• Valve pulls Hatred from Greenlight due to disagreeing with the subject matter of the game.
    576 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46720951]You're being intentionally obstinate but I'm gonna chime in and say that, yes, depicting violence for plot purposes is entirely justifiable, especially when it comes to making you dislike the story's antagonist. Modern Warfare 2's No Russian scene is there to make you hate the bad guy, and that's fine. There's an intent behind the violence, a justification, and that's what separates it from Hatred.[/QUOTE] Again we are at the issue of -Hatred, how will the player know their actions are bad -MW2, the player will know the bad guy is bad because of their actions [QUOTE=Killuah;46720996]deciding whether or not you like/dislike a game is much easier than claiming a game to be a scam[/QUOTE] When it advertises itself with fraudulent promotional images and claims gameplay features which it does not have, it's pretty easy to be called a scam. [QUOTE=wraithcat;46721002]Oh look we will totally remove a game the media got negatively interested in, but will otherwise refuse to curate our store and will allow pretty much broken or nongames on, unless enough people who were burned scream.[/QUOTE] Didn't it take several days for The War Z to even be addressed by Steam?
Oh look we will totally remove a game the media got negatively interested in, but will otherwise refuse to curate our store and will allow pretty much broken or nongames on, unless enough people who were burned scream.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46720978]you could've just shortened it to "we're getting there slowly"[/QUOTE] Well, we are, but we can speed it up if we know what we are doing. After all, knowledge is power, even if it helps to use money in tandem with it, sadly. It is indeed heartening that young people are more liberal on average than before, but the modern man in me is exasperated that even with the vast number of liberal youths in this world, the transition away from the nonsense of the Old World is just so god-damn slow. I know that Rome wasn't built in a day, but with the speed of modern life I wish that the evolution of society wasn't so sluggish and bound to the whims of the electronic old men. It can't be wrong to wish the world was a better place, no matter your culture or upbringing, even if not everyone has the right concept of the term "better".
[QUOTE=Killuah;46720996]deciding whether or not you like/dislike a game is much easier than claiming a game to be a scam[/QUOTE] I wish I knew that before I bought Mass Effect 3. Could have saved 60 bucks. Conversely, I can see why it would be so hard to tell that Guise of the Wolf was a scam. You need to play that game for ten whole minutes to get to the broken and missing content! It's much easier to judge things that [I]don't exist yet.[/I]
[QUOTE=Thlis;46720999] When it advertises itself with fraudulent promotional images and claims gameplay features which it does not have, it's pretty easy to be called a scam. [/QUOTE] yeah but when it doesn't or when it promises stuff in te future it's not easy
I respect Valves right as a company, it IS their platform(although, pretty fucking monopolized) But this is just so fucking stupid, what a horrible and broad reason to pull a fucking game like Hatred. GTAV is coming out in Jan for PC, that shit is gonna be plastered ALL over the front fucking page and top seller for like months, everyones gonna buy it and Valve is gonna love all the money. MGS GZ comes out in 3 days on PC, dont wanna spoil it since its close to release but for anyone thats played it and bothered to get tapes and pay attention to shit realize just how fucked up and dark GZ really is. MGSV is being put on steam, once again from what we have seen it looks like the most brutal MGS(it looks like we are going to actually come in contact with Child Soldiers and possibly kill them) Manhunt is still on steam. GTA 3, Vice, SE, gay tony, biker gang one, are all on steam. All of these games are way more "offensive", dark, and brutal than a fucking game with no story thats just about killing no named NPC humans. Its just fucking hypocritical.
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;46720980]And what's stopping Hatred's narrative from painting the MC like an unapologetic asshole and psychopath ? I mean the trailer didn't make me think that I'd like to get some icecream with the guy.[/QUOTE] Hatred's narrative doesn't do anything to paint Knot Himportant as a positive character, but that's not really the issue. The actions aren't really portrayed in a negative light either. The story is told from the PC's perspective, you control his actions and are given a clear goal to commit as much murder as possible in a realistic manner, and the game's soundrack is heavy drums and electric guitars meant to push the player along. The trailer focuses on explosions, "money shots," and flashy images. It's clear that the game's not portraying the violence in any sort of negative light and it's not pushing any sort of extremes to make the violence over the top and comedic. The tone conveys the message "do some murder because murder is cool." Not "do some violence because you're being forced to," or "haha dude look at how his head exploded and fifteen gallons of blood shot out that's so ridiculous," but "do a murder because these innocent people deserve it. have some electric guitars to go with it."
I'd care more if the game looked fun. Like, completely ignoring the dumb "I hate everyone and I'm going to kill them" principle of the game, I quit finding top-down kill-everything-in-sight shooters fun when I turned like 9. [QUOTE=Coffee;46720020]I'm pretty sure Postal 1 is only on steam to keep parity with postal 2[/QUOTE] So what about the other sequels on Steam without their originals? Also that'd be dumb. What you're saying is that if Hatred 2 was made and it was the same style as Postal 2 and actually made it onto Steam, that Hatred 1 should totally be added just on principle that the sequel isn't that bad.
the fact that this is taken off greenlight but the obvious deviantart pornfetish game gets accepted sort of says valve doesn't want the media shit talkin them but is fine with their own customers saying how shit greenlight, early access and there for steam are.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46720995]What game(s) are you refering to? Air Control? They've delt with that. Also, it takes more than just a push of a button to get shit off their store, such as re-reimbursing owners, discussing things with the games creators, etc., especially when they're also working on a thousand other things (sales, business transactions, steam support, server maintenance, not to mention anything not related to steam.) There's a reason it took Valve 3 weeks to remove Air Control. Though I will admit Valve was VERY quick to push this off of Greenlight. Like, suspiciously quick, and it may just invalidate everything I just said.[/QUOTE] The way Steam works is the games only get pulled from the store. People that had bought it previously still can download and play it normally. All the community stuff still works etc. The only difference is that it can't be bought anymore. I'm pretty sure they can take stuff down immediately if they want to, they've just gotten extremely shitty at managing the stuff that gets on Steam.
Uh-huh Valve. What about Grass Simulator and all other games that aren't even playable? I suppose it's OK to remove Hatred because it's well known.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46721047]Hatred's narrative doesn't do anything to paint Knot Himportant as a positive character, but that's not really the issue. The actions aren't really portrayed in a negative light either. [/QUOTE] As I've said twice before. Why is it that MW2 players can establish something is negative based on actions while Hatred needs a neon saying its actions are bad?
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46721047]Hatred's narrative doesn't do anything to paint Knot Himportant as a positive character, but that's not really the issue. The actions aren't really portrayed in a negative light either. The story is told from the PC's perspective, you control his actions and are given a clear goal to commit as much murder as possible in a realistic manner, and the game's soundrack is heavy drums and electric guitars meant to push the player along. The trailer focuses on explosions, "money shots," and flashy images. It's clear that the game's not portraying the violence in any sort of negative light and it's not pushing any sort of extremes to make the violence over the top and comedic. The tone conveys the message "do some murder because murder is cool." Not "do some violence because you're being forced to," or "haha dude look at how his head exploded and fifteen gallons of blood shot out that's so ridiculous," but "do a murder because these innocent people deserve it. have some electric guitars to go with it."[/QUOTE] Jeez maybe because we're in the PC's perspective who is obviously not mentally well? Do I suddenly become a murder lusting serial killer if I play this game? Is my ability to know it's wrong to murder people going to go away just because the game decides to not paint murdering people in a completely negative light?
[QUOTE=Thlis;46720999]Again we are at the issue of -Hatred, how will the player know their actions are bad -MW2, the player will know the bad guy is bad because of their actions[/QUOTE] Uhm, geez, maybe because we just saw the supposed main character loading up all his weapons, getting out of the house, and shooting and killing everyone, after a monologue about how he's full of hatred (which is the goddamn title of the game) and that everything is rotten and needs to die by his hand and THEN depicts the main character shooting what can be seen as being innocent civilians? While in MW2, we know who the bad guy is because we literaly get to see in first hand the very antagonist mowing down a shitload of people at an airport for an unknown motive? And if you are talking about the OpFor in the middle East, those were Al-Asad's troops, or something like that. The only guys who could actually be seen as good that you are forced to shoot, are the FSB at the airport, MAYBE Shadow Company (depending on whoever they think you really are, but are most likely real antagonists and not "killing actual good guys brainwashed to be bad"), and the russian troops invading the US, which you only find out they are attacking you because of the airport massacre, which happened because the main bad guy left you for dead so that russian authorities thought it was a US sponsored attack, to spark an all out war with Russia. Do you not get that?
nothin personelll kids ;) -Valve
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;46721088]Uhm, geez, maybe because we just saw the supposed main character loading up all his weapons, getting out of the house, and shooting and killing everyone, after a monologue about how he's full of hatred (which is the goddamn title of the game) and that everything is rotten and needs to die by his hand and THEN depicts the main character shooting what can be seen as being innocent civilians? While in MW2, we know who the bad guy is because we literaly get to see in first hand the very antagonist mowing down a shitload of people at an airport for an unknown motive? And if you are talking about the OpFor in the middle East, those were Al-Asad's troops, or something like that. The only guys who could actually be seen as good that you are forced to shoot, are the FSB at the airport, MAYBE Shadow Company (depending on whoever they think you really are, but are most likely real antagonists and not "killing actual good guys brainwashed to be bad"), and the russian troops invading the US, which you only find out they are attacking you because of the airport massacre, which happened because the main bad guy left you for dead so that russian authorities thought it was a US sponsored attack, to spark an all out war with Russia. Do you not get that?[/QUOTE] No because I usually assume people already know "killing innocent people is bad" and don't need it sign posted.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;46721086]Postal 1 is easily more terrifying and creepy than Hatred is. I don't even take Hatred seriously[/QUOTE] Hatred looks like a game designed, produced by, and starring Nathan Explosion. Honestly, it's only a few degrees away from a Metalocolypse video game.
[QUOTE=wulfe8857;46720940]It's not about [I]can [/I]do it's about whether it's the [I]only thing[/I] to do. If you can murder civilians and cops (like in Hatred) and do everything you can in GTA, you have GTA. The intent of Hatred is mass murder (not acceptable); the combination game you describe does not have that same intent and is instead about doing whatever you want to, including non-violent things (acceptable). Individual player choice does not affect the meaning of the game.[/QUOTE] So it's not fucked up at all that among other things, you're free to grab a combine harvester in San Andreas and harvest people. The "among other things" makes it acceptable. Or this shit [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWU_LuDiIzI[/media] It's fine because you can simply run the people down on a stolen car or roast them with a flamethrower. Or is it actually all fine because the camera is higher up? GTA is a human butchering simulator, not in a million years can you prove otherwise. There's just bad guys mixed in for flavor, doesn't change that sidewalks are still always full of inviting innocents. By the way, now that I mentioned GTA2, do you know what it's working name was? Grievous Bodily Harm.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46721037]I respect Valves right as a company, it IS their platform(although, pretty fucking monopolized) But this is just so fucking stupid, what a horrible and broad reason to pull a fucking game like Hatred. GTAV is coming out in Jan for PC, that shit is gonna be plastered ALL over the front fucking page and top seller for like months, everyones gonna buy it and Valve is gonna love all the money. MGS GZ comes out in 3 days on PC, dont wanna spoil it since its close to release but for anyone thats played it and bothered to get tapes and pay attention to shit realize just how fucked up and dark GZ really is. MGSV is being put on steam, once again from what we have seen it looks like the most brutal MGS(it looks like we are going to actually come in contact with Child Soldiers and possibly kill them) Manhunt is still on steam. GTA 3, Vice, SE, gay tony, biker gang one, are all on steam. All of these games are way more "offensive", dark, and brutal than a fucking game with no story thats just about killing no named NPC humans. Its just fucking hypocritical.[/QUOTE] Well, I mean, those games have points other than "KILL FUCKING EVERYONE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL TERRIBLE." Like, even in Manhunt, you're not exactly free to leave whenever you want. You're forced into killing everyone by the fact that they'll kill you if you don't kill them, and that the way you need to go to get out of the hellhole you're in is always blocked off until you kill everyone in the area and the asshole director opens the gate. Like, sure, you could play the game by walking out in the open and letting them beat you down in the first level, but would you? Let's also not forget that they [I]didn't[/I] put Manhunt 2 on Steam.
[QUOTE=Thlis;46720999]Again we are at the issue of -Hatred, how will the player know their actions are bad -MW2, the player will know the bad guy is bad because of their actions [/QUOTE] The tone of the trailer is super easy to make judgement calls on. There are things you can do with your soundtrack and the framing of your shots to make violence seem cool or seem disturbing. Hotline Miami is actually a really cool example of this. While you're playing the game, you get a pumping soundtrack, vibrant colors, and over-the-top gratuitous violence. You get "cool" violence. Then, when you finish the stage and reach your objective, the music mutes, the colors become washed out, and you walk out of the building you're in and are made to step over the bloody bodies. The violence is now disturbing. You're made to think "gee, was it okay for me to have had as much fun as I was when this was the end result?" The music and the framing in Hatred's trailer never leaves the "cool" territory while you're performing actions that really shouldn't be depicted as cool. That's where the problem is. Even though Knot Himportant himself is, to an outside observer, an amoral jackass, within the context of the game he's presented as an action star. That's the problem. [QUOTE=Thlis;46721079]As I've said twice before. Why is it that MW2 players can establish something is negative based on actions while Hatred needs a neon saying its actions are bad?[/QUOTE] The difference is that MW2's neon sign says "this is bad" whereas Hatred's neon sign says "this is cool."
I'll just have to take my money elsewhere for this game then.
There is also something to be said about Valve communicating this to the community. The page was blocked for everyone and all we got was Doug Laidlaw telling Eurogamer "Yeah we didn't feel like distributing it". Tens of thousands of people wanted to see this game on Steam and we get that? When K-Mart and Target stopped distributing GTAV they atleast made a public statement about it. It shows a lot of arrogance on Valves part, like they don't owe anyone an explanation.
[QUOTE=Drury;46721109]So it's not fucked up at all that among other things, you're free to grab a combine harvester in San Andreas and harvest people. The "among other things" makes it acceptable. Or this shit [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWU_LuDiIzI[/media] It's fine because you can simply run the people down on a stolen car or roast them with a flamethrower. Or is it actually all fine because the camera is higher up? GTA is a human butchering simulator, not in a million years can you prove otherwise. There's just bad guys mixed in for flavor, doesn't change that sidewalks are still always full of inviting innocents. By the way, now that I mentioned GTA2, do you know what it's working name was? Grievous Bodily Harm.[/QUOTE] I can kill hundreds of innocent people in The Sims is it a mass murder simulator
i can't believe Valve would hold me back from the greatest game ever made. i'm gonna make a game distribution platform for sociopaths only where we just sell ethnic cleansing and hatred
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46721037]All of these games are way more "offensive", dark, and brutal than a fucking game with no story thats just about killing no named NPC humans.[/QUOTE] How are they more brutal and dark than a game that puts you in the body of a psycopath who thinks the world is completely rotten and everyone must be killed, who executes people in pretty sick ways? No really, it sounds like nobody saw the trailer for Hatred. It's a game based around killing people because "you are a psycopath who hates everything and wants to cleanse the world by killing". Period. Nothing else. No other reason. Seriously, we're comparing a game where the most violence you can do to someone is pummel them to death with your fists, to a game where you grab someone like a sack and shoot their heads off. This is laughable.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46721137]There is also something to be said about Valve communicating this to the community. The page was blocked for everyone and all we got was Doug Laidlaw telling Eurogamer "Yeah we didn't feel like distributing it". Tens of thousands of people wanted to see this game on Steam and we get that? When K-Mart and Target stopped distributing GTAV they atleast made a public statement about it. It shows a lot of arrogance on Valves part, like they don't owe anyone an explanation.[/QUOTE] They really don't owe an explanation. Tens of thousands of people want Dead Rising and Saints Row's original games on the PC, a platform it wasn't distributed on, like Steam, but that hasn't happened. Are we entitled to an explanation why just because we want it and they wont give it?
[QUOTE=gk99;46721142]I can kill hundreds of innocent people in The Sims is it a mass murder simulator[/QUOTE] GTA leads you to kill innocents; The Sims deters you from doing it.
I do hope that these guys find a way to sell their game, though. Even though I don't want it, it looks like they put a lot of work into it and it'd suck ass for that to all go to waste.
[QUOTE=gk99;46721142]I can kill hundreds of innocent people in The Sims is it a mass murder simulator[/QUOTE] Yes, it was an advertised feature in the pool dlc. 1:02 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0snD577tc&feature=player_detailpage#t=63[/media] [QUOTE=Drury;46721165]The Sims deters you from doing it.[/QUOTE] Sorry you are playing it wrong.
[QUOTE=Drury;46721165]The Sims deters you from doing it.[/QUOTE] When? If you shoot someone in the leg in GTA, they'll get up and limp away screaming. If you set fire to a Sim's house they'll panic and try to put it out and not burn to death, which I feel is just as bad. [editline]15th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Thlis;46721186]Yes, it was an advertised feature in the pool dlc. Sorry you are playing it wrong.[/QUOTE] Ah, see, that's why it's not on Steam!
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