? it's still the same bullet
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47950112]But what have they been used for lately? Ignoring that it was the ATF and FBI and not police, Waco was in 1993. That's 22 years ago.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you've herd the term "history tends to repeat itself". It due, and it will. It's only a matter of time.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;47951185]I'm sure you've herd the term "history tends to repeat itself". It due, and it will. It's only a matter of time.[/QUOTE]
You can apply that logic to anything to try to make it sound more likely.. The fact of the matter is that it is an extremely rare event that police abuse a .50 and I'd prefer to stay over-prepared rather then under-prepared in the case that events like this one pop up, especially with the increased unease in the middle east lately.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47950071]Or banning hollow-point bullets, which police use for their considerable stopping power, but are actually banned in warfare for the same reason, overkill flesh damage.
I'd be against that though personally, stopping power is very important for a police officer's side arm.[/QUOTE]
don't forget that overpenetration is a very serious issue also
how many times do you think a cop is gonna have to shoot through a car door or a wall vs. the times where they might potentially go through something and nail an innocent behind it?
that said yeah banning .50s for cops makes 0 sense since they actually have a realistic, possible use (as seen here) as opposed to cops tooling around in fucking MRAPs and shit
[QUOTE=zach1193;47951109]lol so 22 years ago makes it irrelevant? it's still the same bullet[/QUOTE]
That isn't even close to my point. I'm saying the only major misuse of 50 cal in 2 decades was Waco, and one time that long ago isn't enough to ban something from police use.
[editline]13th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;47951689]don't forget that overpenetration is a very serious issue also
how many times do you think a cop is gonna have to shoot through a car door or a wall vs. the times where they might potentially go through something and nail an innocent behind it?
that said yeah banning .50s for cops makes 0 sense since they actually have a realistic, possible use (as seen here)[B] as opposed to cops tooling around in fucking MRAPs and shit[/B][/QUOTE]
Even MRAPs aren't a problem. They're unarmed, basically just SWAT vans but the PD's get them crazy cheap.
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;47951689]don't forget that overpenetration is a very serious issue also
how many times do you think a cop is gonna have to shoot through a car door or a wall vs. the times where they might potentially go through something and nail an innocent behind it?
that said yeah banning .50s for cops makes 0 sense since they actually have a realistic, possible use (as seen here) as opposed to cops tooling around in fucking MRAPs and shit[/QUOTE]
The MRAPs are useful. They can take punishment during riots and go where a regular patrol car can't. They can approach and rip a door off an armored van rigged with explosives like in this case, Or be used as rolling cover against 2 guys with full auto's to get injured civilians and officers out of the line of fire in North Hollywood (Though this was a SWAT armored truck), and they're already bought with our tax dollars for the military and heading to be scrapped when they're still perfectly fine when a department puts in a request for them
Police just should have access to all of this shit should they need it. They might not need it for 10 years, or 20. But eventually a situation is going to crop up when having it is going to save innocent people from harm or death.
Not that it's going to matter anyway. Everyone's baiting the police into confrontations and recording it, complaining every day about how they enforce the laws. I don't know if they expect the police to just walk away when someone says No or what, but that's not how it works. Now people are ambushing officers, rival gangs are uniting to take out cops together, and there's a mass exodus of cops everywhere because Fuck it. It's not worth putting your life on the line every day for that shit. So NOW people in Baltimore are living in fear because the police said Okay, have it your way then, and crime is spiraling out of control
[QUOTE=TheTalon;47951812]The MRAPs are useful. They can take punishment during riots and go where a regular patrol car can't. They can approach and rip a door off an armored van rigged with explosives like in this case, Or be used as rolling cover against 2 guys with full auto's to get injured civilians and officers out of the line of fire in North Hollywood (Though this was a SWAT armored truck), and they're already bought with our tax dollars for the military and heading to be scrapped when they're still perfectly fine when a department puts in a request for them
Police just should have access to all of this shit should they need it. They might not need it for 10 years, or 20. But eventually a situation is going to crop up when having it is going to save innocent people from harm or death.
Not that it's going to matter anyway. Everyone's baiting the police into confrontations and recording it, complaining every day about how they enforce the laws. I don't know if they expect the police to just walk away when someone says No or what, but that's not how it works. Now people are ambushing officers, rival gangs are uniting to take out cops together, and there's a mass exodus of cops everywhere because Fuck it. It's not worth putting your life on the line every day for that shit. So NOW people in Baltimore are living in fear because the police said Okay, have it your way then, and crime is spiraling out of control[/QUOTE]
So can an APC. then again, the problem with MRAPs is mostly one of public opinion - your average joe or jane is gonna look at it, then say "wait, why do cops need a 'military grade' mine/ambush protected vehicle? are they fighting a fucking war?"
and, to be honest, I know it's something that happened more out of convenience, like Starlight said - they get 'em super cheap - but it still [i]feels[/i] kinda fucky to me. I know it's about as irrational as going off about "military grade bushmaster rifles!!" (and trust me, I like guns so I know how irrational that is) but there ya go.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47946770]Glad there were no police casualties. I hope this doesn't result in further restrictions on armored vehicles, I would like to buy an old tank or APC some day just for fun.[/QUOTE]
They're weirdly cheaper than regular vehicles. There was a website for it on /k/, but I forgot the URL for it.
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;47951892]So can an APC. then again, the problem with MRAPs is mostly one of public opinion - your average joe or jane is gonna look at it, then say "wait, why do cops need a 'military grade' mine/ambush protected vehicle? are they fighting a fucking war?"
and, to be honest, I know it's something that happened more out of convenience, like Starlight said - they get 'em super cheap - but it still [i]feels[/i] kinda fucky to me. I know it's about as irrational as going off about "military grade bushmaster rifles!!" (and trust me, I like guns so I know how irrational that is) but there ya go.[/QUOTE]
Problem with the average joe is that their opinions get swayed easily. We can't expect the news to help much either. Public Opinion has been shown time and time again to be swayed by emotion brought on not by fact, but by fear. That needs to be kept in mind, but at the same time, shouldn't be the only driving force on the acquisition of vehicles, weapons, and items. These acquisitions don't bother me. What bothers me is the lies and falsehoods being perpetrated by the media and others which hurt the ability of the police to acquire needed items.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47951748]Even MRAPs aren't a problem. They're unarmed, basically just SWAT vans but the PD's get them crazy cheap.[/QUOTE]
MRAP's serve the same function as a SWAT van with the added bonus of also being explosion resistant. Not that SWAT deals with bombs very often, but it's basically a free bonus with the vehicle.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;47952083]They're weirdly cheaper than regular vehicles. There was a website for it on /k/, but I forgot the URL for it.[/QUOTE]
Because with combat operations winding down all over the Middle East, the US Govt is retiring large numbers of them that they no longer need. A large number of these are being donated or sold to law enforcement.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;47952083]They're weirdly cheaper than regular vehicles. There was a website for it on /k/, but I forgot the URL for it.[/QUOTE]
It's mostly because the people selling them usually don't actually have to pay much for them, when the army retires something they sell it or scrap it, so they end up being sold for considerably less than the actual cost of production because the only alternative is a total loss. And in the case of law enforcement they often get them for completely free. Yeah an MRAP in a police context won't do much that a bearcat can't, but the MRAP's already been paid for so it makes more sense to use it. Police love milsurp hardware not because it's necessarily superior to stuff they can buy elsewhere, but because it's dirt cheap.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47950071]Or banning hollow-point bullets, which police use for their considerable stopping power, but are actually banned in warfare for the same reason, overkill flesh damage.
I'd be against that though personally, stopping power is very important for a police officer's side arm.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;47951689]don't forget that overpenetration is a very serious issue also
how many times do you think a cop is gonna have to shoot through a car door or a wall vs. the times where they might potentially go through something and nail an innocent behind it?[/QUOTE]
You do realize that hollow points are designed to spread out the force of the impact when they hit a target by basically disintegrating, correct? Police often use hollow points because they actually reduce over penetration, since the round tends to stay inside the person hit, or if it comes out at all very reduced in terms of lethality. They also have a harder time going through walls and such, since they break apart on impact.
Also, police don't just cruise around in MRAP on a daily basis or just go out joy riding in them.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;47957730]You do realize that hollow points are designed to spread out the force of the impact when they hit a target by basically disintegrating, correct? Police often use hollow points because they actually reduce over penetration, since the round tends to stay inside the person hit, or if it comes out at all very reduced in terms of lethality. They also have a harder time going through walls and such, since they break apart on impact.[/QUOTE]
They also do significantly more flesh damage for the same reason.
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