Dutch 'Black Pete' Christmas custom may be racist, warns UN - Polidicks

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617199]if its not racist then why do your parents have to explain it to you they way they did? im not saying we should change anything, just pointing out how absurd this concept is[/QUOTE] I don't really see how people not having filthy clothing is racist. I just asked my parents back when I was 6 because I thought it was weird. Would it be less racist if they had filthy clothing? Would that make it any more festive?

[QUOTE=thejjokerr;42617227]About me and the people I converse with yes, I know that my friends all think the same thing. I guess it says something about our parents being able to see past the "racism" in the event or they actually think the same.[/QUOTE] i dont know how you can put "racism" in quotes when its pretty obvious. if youre gonna stand by a cultural tradition you should have the intellectual honesty and the balls to show it for what it is, instead of hiding behind really ridiculous attempts to explain the horrible past away. lying to kids is bad [QUOTE=thejjokerr;42617227]People get offended all the time, are you saying we should always respond and get rid of whatever offends them?[/QUOTE] it took centuries for the offensive practice of slavery to disappear, theres no getting rid of it

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617178]fantastic understanding of the UN as a world institution. you sure come off as educated[/QUOTE] Fantastic understanding of an exaggerated joke. Or maybe you knew and just wanted to obtain a few edgy brownie points. Either way. [img]http://i.qkme.me/3tvt0v.jpg[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Image macro" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=E X C L;42617242]I don't really see how people not having filthy clothing is racist. I just asked my parents back when I was 6 because I thought it was weird. Would it be less racist if they had filthy clothing? Would that make it any more festive?[/QUOTE] the point being that your parents explained it to you in a politically correct way, because likely, even at age 6, youd raise your eyebrows slightly at having this dark-skinned man following around a saint

sounds like the jjokerr is getting offended that other people are getting offended but maybe his posts just seem that way to me

[QUOTE=Crazy;42617099]Reminds me of how they changed the name of a finnish candy, because people thought it was racist. Roughly translated the candies were called "Niggers kisses". Now they are "Chocolate kisses". We also had a card game called "Black Pete", but now it's just "Pete Game". [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vdi5FP_SnHs/TbuO-VnUF-I/AAAAAAAAALM/4_OFi4TMKJA/s1600/Musta+Pekka.jpg[/img] I think people are sometimes taking this racial stuff too far.[/QUOTE] We had Negro Buns/Fucks as our name for Chocolate-coated marshmallow treats

[QUOTE=Savyetski79;42617262]Fantastic understanding of an exaggerated joke. Or maybe you knew and just wanted to obtain a few edgy brownie points. [/QUOTE] have all of your posts been exaggerated jokes

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617253] lying to kids is bad [/QUote] Oh so you never believed in Santa, the tooth fairy or the easter bunny? Why does everything have to be so black and white with you.

As Stephen Fry once said: “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.” It's about time we stopped banning things that might happen to offend people without the intention to and instead work towards stopping purposely offensive things.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42617274]Oh so you never believed in Santa, the tooth fairy or the easter bunny? Why does everything have to be so black and white with you.[/QUOTE] nope, my parents werent raised with any of that stuff so they didnt raise me with it

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617284]nope, my parents werent raised with any of that stuff so they didnt raise me with it[/QUOTE] That explains [I]a lot[/I]

[QUOTE=Meladath;42617275]As Stephen Fry once said: “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.” It's about time we stopped banning things that might happen to offend people without the intention to and instead work towards stopping purposely offensive things.[/QUOTE] stephen fry himself apologized after making a couple of crass remarks about poland's involvement in the holocaust that people were offended by.

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617272]have all of your posts been exaggerated jokes[/QUOTE] And I would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling facepuncher and their [b]fucking[/b] puffy amiyumi GIF!

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;42617289]So nobody should be raised with it. Logical.[/QUOTE] i never said that? i said lying to kids about the past is bad, because it means theyll never truly understand their own history and the context of things like zwarte piet, as self-evident by people talking about soot.

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617284]nope, my parents werent raised with any of that stuff so they didnt raise me with it[/QUOTE] It's no wonder you are such a Butthurt Beverly then. Who needs fun and hope for kids? No one that's who! Whilst we are at it we should teach children in school quantum mechanics as well as string theory and potentially all the other theories of everything. Currently all we teach them are lies, sure they are far more simple concepts to grasp and are ALMOST correct, but who cares it's a lie!

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42617290]That explains [I]a lot[/I][/QUOTE] as usually i have no idea what you are talking about [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Meladath;42617297]It's no wonder you are such a Butthurt Beverly then. Who needs fun and hope for kids? No one that's who! Whilst we are at it we should teach children in school quantum mechanics and all the different theories of everything because currently all we teach them are lies, sure they are far more simple concepts to grasp and are ALMOST correct, but who cares it's a lie![/QUOTE] is it a weird thing to expect schools to teach kids things that are true??? [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=thejjokerr;42617295]No it just irritates me that because a few people are offended we should change a tradition that has nothing to do with racism in this day and age.[/QUOTE] well be irritated as much as you want but people are going to have a debate about zwarte piet whether you like it or not

[QUOTE=Meladath;42617297]It's no wonder you are such a Butthurt Beverly then. Who needs fun and hope for kids? No one that's who! Whilst we are at it we should teach children in school quantum mechanics as well as string theory and potentially all the other theories of everything. Currently all we teach them are lies, sure they are far more simple concepts to grasp and are ALMOST correct, but who cares it's a lie![/QUOTE] Not when the world is full of social injustice and offensive things. No fun and games allowed.

[QUOTE=thisispain;42617301]as usually i have no idea what you are talking about[/QUOTE] Well first off, look at your post count. Secondly, you are always arguing tooth and nail with somebody in some thread somewhere. 'Oh look a 9 page thread in sh let's see what its about' and its filled up with posts with you bickering back and forth with somebody nitpicking their sentences apart.

thisispain do you have someone to clean our armor when you're off-duty because you're white knighting everything, every time and that might get some spots on it

i dont know how a discussion about lying to children about the historical background of zwartie piet ended up being about fun and me being a "butthurt beverly" because my parents didnt tell me santa was real but i largely don't care zwarte piet obviously is not zwart because of soot, if someone told you that they were not telling the truth or they just didnt know, which is likely. all european nations have had troubling histories with racism and colonialism and part of moving beyond that is allowing the discussion and debate to be honest and forward culture in a positive and non-reactionary way. to be indignant about people raising objections to cultural practices is silly because that's how society progresses. we criticize our past, white-washing it won't do anyone any good [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=breakyourfac;42617329]Well first off, look at your post count. Secondly, you are always arguing tooth and nail with somebody in some thread somewhere. 'Oh look a 9 page thread in sh let's see what its about' and its filled up with posts with you bickering back and forth with somebody nitpicking their sentences apart.[/QUOTE] its true if i believed in santa when i was little my post count would be lower [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Limed00d;42617333]thisispain do you have someone to clean our armor when you're off-duty because you're white knighting everything, every time and that might get some spots on it[/QUOTE] damn thats so original [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Jarokwa;42617335]Schools might aswell tell kids the truth about how shit the world is, how their dreams of being firemen, policemen, soldiers, astronauts will never come true and if they do they'll be shit jobs with more negatives than positives. Yea, good idea, who needs a happy childhood right? You speak as if children need to take everything seriously and know everything behind the screens the moment they are able to walk and talk.[/QUOTE] that has nothing to do with anything i said. i'm just saying that telling kids that zwarte piet is black because of soot is a lie and harmful to their historical understanding. my childhood was quite nice in case anyone else wants to make dumb projections

[QUOTE=thejjokerr;42617355]True but the debate is a silly one and both sides are misinformed(see my posts) or come with silly arguments: [url]http://youtu.be/4teHFkFt410?t=2m57s[/url] (slightly biased source, though there are enough black people I've spoken with that don't understand the fuss either)[/QUOTE] i dont see how having black people on your side makes what you say any different whether you think the debate is silly or not is null. it's a historical debate that has continued on since post-colonialism was an academic concept. [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Jarokwa;42617366]It's not harmful when they don't know any better, besides that if they're anything like me they'll go and search around on the internet themselves anyways.[/QUOTE] the first post of this thread is someone saying its soot and you want to tell me its not harmful to their historical understanding

no one's saying ban christmas, jeez. christ knows why people are getting so defensive about a minor tradition.

Maybe the world needs to look at it's own issues before starting to complain about our traditions that literally does nothing to harm anyone, if anything, it makes the children happy, and makes a very big boost in sales of products that helps out stores everywhere that sell children's toys.

[QUOTE=Hellduck;42617381]no one's saying ban christmas, jeez. christ knows why people are getting so defensive about a minor tradition.[/QUOTE] Not so much getting defensive about a minor tradition as much as the fact that Iran has a very similar holiday that's officially recognized and protected.

[QUOTE=Hellduck;42617381]no one's saying ban christmas, jeez. christ knows why people are getting so defensive about a minor tradition.[/QUOTE] the mindset of SOME, not all, dutch people is that their country is losing something to a foreign force by having their culture changed i was living in Leiden when theo van goth and pim fortuijn were killed. it understandably made a lot of people anxious, and i remember older dutch people saying that they were losing the country to foreigners [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=TDocter;42617397]Maybe the world needs to look at it's own issues[/QUOTE] this is the UN!!!

[QUOTE=TDocter;42617397]Maybe the world needs to look at it's own issues before starting to complain about our traditions that literally does nothing to harm anyone, if anything, it makes the children happy, and makes a very big boost in sales of products that helps out stores everywhere that sell children's toys.[/QUOTE] I dressed up as Zwarte Piet once and went around a few of the younger classes in school. The faces on those kids when you walk in is a real treat.

I'm very sure the UN has better things to do than worrying about an event for children. To associate Sinterklaas with slavery is absurd.

What I'm saying, to put this bluntly, is that maybe if you weren't deprived of wonder and amazement as a child you wouldn't feel the need to constantly argue with random people on the internet all the time.

[QUOTE=thejjokerr;42617409]I'm trying to make the point that it's not meant to be a racist celebration, that only a small group of people are offended by it. Just like a small group of people is offended by [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajji_Firuz"]Hajji Firuz[/URL]: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/HajjiFiruz.JPG/220px-HajjiFiruz.JPG[/IMG] Yet that celebration has been taken on in the list of 'UNESCO Intangible Heritage of Humanity' and it's been recognized by the UN as a legitimate celebration. Why is that any different from what we're celebrating? People are offended there too and there's people there that believe the origins were from slaves as well.[/QUOTE] this is absolutely ridiculous, theres no tie to slavery or colonialism in that article at all. they're two completely different things as far as that article is concerned. and what bearing does a tradition in Iran have to do with this?

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42617419]What I'm saying, to put this bluntly, is that maybe if you weren't deprived of wonder and amazement as a child you wouldn't feel the need to constantly argue with random people on the internet all the time.[/QUOTE] idk i loved santa as a child, and i think this black pete thing is dumb as hell