Dutch 'Black Pete' Christmas custom may be racist, warns UN - Polidicks

[QUOTE=V12US;42618318]8%? We're talking about something more like 0.00008% Even in former Dutch colonies, where the population is almost predominantly black, people don't give a shit. These people celebrate Sinterklaas and wonder where this drama is coming from.[/QUOTE] Yeah, the truth is, the ratio of people that give a shit are like, 1 per 10000, only that with the internet, people group up by ideology so they seem way more when all together. I have rarely met people in real life that don't make at least light fun of eachother's race and/or descent. It's mutual and just for fun, the vast majority of people don't have a massive stick up their ass about it. [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] Also the "don't make fun of X minority!" only helps segregation. Anyone with any degree of social relationships will know that friends make fun of eachother all the time and nobody takes offence. You start barring people from making fun of a certain type of people and all it does is create a tangible separation.

[QUOTE=Crazy;42617099]Reminds me of how they changed the name of a finnish candy, because people thought it was racist. Roughly translated the candies were called "Niggers kisses". Now they are "Chocolate kisses". We also had a card game called "Black Pete", but now it's just "Pete Game". [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vdi5FP_SnHs/TbuO-VnUF-I/AAAAAAAAALM/4_OFi4TMKJA/s1600/Musta+Pekka.jpg[/img] I think people are sometimes taking this racial stuff too far.[/QUOTE] Still called Black Peter (černý petr) here. Also interesting we have a similar blackfaced character during St. Nikolaus processions, though they're meant to be devils.

[QUOTE=acds;42618320]No if we applied my logic to America people would sometimes dress up as Indians, African tribesmen, or Geishas for Halloween or other festivities. Oh wait[/QUOTE] You literally said racial stereotypes are ok because the majority said so

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42618616]You literally said racial stereotypes are ok because the majority said so[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what the word literally means.

[QUOTE=gudman;42618322]"But Italians weren't subjected to slavery so not the same!"[/QUOTE] It's funny because Italians (and Irish) were subjected to pretty godawful treatment over here in the States (and the Irish at the hands of the British) but they're expected to "get over it."

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;42619560]It's funny because Italians (and Irish) were subjected to pretty godawful treatment over here in the States (and the Irish at the hands of the British) but they're expected to "get over it."[/QUOTE] It happened a long time ago! Get over it!1! To be fair though it didn't continue nearly as long as the bad treatment of asians, jews, blacks, and hispanics in the US.

[QUOTE=V12US;42619519]I don't think you understand what the word literally means.[/QUOTE] they changed the definition

[QUOTE=Rusty100;42617530]Um, I don't think stephen fry had blatant racism in mind when he said that [editline]23rd October 2013[/editline] it's black face it IS racist in this day and age. just because you've been doing something a long time doesn't mean you should keep doing it. pertinent example: slavery[/QUOTE] It's racist in select few countries, or at least carries racist connotations. The fact you're ascribing anglosphere cultural norms to places which don't have them is actually relatively racist in on itself.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;42619925]It's racist in select few countries, or at least carries racist connotations. The fact you're ascribing anglosphere cultural norms to places which don't have them is actually relatively racist in on itself.[/QUOTE] I wanted to say that, but couldn't articulate it well enough, you put it way cooler.

Black Pete what?

[QUOTE=Cone;42619785]they changed the definition[/QUOTE] Wat What was it changed to?

[QUOTE=V12US;42620271]Wat What was it changed to?[/QUOTE] Anyone that disagrees with me, especially if they are white.

[QUOTE=V12US;42620271]Wat What was it changed to?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/literally?q=literally"]it now has the added definition of being used for things that aren't literally literal, but use the word "literally" as hyperbole or for added emphasis.[/URL] so now it's perfectly fine to say that someone is literally super racist, because it still fits under its newest definition.

[QUOTE=Cone;42620427][URL="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/literally?q=literally"]it now has the added definition of being used for things that aren't literally literal, but use the word "literally" as hyperbole or for added emphasis.[/URL] so now it's perfectly fine to say that someone is literally super racist, because it still fits under its newest definition.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/literally?q=literally[/url] Oxford says the same, seems legit.

I didn´t know that a key stereotype of black people is bringing gifts to other people.

[QUOTE=Crazy;42617099]Reminds me of how they changed the name of a finnish candy, because people thought it was racist. Roughly translated the candies were called "Niggers kisses". Now they are "Chocolate kisses". We also had a card game called "Black Pete", but now it's just "Pete Game". [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vdi5FP_SnHs/TbuO-VnUF-I/AAAAAAAAALM/4_OFi4TMKJA/s1600/Musta+Pekka.jpg[/img] I think people are sometimes taking this racial stuff too far.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but how can you fault someone for wanting to change the name "Nigger Kisses"? Why would you want to hold on to that? Anyway racist or not, Black Pete is obviously a black guy, I can't find any mention of him being covered in soot anywhere except for a few choice posts from Dutch FP members, so the whole thing just looks like some serious backpedalling on the part of the Netherlands. In fact, according to some of the legends listed on the Wikipedia page for Zwarte Piet, he was originally anywhere from a shackled devil meant to assist Sinterklaas in handing out presents (obviously this was before he was a person named Black Pete), and seeing if children have been good or bad, all the way to a slave freed by Sinterklaas who decided to be his servant. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet#History[/url]

we still often call these negro balls :3 [img]http://www.mums.nu/wp-content/uploads/chokladbollar.jpg[/img]

You know what? It shouldn't stop here. I find Santa Claus way too overweight, it's discriminating, how would all those anorexic people feel when they see that fat jolly fool handing out presents. Skinny people want to hand out presents too you know! And how fucking sexist is this tradition, not ONE woman. I am North-African and came to live in Belgium when I was 5 years old. I loved Sinterklaas, I never once stopped to wonder or think that it was offensive or insulting in ANY way. It made so many children happy and you know what is turning this deal racist? The racist people who are crying fire and death about this. Black pete was originally a devil, coming to scare children who weren't nice. In dutch we associate anything bad with black. (''zwart rijden'' ''zwart werk'' etc) Eventually the devil turned into a helper, and yes around that time, black people were used as helpers (or slaves idgaf it was long time ago.) So the link to use a quircky Moor was quickly made. But times changed and Black pete is black because of the root in the chimney. End of story. And I don't know ONE African person in Belgium whose face is as black as Black Pete's. You are the racist ones associating a damn fucking color with race. Can't we fucking move on from that? Can we finally see colours for colours and humans for humans? There are ACTUAL racist matters going on in this world that we have to deal with, but a tradition that is rendering millions of children happy is NOT one of them. They are turning this into a bitter ordeal, and the ones who watch with racist eyes only will see racist matters.

Silly germans Everyone knows that santa is just grandfather frosts bitch :v:

[QUOTE=TheProfane;42620725]You know what? It shouldn't stop here. I find Santa Claus way too overweight, it's discriminating, how would all those anorexic people feel when they see that fat jolly fool handing out presents. Skinny people want to hand out presents too you know! And how fucking sexist is this tradition, not ONE woman. I am North-African and came to live in Belgium when I was 5 years old. I loved Sinterklaas, I never once stopped to wonder or think that it was offensive or insulting in ANY way. It made so many children happy and you know what is turning this deal racist? The racist people who are crying fire and death about this. Black pete was originally a devil, coming to scare children who weren't nice. In dutch we associate anything bad with black. (''zwart rijden'' ''zwart werk'' etc) Eventually the devil turned into a helper, and yes around that time, black people were used as helpers (or slaves idgaf it was long time ago.) So the link to use a quircky Moor was quickly made. But times changed and Black pete is black because of the root in the chimney. End of story. And I don't know ONE African person in Belgium whose face is as black as Black Pete's. You are the racist ones associating a damn fucking color with race. Can't we fucking move on from that? Can we finally see colours for colours and humans for humans? There are ACTUAL racist matters going on in this world that we have to deal with, but a tradition that is rendering millions of children happy is NOT one of them. They are turning this into a bitter ordeal, and the ones who watch with racist eyes only will see racist matters.[/QUOTE] The racist connotation comes from the fact that they turned a conquered devil into a black person portrayed by a white guy in traditional blackface make up. I don't consider it racist the way it's used today but come on, you didn't expect people to make a big fuss about it at some point when blackface became recognized the world over as racist?

[QUOTE=Atlascore;42620779]Wow you guys are extremely racist, the fact that you have no problem with something called "Niggers* Kisses" or the ridiculous amount of characters portrayed in black face is absurd. *Which is a racial slur, crying about it being a part of your racist cultural traditions won't change that.[/QUOTE] nisse vill ha neger kyssar

Wow man people in this thread are really going full retard up on tpain. What is this with the shitty personal attacks? You'd think a mod would do something about it. [QUOTE=breakyourfac;42617290]That explains [I]a lot[/I][/QUOTE] Inconsiderate. [QUOTE=breakyourfac;42617329]Well first off, look at your post count. Secondly, you are always arguing tooth and nail with somebody in some thread somewhere. 'Oh look a 9 page thread in sh let's see what its about' and its filled up with posts with you bickering back and forth with somebody nitpicking their sentences apart.[/QUOTE] This is a forum, we are always having a discussion or a debate. [QUOTE=Limed00d;42617333]thisispain do you have someone to clean our armor when you're off-duty because you're white knighting everything, every time and that might get some spots on it[/QUOTE] You got to have people like that because look at all the stupid in this thread. He thinks something is worth defending or to argue for, he have a right to do so. Like you only gotta stick to one or two social issues, if not you get bitched out on because you stir too much thought into people. fuck 'em.

[QUOTE=Cone;42620427][URL="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/literally?q=literally"]it now has the added definition of being used for things that aren't literally literal, but use the word "literally" as hyperbole or for added emphasis.[/URL] so now it's perfectly fine to say that someone is literally super racist, because it still fits under its newest definition.[/QUOTE] What, that's the exact opposite of 'literal'. What the fuck were they thinking.

[QUOTE=V12US;42620898]What, that's the exact opposite of 'literal'. What the fuck were they thinking.[/QUOTE] they were literally acting retarded

Everyone is so afraid of change in this country, just give them different colors of make up, the kids eat that shit up, the whole world has become a multicultural mix, and we need to go with the time instead of having these old traditions that could insult some people. Stop holding on to the past.

[QUOTE=Nestophales;42617015]It would be one thing to just paint their face black, whatever, soot from the chimney. But big red lips and black curly hair ontop of that? Pretty racist.[/QUOTE] Because the gene corresponding for curly hair is bound to only one race, right?

[QUOTE=Atlascore;42620779]Wow you guys are extremely racist, the fact that you have no problem with something called "Niggers* Kisses" or the ridiculous amount of characters portrayed in black face is absurd. *Which is a racial slur, crying about it being a part of your racist cultural traditions won't change that.[/QUOTE] Which is a racial slur in your culture alright. The "negro's (nigger's) kiss" is a common name for various treats, in Russia it's a name for common homemade cakes recipe. The word "negro/nigger", "негр" bears no negative connotations, unlike the word "черный", "black" which is a racial slur targeting everyone who isn't "white". Adressing people purely by color of their skin, "white", "black", "yellow", "brown" etc. is considered highly offensive in my country, unlike yours. In other countries it is diffirent. You really shouldn't be running around applying your culture's connotations and context to everyone around the world.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;42621206]Negro isn't a racial slur though, it literally just means black in many languages. Nigger on the other hand has almost exclusively appeared as a racial slur and is used as an insult in multiple countries. Also addressing people purely by their skin color is offensive here too I don't know what the fuck you're smoking.[/QUOTE] Describing people by what they look like isn't offensive. I've never heard of anyone being offended because he's described as coloured, white or black.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;42621206]Negro isn't a racial slur though, it literally just means black in many languages. Nigger on the other hand has almost exclusively appeared as a racial slur and is used as an insult in multiple countries. Also addressing people purely by their skin color is offensive here too I don't know what the fuck you're smoking.[/QUOTE] We don't have a word "nigger" at all, only as a transliteration from English to try and convey a small margin of loaded connotation which is absent in our language. You pretty much only hear this word in movies or see it in books. "Nigger" and "negro" are entirely the same otherwise. The point is, it's all translation, I'm pretty sure Sweden and other countries have no specific word "nigger" in "Nigger's kiss". And no, grouping people by color of their skin is OK in USA, otherwise I wouldn't see "black people", "brown people" and everything else around as much as I do. I might have used the word "addressing" wrongly, the point is - the word "black" applied to human being is a racial slur in my country. Unlike yours.

[QUOTE=CasualJoe;42620976]Everyone is so afraid of change in this country, just give them different colors of make up, the kids eat that shit up, the whole world has become a multicultural mix, and we need to go with the time instead of having these old traditions that could insult some people. Stop holding on to the past.[/QUOTE] According to Teddybeer's post, there has been an attempt to do that, but it failed apparently.