• Valve pulls Hatred from Greenlight due to disagreeing with the subject matter of the game.
    576 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jordax;46720337]What happened to 'voting with your wallet' anyway? Why does Valve have to give in to a bunch of political correct types who aren't going to buy the bloody game anyway?[/QUOTE]What indication is there of them giving in to anyone? Thus far, this just seems to be them not wanting to sell something that could misrepresent them as a company, which is ultimately well within the purview of literally every company ever. Going to copy what I added to that first post for the GamerGate thread: There is at this point no indication that Valve was pressured to make this decision, and that its not because of it just being violent or whatever. The context related to games is paramount, and that stripping it out leaves it at just "GTAV lets you kill people/punch prostitutes!" and "Bayonetta is sexualized!" And people are going exactly against that and trying to use those very arguments of "WELL GTAV LETS YOU KILL PEOPLE/PUNCH PROSTITUTES!" and "POSTAL HAS LOTS OF KILLING" and completely stripping all context.
Apparently they do not disagree with countless rip-offs and unity tech demos being approved and sold. (I'm looking at you, Grass simulator)
I don't see why everyone is crying censorship. Valve is a private company that owns a store, and storeowners are well within their rights to not sell something in their store. You can't buy a Hustler in a Target, that doesn't mean that Target is censoring Hustler, they just don't want to sell it. And, to be frank, Hatred is kinda tasteless and is without any sort of substance. It's a game that was made with one of two reasons in mind: either it was made by a bunch of weirdos that just want to murder a bunch of screaming people with no resistance, or it was made by a bunch of geniuses that knew that if they stirred up the news media they could make a tidy profit by making a shitty game and selling it to anti-establishment teenagers that will buy anything so long as it upsets those darn dirty SJWs. Hell, it doesn't even look like fun. Have you ever turned on god mode and just gone killing things in a game? It gets boring after like ten minutes. Hatred as an experience could easily be summed up as Johnny Sixteen Year Old pays fifteen dollars to some fucks in poland or wherever, plays the game for ten minutes, goes "heck yeah! I showed anita!" and then never plays the game again because the game is fucking boring.
I still can't believe they haven't banned Portal and Portal 2, those games could affect our children.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720389]I don't see why everyone is crying censorship. Valve is a private company that owns a store, and storeowners are well within their rights to not sell something in their store. You can't buy a Hustler in a Target, that doesn't mean that Target is censoring Hustler, they just don't want to sell it. And, to be frank, Hatred is kinda tasteless and is without any sort of substance. It's a game that was made with one of two reasons in mind: either it was made by a bunch of weirdos that just want to murder a bunch of screaming people with no resistance, or it was made by a bunch of geniuses that knew that if they stirred up the news media they could make a tidy profit by making a shitty game and selling it to anti-establishment teenagers that will buy anything so long as it upsets those darn dirty SJWs. Hell, it doesn't even look like fun. Have you ever turned on god mode and just gone killing things in a game? It gets boring after like ten minutes. Hatred as an experience could easily be summed up as Johnny Sixteen Year Old pays fifteen dollars to some fucks in poland or wherever, plays the game for ten minutes, goes "heck yeah! I showed anita!" and then never plays the game again because the game is fucking boring.[/QUOTE]The good bits: [quote]I don't see why everyone is crying censorship. Valve is a private company that owns a store, and storeowners are well within their rights to not sell something in their store. You can't buy a Hustler in a Target, that doesn't mean that Target is censoring Hustler, they just don't want to sell it.[/QUOTE] The dumb bits: [quote]Have you ever turned on god mode and just gone killing things in a game? It gets boring after like ten minutes. Hatred as an experience could easily be summed up as Johnny Sixteen Year Old pays fifteen dollars to some fucks in poland or wherever, plays the game for ten minutes, goes "heck yeah! I showed anita!" and then never plays the game again because the game is fucking boring.[/quote]
censorship is censorship no matter whos doing it steam, which is the biggest pc game market, is a very valuable place to have your game at. sometimes it means life or death of your company. valve saying no to having this game on steam means they are effectively censoring the game from the mainstream
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720389]I don't see why everyone is crying censorship. Valve is a private company that owns a store, and storeowners are well within their rights to not sell something in their store. You can't buy a Hustler in a Target, that doesn't mean that Target is censoring Hustler, they just don't want to sell it. [/QUOTE] I agree. I don't think this is censorship on Valve's part at the moment. Consumers ought to voice their concerns to companies, and ideally companies should take these concerns into consideration when making business decisions. If there was a campaign to remove Hatred from greenlight, those people had just as much reason to voice their concerns as the people displeased with the removal. I do think it's shitty when people use negative feedback as a weapon against content they don't like. If you act in bad faith through customer feedback and lie to game the system you devalue everyone's feedback, which is a dick thing to do. I'm not sure if that's what happened here, but it does look like a lot of the people complaining about this haven't been very honest (intellectually or otherwise) in the past, which raises a red flag for me personally. Hopefully valve will say something, and it looks like the devs hold no ill-will towards Valve at the moment.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720389] And, to be frank, Hatred is kinda tasteless and is without any sort of substance. It's a game that was made with one of two reasons in mind: either it was made by a bunch of weirdos that just want to murder a bunch of screaming people with no resistance, or it was made by a bunch of geniuses that knew that if they stirred up the news media they could make a tidy profit by making a shitty game and selling it to anti-establishment teenagers that will buy anything so long as it upsets those darn dirty SJWs. Hell, it doesn't even look like fun. Have you ever turned on god mode and just gone killing things in a game? It gets boring after like ten minutes. Hatred as an experience could easily be summed up as Johnny Sixteen Year Old pays fifteen dollars to some fucks in poland or wherever, plays the game for ten minutes, goes "heck yeah! I showed anita!" and then never plays the game again because the game is fucking boring.[/QUOTE] All of this you are just assuming, which is a very stupid thing to do. The game isn't even out yet, you don't know what the mechanics, story, etc. could be like in the end yet you are so quick to dismiss it. And seriously why did you bring up SJWs? This has absolutely nothing to do with SJWs. at all.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46720071]i just dont like hatred because it's just got no taste. i mean, gtav didn't either, but at least that game has some quality to it and is a little more indepth then "shoot everyone."[/QUOTE] Sounds like you have excellent base for your beliefs. They showed only very little gameplay (scripted executions don't count). You can't tell whether it's good or bad at this point.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720389] Hell, it doesn't even look like fun. Have you ever turned on god mode and just gone killing things in a game? It gets boring after like ten minutes. Hatred as an experience could easily be summed up as Johnny Sixteen Year Old pays fifteen dollars to some fucks in poland or wherever, plays the game for ten minutes, goes "heck yeah! I showed anita!" and then never plays the game again because the game is fucking boring.[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you talking about? You need to survive against people with guns in this game aswell. It's like you haven't even watched the bloody trailer and then you go on to make giant over-generalizations like "THIS GAME ISN'T FUN" or "THE CREATORS ARE A BUNCH OF WEIRDOS WANTING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY".
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46720274]Hatred probably would push some people ("trigger") over the edge and follow through with their shooting plans.[/QUOTE] Well, as I said, that is the problem of the individual, not the content. If an unstable teenage kid gets their hands on a violent game and they take it to heart, that's THEIR mental instability. If a parent allows their unstable teenage kid to get their hands on said violent game, that's THEIR fault as a parent for not keeping a closer eye and, y'know, actually being a parent. If the community doesn't catch on to the kid's instability, that's THEIR failure for not seeing the warning signs and not understanding that mental instability is a real thing. As tragic as such massacres are, part of the tragedy is that if people were more aware and attentive, looking out for eachother and knowing when something's up, they could be prevented. The sooner people accept that it is the person that corrupts themselves depending on their brain, and not the art that spreads some sort of insidious contagious "taint", the sooner we can live in a fresher, freer world where censorship is applied only to that which involved real genuine harm in its creation. The old world is close to outliving its usefulness, and if we can transition smoothly into a time of greater understanding, you can bet your ass that we'll try to make it that way.
[QUOTE=Megadave;46720416]I still can't believe they haven't banned Portal and Portal 2, those games could affect our children.[/QUOTE]Doubtful they give a fuck about "our children". They've never shown an indication of that. This is matter of them directly publishing and selling a game that will represent them in a way they do not want to be represented. Here is an important line: [quote]we would not publish Hatred on Steam.[/quote]Just as a store they would have fair enough ground to not sell it for misrepresenting them. But publishing it goes above and beyond that.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46720432] steam, which is the biggest pc game market, is a very valuable place to have your game at. sometimes it means life or death of your company.[/QUOTE] Frankly, if you dont want your game to be censored, publish that shit yourself. It worked for Minecraft quite well. Dont trust private organizations to make you money.
[QUOTE=ironman17;46720453]Well, as I said, that is the problem of the individual, not the content. If an unstable teenage kid gets their hands on a violent game and they take it to heart, that's THEIR mental instability. If a parent allows their unstable teenage kid to get their hands on said violent game, that's THEIR fault as a parent for not keeping a closer eye and, y'know, actually being a parent. If the community doesn't catch on to the kid's instability, that's THEIR failure for not seeing the warning signs and not understanding that mental instability is a real thing. As tragic as such massacres are, part of the tragedy is that if people were more aware and attentive, looking out for eachother and knowing when something's up, they could be prevented. The sooner people accept that it is the person that corrupts themselves depending on their brain, and not the art that spreads some sort of insidious contagious "taint", the sooner we can live in a fresher, freer world where censorship is applied only to that which involved real genuine harm in its creation. The old world is close to outliving its usefulness, and if we can transition smoothly into a time of greater understanding, you can bet your ass that we'll try to make it that way.[/QUOTE] That'll take a good while, considering games are still easy scapegoats nowadays and will be for a long time to come.
also, greenlight was made for the community to curate what they want on steam, not valve valve is breaking their rules on this but hey valves ok with a [URL=http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/313740/]literal hentai game[/URL] on their service, but shooting people is too far
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46720460]Frankly, if you dont want your game to be censored, publish that shit yourself. It worked for Minecraft quite well. Dont trust private organizations to make you money.[/QUOTE] Absolutely. And these guys don't have to worry about attracting attention that many other self-published developers deal with since they already got it. They could sell copies off of their website and probably make a killing.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46720428]The good bits: The dumb bits:[/QUOTE] You'll have to forgive me for thinking that Hatred is a completely transparent ploy to exploit the "us vs. them" mentality on the whole idiotic SJW thing that's going on right now. When this game's trailer first came out, it was the subject of universal ridicule. Everyone was making fun of it, waving it off as edgy garbage. Nobody cared about it. But now? Valve looked at it and said "no thanks, we don't want this edgy garbage" and then suddenly every redditor dons their fedoras and gets up at arms about "SJW's" and "censorship." This game was made to exploit the issue of the week and everyone is falling for it hardcore. It's preposterous. [QUOTE=Duskin;46720450]What the fuck are you talking about? You need to survive against people with guns in this game aswell. It's like you haven't even watched the bloody trailer and then you go on to make giant over-generalizations like "THIS GAME ISN'T FUN" or "THE CREATORS ARE A BUNCH OF WEIRDOS WANTING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY".[/QUOTE] I did watch the trailer, actually, back when everyone was making fun of it. I distinctly remember about a minute and a half of lovingly animated shots of killing unarmed civilians and maybe a single second of one cop shooting back.
[QUOTE=Medevila;46720476]It wasn't even on Steam it was on Greenlight what other digital distributor would host this game? Steam isn't like a classical brick and mortar store, it is infinitely more easy to get this game on the internet than it would be to get it IRL if stores refused to stock it..[/QUOTE] Yeah. Steam is the epicenter of PC gaming right now. For all of what Valve was going on about relating to Microsoft, they're now no better. They threw away their neutrality.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720389]I don't see why everyone is crying censorship. Valve is a private company that owns a store, and storeowners are well within their rights to not sell something in their store. You can't buy a Hustler in a Target, that doesn't mean that Target is censoring Hustler, they just don't want to sell it. And, to be frank, Hatred is kinda tasteless and is without any sort of substance. It's a game that was made with one of two reasons in mind: either it was made by a bunch of weirdos that just want to murder a bunch of screaming people with no resistance, or it was made by a bunch of geniuses that knew that if they stirred up the news media they could make a tidy profit by making a shitty game and selling it to anti-establishment teenagers that will buy anything so long as it upsets those darn dirty SJWs. Hell, it doesn't even look like fun. Have you ever turned on god mode and just gone killing things in a game? It gets boring after like ten minutes. Hatred as an experience could easily be summed up as Johnny Sixteen Year Old pays fifteen dollars to some fucks in poland or wherever, plays the game for ten minutes, goes "heck yeah! I showed anita!" and then never plays the game again because the game is fucking boring.[/QUOTE] Censorship depends on the intent. Are they removing it on the basis that it's dangerous or are they removing it because it's a non-functional product?
[QUOTE=Wii60;46720482]also, greenlight was made for the community to curate what they want on steam, not valve valve is breaking their rules on this[/QUOTE] They've 'broken their rules' on a few games before that got approved by Greenlight by shutting them down and/or removing them. And although there's Sturgeon's Law in that there are good products that get through, there's also a lot of extreme niche or downright awful titles that keep flowing through, which has made people groan about Greenlight for ages since its introduction now.
The reality is that with Valve publishing and selling it on Steam, they do have a legitimate interest in how it represents them as a company. That is a very legitimate interest. And while Valve has never shown one to care about content, quality, or whatever; they very much do care about things misrepresenting them or falsely attributing political association to them when they've never gotten involved in those subjects.
forgot how good this looks
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;46720502]Censorship depends on the intent. Are they removing it on the basis that it's dangerous or are they removing it because it's a non-functional product?[/QUOTE] It could be both. After all, the initial trailer for Hatred included an ESRB "not yet rated" image as well as the Unreal Engine 4 logo when they never submitted the game to the ESRB and Epic Games has publicly stated that they never gave them permission to use Unreal 4.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720497]You'll have to forgive me for thinking that Hatred is a completely transparent ploy to exploit the "us vs. them" mentality on the whole idiotic SJW thing that's going on right now. When this game's trailer first came out, it was the subject of universal ridicule. Everyone was making fun of it, waving it off as edgy garbage. Nobody cared about it. But now? Valve looked at it and said "no thanks, we don't want this edgy garbage" and then suddenly every redditor dons their fedoras and gets up at arms about "SJW's" and "censorship." This game was made to exploit the issue of the week and everyone is falling for it hardcore. It's preposterous. I did watch the trailer, actually, back when everyone was making fun of it. I distinctly remember about a minute and a half of lovingly animated shots of killing unarmed civilians and maybe a single second of one cop shooting back.[/QUOTE] It's redundant to remove it if no one was taking it seriously from the start.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46720482]also, greenlight was made for the community to curate what they want on steam, not valve valve is breaking their rules on this but hey valves ok with a [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/313740/"]literal hentai game[/URL] on their service, but shooting people is too far[/QUOTE]Because those things do not falsely attribute political associations to Valve who will be responsible for this game if they choose to put it up. Hatred is not just shooting people, this is the exact thing I said about context. We've both been active in GamerGate for a long time now, what is one thing that is always important: Context. What are you, in complete contradiction to this idea, doing? You are stripping out the context. You are removing it to make a point sound good. You are doing one of the very things GamerGate complains about. Quit staring in to the damned abyss.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720548]It could be both. After all, the initial trailer for Hatred included an ESRB "not yet rated" image as well as the Unreal Engine 4 logo when they never submitted the game to the ESRB and Epic Games has publicly stated that they never gave them permission to use Unreal 4.[/QUOTE] They were allowed to use UE4, just not it's logo because it might incur bad PR.
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;46720193]that's the point, though? it's purposefully being super ridiculously edgy it's the game equivalent of a joke sonic oc and it's being pulled because they're scared soccer mom's aren't gonna get the punchline[/QUOTE] Ok? I'm just saying its hella edgy, don't step on my toes lol
For those wondering what makes Hatred different to Postal 1, there's one very clear yet simple difference. Hatred glorifies mass murder, whereas Postal condemns it. Postal constantly makes you feel uncomfortable and shows you that your actions are fucked up, whereas Hatred encourages that behaviour. They're opposite ideals about the same subject matter.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;46720037]Buckley made a point. Well, I'm off to stock my doomsday shelter.[/QUOTE] Buckley's good in the sense that he can do good humour when he wasn't fucking ULTRA DRAMA.
People keep saying "Well why are they selling the Postal games and GTAV et cetera?!" Maybe because there is wildly varying context that changes the conditions! Maybe looking at everything through a lens of stupid simplicity is a bad idea.
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