Valve pulls Hatred from Greenlight due to disagreeing with the subject matter of the game.
576 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The Calzone;46721133]The tone of the trailer is super easy to make judgement calls on. There are things you can do with your soundtrack and the framing of your shots to make violence seem cool or seem disturbing.
Hotline Miami is actually a really cool example of this. While you're playing the game, you get a pumping soundtrack, vibrant colors, and over-the-top gratuitous violence. You get "cool" violence. Then, when you finish the stage and reach your objective, the music mutes, the colors become washed out, and you walk out of the building you're in and are made to step over the bloody bodies. The violence is now disturbing. You're made to think "gee, was it okay for me to have had as much fun as I was when this was the end result?"
The music and the framing in Hatred's trailer never leaves the "cool" territory while you're performing actions that really shouldn't be depicted as cool. That's where the problem is. Even though Knot Himportant himself is, to an outside observer, an amoral jackass, within the context of the game he's presented as an action star. That's the problem.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly288sMh9Pk[/media]
Look at this trash, clearly these developers are trying to glorify American interventionism and nationalistic values! Look at the "cool" camera angles they use to show the protagonist murdering foreign citizens!
I'm glad Steam took this game off it's shelves before it had a chance to come out. It's clearly just another murder simulator.
the only reason Hatred exists is to stir up controversy every which way it goes.
To me there's nothing interesting about it, just a bunch of people intentionally trying to get something to shock and appall. Weightless, no meaning to it.
Really could care less that it's getting taken off. It's just tasteless imo
[QUOTE=gk99;46721161]They really don't owe an explanation.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they don't owe us an explanation, but it sure would be fucking nice.
[QUOTE=gk99;46721161]Tens of thousands of people want Dead Rising and Saints Row's original games on the PC, a platform it wasn't distributed on, like Steam, but that hasn't happened. Are we entitled to an explanation why just because we want it and they wont give it?[/QUOTE]
Completely different scenario? Hatred was on Greenlight and Valve went out of their way to ban it saying it was a "TOS violation" while allowing virtually every other scam and shovelware project through.
Ok let me rephrase:
When you kill 5 guys in a second in GTA, it's GOURANGA
When you kill 5 guys in a second in The Sims, you've wasted 3 days setting it up
And the game doesn't give any feedback
[QUOTE=gk99;46721117]Well, I mean, those games have points other than "KILL FUCKING EVERYONE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL TERRIBLE."
Like, even in Manhunt, you're not exactly free to leave whenever you want. You're forced into killing everyone by the fact that they'll kill you if you don't kill them, and that the way you need to go to get out of the hellhole you're in is always blocked off until you kill everyone in the area and the asshole director opens the gate.
Like, sure, you could play the game by walking out in the open and letting them beat you down in the first level, but would you? Let's also not forget that they [I]didn't[/I] put Manhunt 2 on Steam.[/QUOTE]
Everybody ignores that.
In Manhunt, you're killing people who WILL kill you if you don't kill them. Bad people aswell.
In GTAV, sure, you kill civs, but you aren't forced to do it, and you don't do it in an extremely explicit way, nor does the game reward you for it, in fact, it tries to "cut you out of it".
MGS GZ and V, for starters, we don't even know if we will be shooting child soldiers, AND we don't know what motives we will have to shoot anyone who might be good or what penalties we might get from it. So what if theres dark stuff going on in the tapes?
Also I see the Spec Ops / Hotline / GTAV comparisons all the time here's the big ol' differydoo
Spec Ops the line is about shooting at renegade soldiers
GTAV / Hotline Miami shooting criminals
Hatred is literally about killing innocent unarmed civilians
there's a difference.
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;46721203]the only reason Hatred exists is to stir up controversy every which way it goes.
To me there's nothing interesting about it, just a bunch of people intentionally trying to get something to shock and appall. Weightless, no meaning to it.
Really could care less that it's getting taken off. It's just tasteless imo[/QUOTE]
I agree, games not particularly interesting from what I've seen, but it shows a major inconsistency in Valves ability to police their own early access program.
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;46721203]the only reason Hatred exists is to stir up controversy every which way it goes.
To me there's nothing interesting about it, just a bunch of people intentionally trying to get something to shock and appall. Weightless, no meaning to it.
Really could care less that it's getting taken off. It's just tasteless imo[/QUOTE]
Literaly all that needed to be said tbh.
The idea of the game is in extreme poor taste, and even though they might be at it for real, its pretty obvious the devs would get flack for making the kind of game they are making, but they still went on with it. Like, Call of Duty has a better idea than this.
[editline]15th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46721243]I agree, games not particularly interesting from what I've seen, but it shows a major inconsistency in Valves ability to police their own early access program.[/QUOTE]
Valve really can't work Greenlight at all. We get some great games, but other games... Wow...
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;46721150]How are they more brutal and dark than a game that puts you in the body of a psycopath who thinks the world is completely rotten and everyone must be killed, who executes people in pretty sick ways?
No really, it sounds like nobody saw the trailer for Hatred. It's a game based around killing people because "you are a psycopath who hates everything and wants to cleanse the world by killing". Period. Nothing else. No other reason.
Seriously, we're comparing a game where the most violence you can do to someone is pummel them to death with your fists, to a game where you grab someone like a sack and shoot their heads off.
This is laughable.[/QUOTE]
Because it has no context to its situations other than you are just killing nameless NPCs because you want to die but take as many out as you can before you do.
Compare that to something like Chico in GZ, or GTAV Torture scene and you got something A WHOLE LOT MORE dark and fucked up because its actually meaningful and has context surrounding it.
Hatred is like fucking hotline miami or Smash TV except 3D, well its actually Postal 1 literally in 3D.
Hatreds executions are like the tamest shit.
Like oh no he shot someone in the head by holding them and its not even well animated enough for a detailed and gory brain explosion, its about as tame as head shotting someone in GTA.
Those executions really that bad for you? I mean fuck ive seen way worse shit.
people are getting hissy for the sake of getting hissy. If valve didn't ban hatred it wouldve faded into obscurity over time but because of this everyone gotta crawl out of the woodwork and explain how Hatred was actually going to redefine video games and be GOTYAY
there's so much negativity in gaming already you know I really don't think we need a murder simulator imo
[QUOTE=Thlis;46721098]No because I usually assume people already know "killing innocent people is bad" and don't need it sign posted.[/QUOTE]
And how is a game based around it anywhere enjoyable?
Sounds even more boring than CoD, unless whoever plays it is into that stuff...
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46720941]If you can tell exactly what something is by the trailer alone, why do you buy any games or watch any movies in the first place?
Sometimes shit's different. I don't know if it [I]will[/I] be, but the fact that everyone is scrambling for excuses to condemn this game before it's even released is disgusting.[/QUOTE]
People aren't scrambling for excuses, the game sells itself by glorifying mass murder. Destructive Creations announced they want to make a game full of hatred and have reaffirmed that multiple times since the first trailer. They've never even implied anything on the contrary. If it was any different, why haven't they made a statement to address Valve's concerns over what it may be? They made one to say they respect Valve's decision and that it won't change the game's vision or gameplay, in other words they're not backing down on its extreme subject matter. Trailers are there to show you a microcosm of what the subject's about, and then you get the full product for more of it. If the game isn't what they've been saying it is for all these months, you can colour me surprised. All that aside I'm not even particularly fussed over it. However, I don't blame anyone who does condemn what Destructive have shown them.
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;46721235]Also I see the Spec Ops / Hotline / GTAV comparisons all the time here's the big ol' differydoo
Spec Ops the line is about shooting at renegade soldiers
GTAV / Hotline Miami shooting criminals
Hatred is literally about killing innocent unarmed civilians
there's a difference.[/QUOTE]Spec Ops is a rare beast in that it turns the trope of jingostic military dickwad on it's head, and shows you to be a mentally ill war criminal; the almost complete extermination of everyone left in Dubai being directly attributable to the player character wanting to be the hero.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;46721150]How are they more brutal and dark than a game that puts you in the body of a psycopath who thinks the world is completely rotten and everyone must be killed, who executes people in pretty sick ways?
No really, it sounds like nobody saw the trailer for Hatred. It's a game based around killing people because "you are a psycopath who hates everything and wants to cleanse the world by killing". Period. Nothing else. No other reason.
Seriously, we're comparing a game where the most violence you can do to someone is pummel them to death with your fists, to a game where you grab someone like a sack and shoot their heads off.
This is laughable.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't want to "cleanse the world", he's just a suicidal psycho who decided to go on a rampage before offing himself, a thought I had to battle a lot when I was going through depression.
Eh, I don't know!
On one hand, I can see why Valve would do such a thing. Feel free to call me a pussy, but watching that trailer kinda made me feel weird inside... bad weird!
On the other hand, if I were part of the dev team behind the game, man it'd suck for valve to just ditch the whole thing like that. Besides, while I [I]personally[/I] think that might be a little fucked up, some people might actually enjoy this game.
I honestly am not sure what to think of this whole thing. :s
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;46721232]Everybody ignores that.
In Manhunt, you're killing people who WILL kill you if you don't kill them. Bad people aswell.
In GTAV, sure, you kill civs, but you aren't forced to do it, and you don't do it in an extremely explicit way, nor does the game reward you for it, in fact, it tries to "cut you out of it".
MGS GZ and V, for starters, we don't even know if we will be shooting child soldiers, AND we don't know what motives we will have to shoot anyone who might be good or what penalties we might get from it. So what if theres dark stuff going on in the tapes?[/QUOTE]
You actually have plenty of motives in GZ for people you are forced to kill. Tapes are more fucked up than anything to come out of hatred, let alone most game series. Why ignore it just because its "On tapes" its a fuck load more bold and serious than any of the games I listed. Shits about as dark as Silent Hill 2.
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;46721267]people are getting hissy for the sake of getting hissy. If valve didn't ban hatred it wouldve faded into obscurity over time but because of this everyone gotta crawl out of the woodwork and explain how Hatred was actually going to redefine video games and be GOTYAY
there's so much negativity in gaming already you know I really don't think we need a murder simulator imo[/QUOTE]
I don't give a shit about Hatred. I wouldn't have Greenlit it and I certainly wouldn't have bought into the inevitable Early Access scam.
But I think it should be given the exact same shot every other Greenlight project does rather than being silently shut down. I want Valve to take more responsibility for Greenlight/Early Access, not apply preferential treatment.
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;46721303]He doesn't want to "cleanse the world", he's just a suicidal psycho who decided to go on a rampage before offing himself, a thought I had to battle a lot when I was going through depression.[/QUOTE]
you should stay very far away from video games about killing people
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46721200][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly288sMh9Pk[/media]
Look at this trash, clearly these developers are trying to glorify American interventionism and nationalistic values! Look at the "cool" camera angles they use to show the protagonist murdering foreign citizens!
I'm glad Steam took this game off it's shelves before it had a chance to come out. It's clearly just another murder simulator.[/QUOTE]
Damn bro, you got me. the way spec ops intentionally presented itself as a generic shooter in order to subvert expectations is totally comparable to the way Hatred presents itself as the product of a sociopath. I am positive that Hatred is totally going to subvert expectations and it'll actually be about knitting despite the fact that the developers have done nothing to hint that the point of the game is just pointless murder, whereas the Spec Ops trailer does contain some hints near the end of it that suggest that it's a bit more than just a military shooter. I got owned. You owned me.
Sure Valve, you agree with scams and outright broken shit that scammers sell on your platform because "THEY WENT THROUGH GREENLIGHT!", while the same doesn't apply when bad press is involved. Yet another example of how criticism coming from consumers is ignored, but criticism coming from shit media (that also lost touch with consumers years ago) with level of professional integrity and authority way below that of tabloids is the real deal. Yeah I'm not buying this 'we disagree' thing. Since they don't feel like explaining why consumer's opinion isn't necessary, I don't think they have the moral integrity to agree or disagree with the message one or the other game supposedly has.
I'm now buying this game out of principle. I'm pretty sure there're other digital distributors out there, they want my money more obviously. If it comes out, that is, I'm not funding 'development' projects.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;46721302]Spec Ops is a rare beast in that it turns the trope of jingostic military dickwad on it's head, and shows you to be a mentally ill war criminal; the almost complete extermination of everyone left in Dubai being directly attributable to the player character wanting to be the hero.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I know, I played it and really liked it. Same thing with Hotline.
There was a trend in 2012 where all games needed to be about KILLING IS BAD we had SpecOps, Hotline, Far Cry 3 and Tomb Raider all tell the exact same idea story wise and only the first 2 in that list were any decent
The massive difference again is that both Hotline and Spec Ops were not billed as that.
Spec Ops was billed as a dark adventure through a post apocalyptic Dubai. Wow. I've never played a game in Dubai, that sounds interesting!
Hotline Miami was billed as an 8bit top down brawler where I die in one hit and there's 80's club music and it's sorta kinda based off Drive? Okay, wow, interesting
Hatreds entire marketing is "muh edge" just showing killing people in an isometric shooter, a totally original not 15 year old idea or anything
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46721259]Because it has no context to its situations other than you are just killing nameless NPCs because you want to die but take as many out as you can before you do.
Compare that to something like Chico in GZ, or GTAV Torture scene and you got something A WHOLE LOT MORE dark and fucked up because its actually meaningful and has context surrounding it.
Hatred is like fucking hotline miami or Smash TV except 3D, well its actually Postal 1 literally in 3D.
Hatreds executions are like the tamest shit.
Like oh no he shot someone in the head by holding them and its not even well animated enough for a detailed and gory brain explosion, its about as tame as head shotting someone in GTA.
Those executions really that bad for you? I mean fuck ive seen way worse shit.[/QUOTE]
How is that enjoyable?...
Hatred is hotline miami, except you're some looney guy, and the bad guys aren't bad guys lol.
Tame? Wow, what isn't tame then?... It's nothing like GTA lol. Yes, you totaly blow people's head's off and stab them to death in a fit of rage as the main attraction of GTA!...
You don't even kill the guy in GTAV, and you never get to see Chico being hurt or anything in GZ, hell, you save him... How is that anywhere comparable to Hatred?
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;46721330]Yeah. I know, I played it and really liked it. Same thing with Hotline.
There was a trend in 2012 where all games needed to be about KILLING IS BAD we had SpecOps, Hotline, Far Cry 3 and Tomb Raider all tell the exact same idea story wise and only the first 2 in that list were any decent
The massive difference again is that both Hotline and Spec Ops were not billed as that.
Spec Ops was billed as a dark adventure through a post apocalyptic Dubai. Wow. I've never played a game in Dubai, that sounds interesting!
Hotline Miami was billed as an 8bit top down brawler where I die in one hit and there's 80's club music and it's sorta kinda based off Drive? Okay, wow, interesting
Hatreds entire marketing is "muh edge" just showing killing people in an isometric shooter, a totally original not 15 year old idea or anything[/QUOTE]Didn't mean to imply you didn't get the story, was just elaborating for the benefit of those who haven't played it.
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;46721235]Also I see the Spec Ops / Hotline / GTAV comparisons all the time here's the big ol' differydoo
Spec Ops the line is about shooting at renegade soldiers
GTAV / Hotline Miami shooting criminals
Hatred is literally about killing innocent unarmed civilians
there's a difference.[/QUOTE]
HM is about killing gangsters in ways that not even gangsters deserve.
GTA is very much about killing innocents. It's within the objectives.
Spec Ops highlights how meaningless killing is.
Hatred combines all. As I said, it brings nothing new to the table yet people are flipping out.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46721306]You actually have plenty of motives in GZ for people you are forced to kill. Tapes are more fucked up than anything to come out of hatred, let alone most game series. Why ignore it just because its "On tapes" its a fuck load more bold and serious than any of the games I listed. Shits about as dark as Silent Hill 2.[/QUOTE]
Because you do absolutely none of it to anyone? Hence why I said its just on tapes.
And you actually aren't forced to kill anyone in GZ, excluding one or two missions in which the targets are actually pretty bad people, like that sniper/spoter team or whatever they were.
But if we go by your logic, you also get to kill lots of nameless NPCs, in far less gruesome ways, for more and "better" reasons, in comparison to Hatred.
The guidelines for Greenlight allow Valve to remove any game with "offensive material":
[IMG]http://puu.sh/dwggH/14e35ef8fa.png[/IMG]
They've also done this earlier with another game:
[URL="http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-removes-seduce-me-from-steam-greenlight-for-offensive-material/"]http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-removes-seduce-me-from-steam-greenlight-for-offensive-material/
[/URL]
So they're pretty much justified with removing the game.
[QUOTE=Baron von Hax;46720362]Plague Inc is a strategic simulation game. This game lacks and backstory and is literally just killing for the sake of killing. Not saying it should have been removed, just saying it looks shit.[/QUOTE]
Hey, if I want to strategically simulate walking into a grocery store and killing everyone in a video game rather than doing it real life, then who are you to stop me? I'd much rather have a game that some people can channel some anger into. We all have that one game in our library thats used solely for that purpose.
Even if it was removed from STEAM, I'm sure the company will still find a way to sell it. Probably directly off their websites like some games. And if so, I'm going to buy it and play the shit out of it.
[QUOTE=Wowza!;46721419]The guidelines for Greenlight allow Valve to remove any game with "offensive material":
[IMG]http://puu.sh/dwggH/14e35ef8fa.png[/IMG]
They've also done this earlier with another game:
[URL]http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-removes-seduce-me-from-steam-greenlight-for-offensive-material/[/URL][/QUOTE]
The problem is,what is 'offensive material' in Valve's eyes?
It just seems things that bring bad press.
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;46721303]He doesn't want to "cleanse the world", he's just a suicidal psycho who decided to go on a rampage before offing himself, [B]a thought I had to battle a lot when I was going through depression.[/B][/QUOTE]
Uhh..
UHHHHH
the devs really have outdone themself on this because this game literrally needs no marketing just by existing it does itself
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