Valve pulls Hatred from Greenlight due to disagreeing with the subject matter of the game.
576 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Episode;46726967]What is your point? Do you really feel like an Ethnic Cleansing game is equal to a game where you're told to kill random innocent people? One is a game with a message about another race being despicable and the other has no message.[/QUOTE]
Actually, if we follow your logic fully, both games endorse killing innocent people. Heck, if anything the first one allows for less potential victims.
It doesn't matter anyway, because a game that depicts killings does not endorse murder. That's retarded thinking.
[QUOTE=Riutet;46724965]Hatred: Protagonist is clearly the villain and is there is no possible way outside of being an edgy 12 year old that you could empathise with him or think his actions are justified in some way.
Postal 2: Murder is treated as light hearted and fun and the protagonist is silly and likeable in a goofy sort of way and you can set people on fire and piss on them to extinguish them to extend their lives long enough so that you can bash their heads in with a shovel.
But one of these games doesn't belong on Steam, can you guess which one?[/QUOTE]
You forgot postal 1, the serious game about a man going crazy only to end up at an elementary school at the end.
Also your asking a trick question, both of the games belong on steam.
Good.
I want it banned, but not for violence. For edginess.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46727179]Good.
I want it banned, but not for violence. For edginess.[/QUOTE]
How edgy of you
Turns out this might actually be in violation of EU Anti trust laws
[img]http://i.imgur.com/i0WB4w1.png[/img]
I am not going to complain to EU because Valve removed Hatred.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46727179]Good.
I want it banned, but not for violence. For edginess.[/QUOTE]
It's a hazardous product. Valve removed it because they kept accidentally cutting themselves on all it's edges.
On the bright side, this may take the focus away from the misogyny/gamergate debate that has been infecting gaming for a while. The violent video game debate feels free of corruption and dishonesty in comparison.
[QUOTE=Thlis;46727360]Turns out this might actually be in violation of EU Anti trust laws
[img]http://i.imgur.com/i0WB4w1.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Oh my, shit just got interesting
[QUOTE=Simski;46727655]Oh my, shit just got interesting[/QUOTE]
Yeah, which means more inevitable free advertising for this game.
[QUOTE=Simski;46727655]Oh my, shit just got interesting[/QUOTE]
If Valve is serious about keeping 'Hatred' at all cost from Steam then more than likely that kind of complain will result simply in changing reason of Hatred's removal :v:
[QUOTE=Mitchel.;46727744]If Valve is serious about keeping 'Hatred' at all cost from Steam then more than likely that kind of complain will result simply in changing reason of Hatred's removal :v:[/QUOTE]
It would still have to be something that doesn't apply to their other existing titles on steam though
Found a good statement about it that kinda sums up my feelings
"Ill post something similar to what i wrote in another thread, but people are looking to far into this, TB included.
Imagine you are valve and you received Hatred. Hatred is not ESRB rated so you have to look at it and consider, would this game get an AO rating?
This isn't a case of valve being handed a game which is already ESRB rated M and deciding its too violent.
This is a case of them considering, if this game was rated by the ESRB would it be against their own policies?
Naturally they also have to be more strict then ESRB in considering greenlight games
Otherwise people would use it as a way to bypass an AO rating, which they most likely want to avoid.
TB comments early on in the video about hatred not breaking any well defined greenlight rules, but it does, and ill explain.
There are rules about the amount of violence you can have in a greenlight game, and those rules are similar to the rules ESRB rated games adhere too.
If a game is so violent that it would receive an ESRB rating of AO then that is too much violence for steam consider for greenlight.
He then says to explain postal and manhunt being on steam.
EASY, THEY ARE RATED M. Steam does not need to look at any of these games and consider the rating themselves because they are already rated M by the ESRB.
Go get hatred an ESRB rating of M then bring it to valve, do not bring valve a prime AO candidate and expect them to publish it on steam."
[QUOTE=IceyMalone;46727781]Found a good statement about it that kinda sums up my feelings
"Ill post something similar to what i wrote in another thread, but people are looking to far into this, TB included.
Imagine you are valve and you received Hatred. Hatred is not ESRB rated so you have to look at it and consider, would this game get an AO rating?
This isn't a case of valve being handed a game which is already ESRB rated M and deciding its too violent.
This is a case of them considering, if this game was rated by the ESRB would it be against their own policies?
Naturally they also have to be more strict then ESRB in considering greenlight games because otherwise people would use it as a way to bypass an AO rating, which they most likely want to avoid.
TB comments early on in the video about hatred not breaking any well defined greenlight rules, but it does, and ill explain.
There are rules about the amount of violence you can have in a greenlight game, and those rules are similar to the rules ESRB rated games adhere too.
If a game is so violent that it would receive an ESRB rating of AO then that is too much violence for steam consider for greenlight.
He then says to explain postal and manhunt being on steam.
EASY, THEY ARE RATED M. Steam does not need to look at any of these games and consider the rating themselves because they are already rated M by the ESRB.
Go get hatred an ESRB rating of M then bring it to valve, do not bring valve a prime AO candidate and expect them to publish it on steam."[/QUOTE]
In order to get an AO rating you need to include scenes of explicit sex ("strong sexual content" as the ESRB puts it) in your game. There are very few exceptions to this, one of which being Manhunt 2 (which was edited to be less violent by rockstar and published as such) and the other Thrill Kill (which ended up never being released, and it's much more likely than EA just didn't want to publish this game after buying Virgin Interactive).
Hatred by all extent is not an AO candidate. 18, maybe, but AO is out of the question.
[QUOTE=Thlis;46727360]Turns out this might actually be in violation of EU Anti trust laws
[img]http://i.imgur.com/i0WB4w1.png[/img][/QUOTE]
I hope they get a good jab at Valve, they've handled this situation extremely unprofessionally
Let us hope that GOG, Amazon, Desura and everybody else have more spine than Valve.
[QUOTE=DeEz;46727857]I hope they get a good jab at Valve, they've handled this situation extremely unprofessionally[/QUOTE]
How have they been unprofessional? They simply put out a comment saying they wouldn't be hosting it. They shouldn't be forced to sell something they don't want too.
The sense of entitlement in this thread is staggering. A company doesn't want to sell something, boo fucking hoo. Would this whole forum be up-in-arms if Staples decided not to sell Bic pens while still selling Uniballs?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;46727405]I am not going to complain to EU because Valve removed Hatred.[/QUOTE]
It's not about Hatred, it's the principle.
Today it's Hatred, tomorrow it's your favorite game you really want on Steam but nope because double standards.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;46727934]why cant i play artificial academy but i can play sakura spirit?
fuck you valve censoring bastards...[/QUOTE]
That's fucking poor sarcasm, but I'll bite.
Sakura Spirit does not contain any explicit sex. It may be borderline softcore porn, but it still fits within Steam's guidelines because it's not rated AO nor should it be (nudity or borderline nudity does not make for an AO rating).
Artificial Academy on the other hand is an outright porn game, is advertised as such, and is rated as such. You can't sell it on steam because it's not in steam's guidelines that you can sell such games.
None of the content Hatred has showed so far is even remotely close to violating Valve's guidelines. It's literally just a prettier version of Postal with closeup finishers, and Postal's being sold on Steam right now.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;46727958]The sense of entitlement in this thread is staggering. A company doesn't want to sell something, boo fucking hoo. Would this whole forum be up-in-arms if Staples decided not to sell Bic pens while still selling Uniballs?[/QUOTE]
If Staples was the leading business and crushed every other competitor to the point they hold 70% of the market, then yeah, people would be up in arms about it. Especially if Staples asked people if they wanted Bic pens around and then ignored the response.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;46727913]How have they been unprofessional? They simply put out a comment saying they wouldn't be hosting it. They shouldn't be forced to sell something they don't want too.[/QUOTE]
Because they have given absolutely no reason for it's removal. We have no idea what guidelines are supposedly being violated here.
That is not professional, and that coming from the worlds biggest PC game distributor is just completely unacceptable.
[QUOTE=Latex;46728062]Because they have given absolutely no reason for it's removal. We have no idea what kind of guidelines are supposedly being violated here.
That is not professional, and that coming from the worlds biggest PC game distributor is just completely unacceptable.[/QUOTE]
Valve has never updated their PR policies and it's been showing for the past five years. The closest they've ever come to actually showing anything they were working on in any recent memory was with Portal 2, but other than that, they've had countless issues with simply not saying anything to anyone, causing huge shitstorms constantly.
See : Half Life 3, Source 2, Diretide, Hatred
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46727981]If Staples was the leading business and crushed every other competitor to the point they hold 70% of the market, then yeah, people would be up in arms about it. Especially if Staples asked people if they wanted Bic pens around and then ignored the response.[/QUOTE]
I see your point about market share, and I'm glad you responded instead of just rating me dumb. But unfortunately, it's still a shitty point. Market share would make sense for a physical store like Staples where your town might literally not have any alternative stores to buy Bic pens, but Steam is a fucking internet marketplace. If people really want this game, all the developer has to do is make a website and anybody can buy it from there if they want to.
They retain the rights to pull shit from their store that they find morally objectionable, they found it morally objectionable.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46728190]They retain the rights to pull shit from their store that they find morally objectionable, they found it morally objectionable.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't it be nice to know why though?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46728235]Wouldn't it be nice to know why though?[/QUOTE]
Because they found it morally objectionable?
If this game was called Rampage and not Hatred I'm almost certain that nobody would give a shit, least of all Valve.
That title just takes edgy to a whole other level, it signals killing out of spite and I can easily understand why Valve wants nothing to do with it.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46728285]Because they found it morally objectionable?[/QUOTE]
Please refer me to the exact place where Valve expressed this.
[QUOTE=kaskade700;46728327]If this game was called Rampage and not Hatred I'm almost certain that nobody would give a shit, least of all Valve.
That title just takes edgy to a whole other level, it signals killing out of spite and I can easily understand why Valve wants nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE]
Edgy or not, I like that it's a strangely unique concept.
[QUOTE=Simski;46728494]Edgy or not, I like that it's a strangely unique concept.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter if people want it. It might as well be called AllahuAkbhar and be about blowing up your local town square, scoring you by the amount of gibs and blood.
Sure the gameplay might be awesome but noones gonna distribute that shit outside of sketchy flashgame sites. Expecting Valve to allow this kind of game is naive.
(please dont reply with GTA, Postal, Manhunt etc, one can easily argue for the intelectual value of all those series, excep maybe manhunt )
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