• Valve pulls Hatred from Greenlight due to disagreeing with the subject matter of the game.
    576 replies, posted
You know I usually like gory games but this one didn't sit well with me. If other people want to play it let them though I guess.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46720157]Please name several games on steam in which their sole purpose is to simulate mass killing[/QUOTE] Not exactly sole purpose, but in [Prototype] (in the second game as well) you can go around slaughtering innocent civilians (very violently) with hardly any consequence. The Military and Blackwatch will notice, but past a certain point in the game they are hardly a threat(outside of certain missions & on the easier difficulties especially).
From my perspective, all I really see with Hatred is an arcade-style shooter. That's really why I'm interested with it, as I've always been a fan of arcade-style shooters, and I'm curious to see how well the game will actually turn out if it does get released somewhere. The targets you shoot are certainly controversial, but when I look at very old titles that just had you shooting things with little, to no explanation or reason, I don't see why this suddenly has to be any different and require some sort of meaning behind it. I really don't like this mentality that there [I]has[/I] to be a reason for everything in a video game, down to the finest details, especially in terms of violence. In a way, as 'edgy' as people are calling the developers, I think they are right in some ways. They are breaking trends, because all the detractors are saying "You can't make a game this way, it has to be done this way!", and here they are trying to say "Yes we can, and will".
[QUOTE=Yogkog;46720009]Postal 1 is definitely not a parody. In some aspects I'd even consider it edgier than Hatred, with some of the quotes during the loading screen inbetween levels[/QUOTE] I don't think you get what "edgy" means. Edgy is trying to be what Postal accomplishes, but comes across more like the Rob Zombie Halloween films, yet what isn't edgy is what is actually kind of disturbing and scary, which is exactly how Postal comes across as.
[QUOTE=ASIC;46723497][B]Not exactly sole purpose[/B], but in [Prototype] (in the second game as well) you can go around slaughtering innocent civilians (very violently) with hardly any consequence. The Military and Blackwatch will notice, but past a certain point in the game they are hardly a threat(outside of certain missions & on the easier difficulties especially).[/QUOTE] Actually come to think of it, even in the storyline missions you will end up slaughtering innocent civilians as almost all NPCs in the game(I think the supersoldiers were an exception) can be consumed(not literally) to heal you and I think the civilians tend to be abundant.
This is on par with target australia removing GTA V. I don't like Hatred's gameplay so I won't buy it but you don't see me campaigning for its removal or censorship.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;46723186]Hotline Miami has you, for the most part, kill criminals. Same with Manhunt. Left 4 Dead has zombies. MW2 had you undercover in a Russian terrorist's organization. The goals of Left 4 Dead and MW2 were not to commit mass murder. The killing is Hotline Miami and Manhunt and be somewhat justified, for the most part. The only game I can really think of that simulates mass murder (besides this, of course), is the first Postal, and even then the Postal Dude had schizophrenia, and you find out in the sequel that the town was really a shithole full of awful people.[/QUOTE] The thing is, why does this have to matter? At all? Like, I don't fucking understand the "b-but (x) game doesn't portray murder in a positive light!!" argument at all. It has no weight, no value. Why does a game have to be the thing to tell you that murder is bad and you shouldn't do it? Why must it hold your hand to tell you the emotions you're supposed to be feeling? I feel like Hatred is worth a try. Does that mean that, because the game didn't explicitly tell me that the main character is a mental fuck, I automatically assume that he is a good guy doing good things? Do you realize how retarded such implications are? You, me, everyone who watched that trailer knows that Hatred's MC is a fucked up psychopath doing unspeakable fucked up shit... So what? Because there's no silly satire or political/societal commentary or a point it's trying to make, that makes the game unacceptable? Do you guys realize how nonsensical you sound when you defend Postal 1 on the basis that "I-It's okay! You're just doing it because the main character has schizophrenia!" as if Hatred's MC isn't also completely fucked up in the head, just because it's not explicitly stated, just extremely fucking obvious? Because Hatred has metal music rather than ambient noise or a disturbing soundtrack, that means that it's trying to send the message that mass killing is good, the MC is the sanest guy on the planet and you should go out and kill random innocents too? [B]Even if the game tried to paint the MC and his actions in a positive light, what does that matter?[/B] Do we not have a shitload of movies that are just gore for the sake of gore? Blood, guts and murder just because? Why can't a game have the freedom to do the same, murder for the same of murder, without having to sprinkle it with justifications, "it's satire" excuses or signs plastered everywhere saying "THIS IS BAD PLS DON'T KILL PEOPLE IRL THX"? It's important that games do achieve the same level of freedom as movies in that regard. By saying that a game should state or imply somewhere, whether by text or visual/audio/contextual clues, that whatever fucked up shit the character is doing is bad, you are saying that mentally sane people who play the game do not already know that it is bad and it should be hinted at them. You are saying that certain games actually [I]can[/I] have an impact on the minds and behaviours of sane people who have the age to play violent video games. You are saying that such people cannot already tell right from wrong and must be reminded of what's right and wrong, like a fucking 5 year old kid. That's a very dangerous path. That's almost right down at Jack Thompson levels. If you agree that someone who has the maturity and sanity to play a game like GTA can play it all they want then you must also agree that that same someone also doesn't need a game to tell right from wrong, they already know all this and will know that the actions depicted in Hatred are not morally good by any stretch of the imagination. If they do not know such a thing, they do not have the maturity nor sanity to play either.
[QUOTE=ASIC;46723921]Actually come to think of it, even in the storyline missions you will end up slaughtering innocent civilians as almost all NPCs in the game(I think the supersoldiers were an exception) can be consumed(not literally) to heal you and I think the civilians tend to be abundant.[/QUOTE]If I recall correctly, there's an achievement in at least the first game for not consuming more than ten civilians. As in, you can [i]murder[/i] as many civilians you want and [i]eat[/i] as many enforcement officers you want, but have to resist specifically hunting down and devouring more than ten defenseless people on a playthrough. It's still pretty rare to get, because civilians are essentially walking healthpacks/disguise kits and every time you boot up a savefile you spawn undisguised and slightly injured on a busy streetcorner.
Postal's event log must be spammed with mentionings by now.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46722444]No it's literally like Nazi Germany's censorship and my third amendment rights are being violated That CAD comic on the first page actually does more to explain why the games are different than expose any kind of hypocrisy.[/QUOTE] You are literally using literally wrong.
Well that is stupid, all shooting games can be deconstructed into mass murder simulators. Even blatantly YAYMURICA stuff like ArmA 2, has anyone other than me done war crimes in that game? Like going into editor and filling a town with civilians then just shelling that place into oblivion, or that mod that allows you to capture POWs and stuff? I used that to capture my enemies then line them up at a wall and do a firing squad execution of them(sadly the mod didnt allow you to give them a cigarette before shooting, extra cruelty!) Like, look up the Video game cruelty potential page on TV tropes and you can find loads of games that are/allow to be just as fucked up as Hatred will be.
I think my big issue with this is as follows. I don't necessarily even care about the game. What I care about is the hypocrisy. Valve decided to do the Greenlight thing to let the community decide. Hatred was going to be greenlit. Valve freaked out and yanked it. Now, Valve has every right to yank something. But the important thing is the reason. What did the trailer show? Panicking people being murdered? That is nothing. The premise of this game is weak as shit. It's boring. I see the potential for fun, but the actual subject matter is tame compared to many things I've played. I've played games where you eat people, steal their memories, and pretend to be them. I've played games where you kill random passing civilians by the truck ton, and nobody gives a damn. They're just there to be crushed and killed and maimed in the process of whatever else you're doing. And these games are all on Steam. There are games where you rape, humiliate, bludgeon, burn, beat, maim, disfigure, and dehumanize people on Steam. If the reason for it being banned was because the game was about raping babies and purposefully purging minorities, I could potentially understand it. If it was a game about stalking women and raping them in an alleyway or a parking garage, I could understand it. But the justification for Valve pulling it is based on the trailer. A few people get shot in the trailer in a way that bounces off of real world tragedy. So by nature of it being a reality call, it's suddenly more horrible than everything else. I honestly felt horrible watching the trailer, but guess what. That's sort of the point I see in the game's existence. When you put the focus on the random civs that would otherwise get fucking butchered while you fight the giant robots or the alien menace or the rival gang, it becomes real. And impactful. Valve has made BILLIONS off of games where people are getting butchered, but suddenly now they decide to take a moral stand. That is my issue.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46723943]This is on par with target australia removing GTA V. I don't like Hatred's gameplay so I won't buy it but you don't see me campaigning for its removal or censorship.[/QUOTE] Atleast Target bothered with a public statement. I guess the 13,000 people who voted on Greenlight within 2 hours aren't important enough to warrant even a basic response.
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;46723366]You know I usually like gory games but this one didn't sit well with me. If other people want to play it let them though I guess.[/QUOTE] This game isn't even gory. Just bit of blood and people dying.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;46724020]The thing is, why does this have to matter? At all? Like, I don't fucking understand the "b-but (x) game doesn't portray murder in a positive light!!" argument at all. It has no weight, no value. Why does a game have to be the thing to tell you that murder is bad and you shouldn't do it? Why must it hold your hand to tell you the emotions you're supposed to be feeling? I feel like Hatred is worth a try. Does that mean that, because the game didn't explicitly tell me that the main character is a mental fuck, I automatically assume that he is a good guy doing good things? Do you realize how retarded such implications are? You, me, everyone who watched that trailer knows that Hatred's MC is a fucked up psychopath doing unspeakable fucked up shit... So what? Because there's no silly satire or political/societal commentary or a point it's trying to make, that makes the game unacceptable? Do you guys realize how nonsensical you sound when you defend Postal 1 on the basis that "I-It's okay! You're just doing it because the main character has schizophrenia!" as if Hatred's MC isn't also completely fucked up in the head, just because it's not explicitly stated, just extremely fucking obvious? Because Hatred has metal music rather than ambient noise or a disturbing soundtrack, that means that it's trying to send the message that mass killing is good, the MC is the sanest guy on the planet and you should go out and kill random innocents too? [B]Even if the game tried to paint the MC and his actions in a positive light, what does that matter?[/B] Do we not have a shitload of movies that are just gore for the sake of gore? Blood, guts and murder just because? Why can't a game have the freedom to do the same, murder for the same of murder, without having to sprinkle it with justifications, "it's satire" excuses or signs plastered everywhere saying "THIS IS BAD PLS DON'T KILL PEOPLE IRL THX"? It's important that games do achieve the same level of freedom as movies in that regard. By saying that a game should state or imply somewhere, whether by text or visual/audio/contextual clues, that whatever fucked up shit the character is doing is bad, you are saying that mentally sane people who play the game do not already know that it is bad and it should be hinted at them. You are saying that certain games actually [I]can[/I] have an impact on the minds and behaviours of sane people who have the age to play violent video games. You are saying that such people cannot already tell right from wrong and must be reminded of what's right and wrong, like a fucking 5 year old kid. That's a very dangerous path. That's almost right down at Jack Thompson levels. If you agree that someone who has the maturity and sanity to play a game like GTA can play it all they want then you must also agree that that same someone also doesn't need a game to tell right from wrong, they already know all this and will know that the actions depicted in Hatred are not morally good by any stretch of the imagination. If they do not know such a thing, they do not have the maturity nor sanity to play either.[/QUOTE] the world needs more people who think like you do.
I'm still going to buy it!
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;46724020] *wall of text* [/QUOTE] I just wanted to add a note to all of this. People say Postal 2 isn't a serious game like "Hatred" is. Well, IMO Hatred isn't serious. I honestly believe the Devs created this game and character not because they're "getting their horrific fantasies out". I think they did it for a lot of other reasons. The character is so ridiculous and that is the point. That's the joke, that's the parody. He's a parody of an edgy basement dweller who never grew up and wants to take his anger out on other people. The game is really being made for fun and for attention due to how "Shocking" it is. So pretty much Valve blocking this game is absurd.
(this is somewhat out of context because there's no other places to put this but i thought it'd just be easily overlooked if i edited my last post to put this there) as far as games go, it's not the fucking developer's responsibility to water it down just so it's appropriate for everybody. if parents are concerned about their kids playing it, it isn't that hard to stop them. otherwise, if you're concerned about people who don't live with their parents anymore, if they wanted to go out and gun someone down, they'd go gun someone down instead of playing a video game simulating it. and for people who say the game disgusts them or whatever the solution is very simple, and that solution is [B]not to play the damn game[/B].
At least I still have my picket fence painting simulator 2014.
[QUOTE=xamllew;46724458]At least I still have my picket fence painting simulator 2014.[/QUOTE] We still have Dead Rising 2: Off The Record where you can kill a zombie by shoving an electrified dildo up its ass until it dies.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46722495]Ya'll aren't even taking thirty seconds to skim the thread before replying. Valve choosing not to carry a game is not censorship. Valve choosing not to carry a game because it's violent but having no problem with carrying all sorts of scams, broken games, weirdass DeviantArt fetish fuel, and other extremely violent games is hypocritical. Valve choosing to ban this one when there are already worse offenders on Steam shows that they're not taking an ethical stance, they're kowtowing to outrage. Having the perfectly reasonable right not to carry a game that they find offensive does not make them immune to the perfectly reasonable right to criticize them for being inconsistent in their reasoning.[/QUOTE] You quoted two very obviously sarcastic posts. When I referenced the "third amendment" in regards to freedom of speech did that really not act as a clue? The third amendment has something to do with quartering soldiers in your home or some shit
I went to the forums once. Never again. [QUOTE][B]Can we have any of the following in the game? Misanthropic master race reporting in btw.[/B] 1. Abductions. I want to be able to tie up or duct-tape up people after beating them, then put them in a van or just drag them off, and take them to a new location. 2. Torture. I want to be able to torture others in the game. It wouldn't be the first time torture has appeared in a game. 3. Please can we have animals and children? I know the FAQ says no ... at least maybe make it so we the players can add it in through mods? Maybe add some birds and cats and other stuff in the game that aren't killable but none-the-less are there and make the world feel more alive? One of the things I hated about Grand Theft Auto is it never had animals or children in it and the world felt very dead to me as a result. At least add some crows flying around and raccoons going through garbage and so on. 4. Cannibalism. I want to be able to eat others in the game and cut them up and stuff. Stuff like that already shows up in zombies games and other games btw. 5. Can we have special events where funny things happen in the game? Like a zombie virus outbreak, or everyone turns into clowns, or you shoot a black character and he drops skittles and ice tea? 6. Character customization please!!! I want to be able to make my own unique character. I also want to try to remake Elliot Rodger, Anders Behring Breivik, Varg Vikernes, and some of my other personal heroes in this game. 7. Will we be able to destroy buildings? Can we set fire to and demolish churches, mosques, synagogues, fastfood stores, retail outlets, etc.? 8. Can you please have special gatherings of people in the game? Like furry conventions, holiday stuff, my little pony fan gatherings, neo-nazi gathering, SJW gathering, etc. all in the game and we can go into those places then and shoot them all up? (I'd personally not want to shoot any fellow National Socialists myself but whatever, we need to give players options). 9. Can we take hostages in this game and create hostage situations? That would be fun. 10. That grey-filter... can we have an option to turn it off please? Have it as the default setting but also make it so we can turn it off. I want to be able to see it all in full vividness. The grey-filter is extremely depressing. 11. Is there any melee in this game? Can we slap people, push them around, kick them, etc.? Can we also hug and kiss them? I want to be able to randomly go up to someone in the game and hug them, then shoot them, that would be super edgy. 12. Can we have black magick in this game? I'm an occultist and somewhat of a follower of the Left Hand Path and familiar with every form of Satanism as well as other edgy magical paradigms like Hoodoo. Although most magick and indeed true and proper magick isn't really sinister unless you use it for that purpose. I want to be able to draw pentagrams, do rituals, and sacrifice people in this game. If there is nothing like that, that will be sad, because a game should have lots of things to do and lots of different ways to express yourself and interact with the world. I hope there's some references to Hindu gods in this game too. 13. Will there be fat people in this game? Will we be able to kill people who seem to fit into various different subcultures in this game? 14. Can I wear a fedora in this game? That would be hilarious if I could. Please make it part of the game to be able to wear hats of various sorts in it! 15. Can we use doors? Lock them, close them, open them? ...or do we just run through them? Can we also grab objects in the environment and use it? I want lots of interaction with the environment! 16. Can we have drug-use in this game? I personally do not approve of or want to use drugs in actual life but think it would a good thing to have in this game if you can get your character drunk, high, or light up a cigarette and start smoking, and so on. 17. Can we have rape and sexual interactions in this game? Once again not something I'm into as I'm strongly against hedonism but it should be part of the game. 18. Can we make friends with people in this game? Maybe give them stockholm syndrome? Team up with other NPCs to kill everyone and violate all the norms of morality? 19. Will we be able to do good actions as well as bad ones? I want to be able to mix things up. Imagine if in the game you could be very nice on the surface and do jobs in it and interact in nice ways with others in the game world but you secretly abduct and kill people. There should be many different ways to play the game, many of them sinister and fucked up. If you don't cover all the different ways to do this you won't be doing a very good job at capturing all the different ways that people can express their hatred for everything. 20. Can we please have some kind of character profile where you can fill out a few things that change how others in the gameworld interact with you? e.g gender, virginity status, religious beliefs, political beliefs? I could fill out something like "Male, Virgin, Esoteric Hitlerist, National Socialist" or "Female, Non-virgin, Christian, Feminist". Imagine all the intense butthurt that could cause in multiplayer when a little pop-up shows up when moving the mouse over another character in the game and pressing a key to make this little profile thing show up. You could then find out what other people have their characters set to and create all sorts of awesome scenarios where you kill people you've always wanted to kill in real life but you do it in the game! A healthy outlet for one's aggression... 21. Can we name our character? 22. Is it true you guys are Polish Neo-Nazis? If so I hope to buy the game just for that reason alone! We must have a Fourth Reich! 23. Can we sit in chairs and on benches and lay in beds in the game? That would be fun. Also make it so we can use the washroom in the game by using urinals or sitting on toilets and flushing them. Just like in The Sims. Would be fun also to sit in a chair in some store and wait for people come in and blast them with your guns while still sitting there.[/QUOTE] Some thread titles: [QUOTE]Hipsters[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Can we get a level where we kill Mike Brown protesters?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]There is not enough women being killed in these trailers![/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Exactly How Innocent Are "Innocents"?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Please add furries, bronies, and Anita as civlian targets[/QUOTE] [QUOTE][I](multiple threads about killing children)[/I][/QUOTE] See, this is what I meant Mr. Zombie
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;46720910]Hilarious, but if you watch the Hatred trailer you get a hate-filled speech and then a fast-paced montage of action, slaughter, metal music and executions. Do you expect the game to be about something else?[/QUOTE] Well, do you remember Metal Gear Solid 2? :v:
this games pretty bad.
[QUOTE=Talvy;46724564]I went to the forums once. Never again. Some thread titles: See, this is what I meant Mr. Zombie[/QUOTE] The Steam forums do not represent everyone who likes this game/wants to buy it, and you're an idiot for thinking so.
[QUOTE=bisousbisous;46724603]The Steam forums do not represent everyone who likes this game/wants to buy it, and you're an idiot for thinking so.[/QUOTE] I... what? I wasn't even- my brain is full of fuck
Hatred is a horrible game and should not be on steam. I'm glad they took it down brb just gonna play me some postal
Either Valve curates their store and gets rid of all the bad games on Steam (like Bad Rats, Mountain simulator, rock simulator, grass simulator, CoD Ghosts) or they don't and only remove things like Earth: Year 2066. Which one is it, Valve?
Hatred: Protagonist is clearly the villain and is there is no possible way outside of being an edgy 12 year old that you could empathise with him or think his actions are justified in some way. Postal 2: Murder is treated as light hearted and fun and the protagonist is silly and likeable in a goofy sort of way and you can set people on fire and piss on them to extinguish them to extend their lives long enough so that you can bash their heads in with a shovel. But one of these games doesn't belong on Steam, can you guess which one?
[QUOTE=Talvy;46724564]I went to the forums once. Never again. Some thread titles: See, this is what I meant Mr. Zombie[/QUOTE] Wow, that's almost as creepy as the Bioware Social Network
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