Valve pulls Hatred from Greenlight due to disagreeing with the subject matter of the game.
576 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Riutet;46724965]But one of these games doesn't belong on Steam, can you guess which one?[/QUOTE]
Okay but the comparison was to Postal 1, not 2.
Oh and I actually kinda want to see exactly how many people this actually appeals to, y'know? Just to see exactly how many people actually unironically want a game where it's essentially the rampage mode from GTA 3, but for the whole game and more messed up with the executions and such. Kinda like a "social experiment" all in all, while I don't agree with this subject matter at all, I WANT to see the amount of people this shit attracts. Or it could go the way of Left 4 Dead 2 getting boycotted and a bunch of people just buy the game anyways because, "Hey, look new game to by that was talked about a lot, am I cool yet?"
TL;DR: Imagine all the potential lives that could be saved for having this game as an "Outlet" of sorts for these types? You dig? Also, seeing how many people this type of game appeals to could be an interesting statistic to track.
This post was too long, I need to go to bed.
I would upload a pic but school computers.
[QUOTE][B]I hate life and all that lives on this earth.[/B]
[I]Post by [B]Gunman4Hire[/B] > 08 Nov 2014, 07:42[/I]
Scum, grimy pissy scum. You drones are full of shit. Conforming to whatever you find most comfortable at the time. The time has come for people like us to speak our minds. To show the world that we exist. I hate everyone, inlcuding my parents who think they can ground me on a reglar basis because I listen to BAD MUSIC. WAH WAH WAH. GO DIE MOM! OH AND DAD YOU CAN DIE TOO! Actually. Everyone can die. You are puke! I can't wait to kill my parents and all my friends with some epic mods! :x Please make mod support so I can show my parents whos boss! :lol:
Currently I'm listening to : Metallica - Enter Sandman :evil:
Death will come to all! True hatred begins with me![/QUOTE]
I'm wondering which ones are trolls posting on the site and which ones are authentic.
[QUOTE=Jordax;46721948]It is hypocritical because Steam's customer base actually wants the game, and votes massively for it on Greenlight only for Valve to step in and say: 'Nuh uh, you cannot have that because we said so!'.
Meanwhile, games which are oblivious pre-alphas who are getting never finished or shoddily made fetish games get through Greenlight with ridiculous price tags and that is somehow fine and dandy with Steam.[/QUOTE]
So, just because shit got inside, you should let the rest get in aswell?
So much for Greenlight being controlled in any way then I guess...
This game is getting all this attention and getting all this support because of the drama its making lol.
Gender Bender is bad on one level, being extremely odd and badly put together, Air Control is bad on another level, being incredibly bad, and Hatred is bad on another level, because its offensive for the reason of being offensive and edgy.
Seriously, games like cod, who get a truckload of flack for not being innovative or for something else, and Hatred doesnt because...? The game seems more barebones in terms of story and gameplay than cod fucking 4, but despite that, its getting support. Its fucking obvious its a case of "David vs Golias" and Streisand effect. The only thing it should get it through is the fact that it SEEMS like it actually works right as a gamr, but then again, its a trailer.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;46724997]Okay but the comparison was to Postal 1, not 2.[/QUOTE]
If you read my post, you'll see that the comparison was actually Postal 2 to Hatred, not at all related to whatever argument you have been having in the past 10 or so pages.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Matlas;46725011]Oh and I actually kinda want to see exactly how many people this actually appeals to, y'know? Just to see exactly how many people actually unironically want a game where it's essentially the rampage mode from GTA 3, but for the whole game and more messed up with the executions and such. Kinda like a "social experiment" all in all, while I don't agree with this subject matter at all, I WANT to see the amount of people this shit attracts. Or it could go the way of Left 4 Dead 2 getting boycotted and a bunch of people just buy the game anyways because, "Hey, look new game to by that was talked about a lot, am I cool yet?"
TL;DR: Imagine all the potential lives that could be saved for having this game as an "Outlet" of sorts for these types? You dig? Also, seeing how many people this type of game appeals to could be an interesting statistic to track.
This post was too long, I need to go to bed.[/QUOTE]
Looking past the edgelord trailer, it actually looks like a cool little 3D isometric shooter, marred only by what looks like annoying scripted execution sequences and a black and white filter that seems to hurt the game's aesthetic than help it.
Only real problem I can see it having is that the objectives don't seem very constructive, seems like your standard Kill X amount of Y and then book it to the end of the level, if it's like that then it'd probably get old real quick, if it plays a bit more like a more unscripted isometric Max Payne, it'd be a pretty legit game.
[QUOTE=Riutet;46725077]If you read my post, you'll see that the comparison was actually Postal 2 to Hatred, not at all related to whatever argument you have been having in the past 10 or so pages.[/QUOTE]
I read your post, and it's irrelevant.
Like what was the point in saying a non-serious parody belongs on Steam more? Absolutely no one disagrees with that. People drew comparisons to Postal for having similar content, not Postal 2 which is completely different.
To be honest the trailer for Hatred alone was really disturbing shit. I can understand this move from multiple perspectives. I mean, even most critics at least recognise that GTA isn't about mass-murdering civilians, whereas that seems to be what little gameplay is actually on offer in Hatred. Hatred might be the only game where all the complaints about being able to mass-murder civilians could actually be valid.
Call me crazy, but given that it seems tailor-made for psychopaths and just seems outright terrifying, but I think it's a safe business and ethical move to replace what is literally a pedestrian murder simulator.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;46725104]I read your post, and it's irrelevant.
Like what was the point in saying a non-serious parody belongs on Steam more? Absolutely no one disagrees with that. People drew comparisons to Postal for having similar content, not Postal 2 which is completely different.[/QUOTE]
I think his point was that Postal 2 portrays inhumane crimes in a light-hearted way, which can arguably be more dangerous than a game which bluntly depicts murder we can't legitimize.
That's if you believe games can actually influence our moral compass anyway, which is the main argument we see in this thread supporting the removal of the game.
I thought the Jack Thompson era was behind us, which is why I don't really understand the whole controversy around Hatred.
They pulled it (in my opinion) to avoid the wrath of the league if soccer moms.
If Steam's going to have standards, I'll be on board and applaud them the whole way through. Whichever they choose, they need to be consistent and transparent, because at this point I'm not sure what's grounds for being banned from the store. What are the standards for quality and taste?
I don't think Hatred can be fairly compared to Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty, though. In Call of Duty, you often play as a soldier, which a respected member of society fighting for something arguably honorable and totally standard. On top of that, multiplayer isn't focused on murder but the game mechanics and strategy.
In Grand Theft Auto, which I haven't played, I'm understanding that there is supposed to be a full-fledged story with an open world meant for exploration and screwing around. It can be quite distasteful at times, but you're playing within the narrative and you have the option to make different decisions. There's a level of immersion you can get with the game as you would with a movie, except with interaction.
I'll even defend Hotline Miami in this case - that's a game with a story, unrealistic (and often comedic) graphics, and gameplay mechanics that aren't necessarily immersing you within the rage of a murderer.
In Hatred, it seems your only option is to completely and mercilessly obliterate everyone around you with a storyline that immerses you into mass genocide. That's really it, as far as I can tell. That isn't Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto. (I can't comment on Postal because I haven't played or seen anything from it.)
With that said, am I against Hatred? No. I just don't think it's fair to say that it's just a small stretch of a pre-existing standard of murder in video games.
I do have a question for all of you, as I am pondering it myself: At what point is someone unable to justify their game by saying, "It's just a game"? At what point would we draw the line and reject a game as a society?
I can answer for myself in this instance: I love being disturbed. I love emphasizing that reality isn't pretty. I won't be playing this, though, because I don't want to be the ugliness. I cannot and will not find enjoyment in mass genocide. I'd love to learn about this character, or fight against this character, but I can't play as the character. Would you be able to? Is this something that should be marketed and sold in the same vain as Grand Theft Auto?
[QUOTE=Thlis;46720233]Why is GTA fine but this isn't?
Why is Manhunt fine but this isn't?
Why is Postal fine but this isn't?
If we are going to complain about the execution moves, why is Sleeping Dogs fine but this isn't?
Hell, Modern Warfare 2 literally has a level simulating a mass killing.[/QUOTE]
This is extremely flawed. In Modern Warfare 2, the ones committing the mass-killing were established as the bad guys. Yes, you were there, but only undercover. Many versions actually made it so you lost if YOU actively shot a civilian. In GTA, there is much more to the game than going around shooting innocent people, I'm sure you know about that so I won't insult your intelligence by explaining. However, the basis of Hatred is LITERALLY to slaughter innocent pedestrians as they scream for mercy. Sorry, but I seriously disagree with that on ethical bounds and am quite disgusted it's being made and will be distributed. Furthermore, in Manhunt, they're mob members actively shooting you. I think Postal is tasteless, but that staying up should not mean Hatred should too
The lines may get a bit blurred, but they're still clearly readable: There's a difference between shooting simulated people actively trying to kill you and shooting helpless simulated pedestrians as they literally beg for their lives. Idk man, I just think selling Hatred would be publisher suicide, it's a smart move to refuse to distribute something as tasteless as that. And yeah, Gender Bender exists, but for gods sakes, that's appetoo faling to a niche audience, Hatred is just completely tasteless, too damn edgy and just plain disturbing. Huge, huge difference.
Curse Gender-Bender or Rock Simulator all you want. But at the end of the day, if you're a big company, you're going to get worse PR from a literal pedestrian murder spree simulator than a rock simulator.
They have said they're taking measures against crap on Greenlight anyway, so that's a moot point.
[QUOTE=_Axel;46725163]I think his point was that Postal 2 portrays inhumane crimes in a light-hearted way, which can arguably be more dangerous than a game which bluntly depicts murder we can't legitimize.
That's if you believe games can actually influence our moral compass anyway, which is the main argument we see in this thread supporting the removal of the game.
I thought the Jack Thompson era was behind us, which is why I don't really understand the whole controversy around Hatred.[/QUOTE]
I'm not necessarily for or against Hatred - I'm only answering for how I feel about the game myself and asking a question that I can't answer.
With the past decade, Doom and Grand Theft Auto have been in the spotlight. This is arguably kicking it up a notch.
I don't think that playing this game will destroy a person's moral compass, but this goes much farther than what Doom and Grand Theft Auto have ever done.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thlis;46720233]Hell, Modern Warfare 2 literally has a level simulating a mass killing.[/QUOTE]
I believe this was to make a point and make the player feel uncomfortable. It's not glorifying the killing like this game is.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;46725185]I'm not necessarily for or against Hatred - I'm only answering for how I feel about the game myself and asking a question that I can't answer.
With the past decade, Doom and Grand Theft Auto have been in the spotlight. This is arguably kicking it up a notch.
I don't think that playing this game will destroy a person's moral compass, but this goes much farther than what Doom and Grand Theft Auto have ever done.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
I believe this was to make a point and make the player feel uncomfortable. It's not glorifying the killing like this game is.[/QUOTE]
No it existed just to get press through controversy, also the phrase "glorifying x" is pretty stupid as it implies that it makes people go "Wow, x is COOL, i should go do x"
What I meant was the purpose of that scene wasn't the same purpose as this game. You're doing a soldier's work doing as you are told with narrative value in that scene, versus this game where you're killing because you hate all of humanity and want to kill as many innocent, desperate civilians as possible.
*snip, because that was too big for too little of a joke*
Anyway, I feel sort of bad for the devs. Been following Twitter and there are a bunch of people calling them Neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Not sure how valid any of that is, but it reminded me of the scene from Death to Smoochy. You can start a rumor or tell people pretty much anything and once they feel self-righteous enough they'll treat it as word of god.
steam can sell what they want
I just find this whole thing disappointing. Yes, this game will sell to the psychopaths and it may fuel them, it is unfortunate and unavoidable so long as this ever actually goes live.
However, I myself am an ordinary person who believes in pacifism and I'm a very nice person to boot. That being said, I'd have bought this game and probably had a great time with it through it's gameplay and my analysis of the narrative behind it. I'm not borderline, nor do I wish to go and kill someone before, during, or after I experience this game.
I, as a grown consumer, am capable of making my own decisions regarding what media I choose to indulge in and at the end of the day, should not be limited over a studio's fear of backlash. I'm not going to argue over what is moral or immoral about this game because it's a bullshit argument to have in this forum and really...it doesn't matter. If you want to play something, you shouldn't be blocked from doing so.
To have this hit #7 in only a few hours shows that it was not only greenlit and sold already, but it had the potential to skyrocket even higher on the list and whether or not all of those people intended to buy it, and their reasons for doing so/not doing so, it shows the community does want to have the option of this game available for themselves or for fellow gamers.
[QUOTE=Skyguy113;46725266]steam can sell what they want[/QUOTE]
Yeah, i don't take that away from them, but just blocking things whilst still allowing equally bad things is just stupid.
[QUOTE=Skyguy113;46725266]steam can sell what they want[/QUOTE]
Actually Steam has recently opened the doors to all publishers so anyone can call themselves a publisher and put up anything they want for sale, so it's even more hypocritical of them to take down this one game.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46721037]I respect Valves right as a company, it IS their platform(although, pretty fucking monopolized)
But this is just so fucking stupid, what a horrible and broad reason to pull a fucking game like Hatred.
GTAV is coming out in Jan for PC, that shit is gonna be plastered ALL over the front fucking page and top seller for like months, everyones gonna buy it and Valve is gonna love all the money.
MGS GZ comes out in 3 days on PC, dont wanna spoil it since its close to release but for anyone thats played it and bothered to get tapes and pay attention to shit realize just how fucked up and dark GZ really is.
MGSV is being put on steam, once again from what we have seen it looks like the most brutal MGS(it looks like we are going to actually come in contact with Child Soldiers and possibly kill them)
Manhunt is still on steam. GTA 3, Vice, SE, gay tony, biker gang one, are all on steam.
All of these games are way more "offensive", dark, and brutal than a fucking game with no story thats just about killing no named NPC humans.
Its just fucking hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
where were you when everyone explained why "mass murder" games like GTA, MGS ( are you for real in using this as an example), and manhunt are justified and alright in comparison to hatred?
i mean, we've only done it like... 30 times in every thread about hatred since the trailer came out.
Hatred is a PR Nightmare for whoever ends up hosting that up for sale. I can understand why they pulled it back but it goes against the idea of Greenlight in the case of "Vote what you want steam to sell" kind of thing. They need to be more consistent here with what goes through the system since there are shit that somehow goes through the radar.
Now, I'm very much for people making whatever they want in the industry, it's up to the consumer to consider if that is worth their time and money, if people don't buy it then Hatred simply falls flat on it's arse. Hatred just looks like some sort of Rampage Simulator like in the 3D era of GTA's. Although GTA wasn't created with the sole purpose of rampages, Hatred looks like that's it's sole purpose, unless we're missing something here.
If anything, all this has given the developers of Hatred some more free advertisement.
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;46719928]Well they could take the Postal 2 route and turn it into a sort of parody.
Because that's literally probably the only reason something like this would ever be allowed on Steam.[/QUOTE]
I thought that that was what it was
I remember reading an article in which they essentially said "Games are trying to be too deep- so we made a game closer to it's original roots. It's a murder simulator!".
The main character's name is literally "Notim Portant", IIRC.
I don't understand how anyone could be really angry this game has been pulled. The game is so laughably attention-seeking with all the edgy shit in it, and it's pretty clear this is the reaction the developers wanted. That's not even mentioning that the developers are apparently actual neo-nazis.
And as for the comparison to Postal, I don't really see the problem with Postal. Yeah, it's edgy as fuck, but at least it seems to have some sort of message to it other than "i hate people, fuck you dad!". It's about a fucked up schizophrenic dude who goes postal and starts killing people, and it was released during the time when people "going postal" actually happened. Even if that's not what RWS was going for, and it's probably not, you can at least make the argument that the game isn't just a murder simulator.
There are a whole lot of movies and books that portray things much more horrific than Hatred could ever wish. BUT at the same time Hatred's trailer made a lot of people feel uneasy, which imo, is a huge achievement for games. It was more than run and gun pew pew explosions, it actually made people feel something, be it disgust or uneasiness or just being uncomfortable.
But games are just games, no one takes them seriously because they're for kids.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;46725104]I read your post, and it's irrelevant.
Like what was the point in saying a non-serious parody belongs on Steam more? Absolutely no one disagrees with that. People drew comparisons to Postal for having similar content, not Postal 2 which is completely different.[/QUOTE]
You took away from my post, that I was saying Postal 2 belonged on Steam more? I was saying the exact opposite.
[QUOTE=realtaylers;46725550]I don't understand how anyone could be really angry this game has been pulled. The game is so laughably attention-seeking with all the edgy shit in it, and it's pretty clear this is the reaction the developers wanted. That's not even mentioning that the developers are apparently actual neo-nazis.
And as for the comparison to Postal, I don't really see the problem with Postal. Yeah, it's edgy as fuck, but at least it seems to have some sort of message to it other than "i hate people, fuck you dad!". It's about a fucked up schizophrenic dude who goes postal and starts killing people, and it was released during the time when people "going postal" actually happened. Even if that's not what RWS was going for, and it's probably not, you can at least make the argument that the game isn't just a murder simulator.[/QUOTE]
Posts like this is proof that if you say bad enough shit about your opposition it will never go away. The neo nazi thing was a straight up lie.
[QUOTE=Crimor;46725598]Posts like this is proof that if you say bad enough shit about your opposition it will never go away. The neo nazi thing was a straight up lie.[/QUOTE]
The power of media misinformation
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;46721471]Uhh..
UHHHHH[/QUOTE]
Hey when you're an abuse survivor shit isn't peachy for a long time.
[QUOTE=Talvy;46724564](multiple threads about killing children)[/QUOTE]
God I wish we could just get a TF2 or Loadout like shooter where all the characters are children. Like Lord of the Flies on crack.
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