Townhall protests against "Obamacare" turned into battle zones - Polidicks

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;16554719]Yes because she loves spreading around bullshit rumors with no proof or logic at all, just like Hannity. [/QUOTE] That's exactly my point. Both groups have their logic so twisted and corrupted you can barely see the true good in both sides(and trust me both Liberals and Conservatives have good ideas).

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16554782]And that is why you are a gold member - you speak sense in a land of senselessness.[/QUOTE] i wouldn't be telling other people that they are senseless if I were you

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16554635] They basically tell their little mob to avoid getting into an intelligent debate, and instead scream, yell, and disrupt things to PREVENT intelligent debate. [/QUOTE] That's pretty much the point of protests like these. You can't really have an intelligent debate at a protest, it's simply meant to get the moderates who don't show up thinking about their core message.

Obamacare will destroy America. Slippery slope, people. Tomorrow we'll have telescreens and microphones in our houses.

[QUOTE=thisispain;16554824]i wouldn't be telling other people that they are senseless if I were you[/QUOTE] You do it anyways thisispain. :keke:

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;16554493]I know this is kind of stupid, but this says it all: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl91YF1d3Kg[/media] I don't care if she is a dyke she's right and she has proof. [editline]11:46PM[/editline] Hope you realize healthcare is the biggest part of our deficit, genius.[/QUOTE] MSNBC is as leftist as FOX news is right wing. So I wouldn't really use that as a source. No shit one political party will favor the healthcare plan over another. I don't know too much about the situation and topic, but I personally think it would just be best to do some reform where more people are covered, yet retaining what some people call the "business" approach so we can have well trained doctors/infastructure that lets our hospitals cover the bigger things that countries with socialized healthcare can often not.

[QUOTE=ORGLAR;16554859]Obamacare will destroy America. Slippery slope, people. Tomorrow we'll have telescreens and microphones in our houses.[/QUOTE] Why? So they can hear me fap to asian porn? [editline]05:14AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Sporkfire;16554872]MSNBC is as leftist as FOX news is right wing. So I wouldn't really use that as a source. No shit one political party will favor the healthcare plan over another. I don't know too much about the situation and topic, but I personally think it would just be best to do some reform where more people are covered, yet retaining what some people call the "business" approach so we can have well trained doctors/infastructure that lets our hospitals cover the bigger things that countries with socialized healthcare can often not.[/QUOTE] My problem is that medicine [b]should not[/b] be a business. People shouldn't be denied healthcare because their job doesn't have an HMO or they can't afford insurance.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;16554846]That's pretty much the point of protests like these. You can't really have an intelligent debate at a protest, it's simply meant to get the moderates who don't show up thinking about their core message.[/QUOTE] Except that their core message is based on blatant lies and fallacies. There's no single-payer system in the bill. There are no death panels to decide who gets to live and die. There is no provision to destroy private health insurance. It's all bullshit fear tactics used by manipulative people who know from past experience that getting people scared and angry works better than trying to intelligently debate. [QUOTE=ORGLAR;16554859]Obamacare will destroy America. Slippery slope, people. Tomorrow we'll have telescreens and microphones in our houses.[/QUOTE] The slippery slope argument is an assumption-based fallacy that doesn't work in any situation.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;16554861]You do it anyways thisispain. :keke:[/QUOTE] no not really all my posts are devoid of Obama will rape our american babies not to mention i'm also not a homosexual homophobe

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16554903]Except that their core message is based on blatant lies and fallacies. There's no single-payer system in the bill. There are no death panels to decide who gets to live and die. There is no provision to destroy private health insurance. It's all bullshit fear tactics used by manipulative people who know from past experience that getting people scared and angry works better than trying to intelligently debate. [/QUOTE] Obama has said he wants a single player system eventually. I can see where these people are coming from. Most of them are just people who are scared that the government is trying to infringe to much in the private sector, which I agree with mostly. [editline]05:19AM[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;16554924]no not really all my posts are devoid of Obama will rape our american babies not to mention i'm also not a homosexual homophobe[/QUOTE] That has nothing to do with calling someone else senseless...

[QUOTE=FPSDars;16552910]I'm a bit lost here. Someone care to throw Obama's plan in a nutshell so I can understand what all this fucking fuss is about?[/QUOTE] The plan (as I can best gather since I'm not reading a 1200 page bill) is to reform the healthcare and insurance system by regulating the fuck out of it. The pros are that it should provide the average person with health insurance and healthcare for free while at the same time banning a lot of the shady practices the insurance companies and hospitals pull on a daily basis. The cons are that noting is free since this will have to be paid for by hiking taxes and government regulation isn't always a good thing. Just because it is the government doing it that doesn't mean they will do it right. Also people on both sides tend point at the Canadian system. The liberals claim it is wonderful since it is free for the recipient, the conservatives claim it sucks because it raises the taxes and people can be on waiting lists for years to get a transplant they need within hours (in more extreme cases, of course).

[QUOTE=yawmwen;16554959]Obama has said he wants a single player system eventually. [/QUOTE] ...So? That's not what this bill is about, there's no reason for people to be using it as a justification for this shit if there isn't even a hint of it in the bill. If there was, the guy who introduced it would have been run out of Congress.

The heartless, angry 'mob': [img]http://www.moonbattery.com/iamthemob_1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.moonbattery.com/iamthemob_2.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.moonbattery.com/iamthemob_3.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.moonbattery.com/iamthemob_4.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.moonbattery.com/iamthemob_5.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16555028]...So? That's not what this bill is about, there's no reason for people to be using it as a justification for this shit if there isn't even a hint of it in the bill. If there was, the guy who introduced it would have been run out of Congress.[/QUOTE] Yea but he said this is a first step, he's doing it in increments, not all at once.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16555028]...So? That's not what this bill is about, there's no reason for people to be using it as a justification for this shit if there isn't even a hint of it in the bill. If there was, the guy who introduced it would have been run out of Congress.[/QUOTE] Every victory on an issue is a step for the winning side.

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16555057]The heartless, angry 'mob': [/QUOTE] Thanks, that's pretty much what it is, even if it is paid for by Republicans, that doesn't mean the average protester and shit is just an ignorant fool. These are normal people who are scared.

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16555057]The heartless, angry 'mob': *pics*[/QUOTE] And they are all, 100%, middle-aged or older white people scared shitless because someone with a microphone told them Obama/Hitler is going to order them euthanized. I pity them, really, they're just being manipulated.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;16554490]No it doesn't. Canada has better general healthcare, like if you need to go to the doctor for strep throat or something small, but for stuff that requires specialists and expensive equipment(cancer treatment, for example) they suck. thousands of Canadians come into the US for treatment because Canadian Healthcare can't cover the big stuff. [/QUOTE] Other way around, pal. Our healthcare system is triaged. If you have a broken limb or anything less, you'll be waiting a while. If you're dying, you'll get treated pretty fast. And thousands of Canadians go to the US for [i]elective[/i] procedures. (I think the only area we really struggle with wait times is knee and hip replacement/surgery)

Me thinks this is fox (and CNN to some extent) blowing stuff out of proportion to cause some sort of moral outrage. Gotta love sensationalist news stations full of well paid, opinionated reporters :3: Everybody is going to throw a huge shit fit for the next few years while this is implemented; and when it is finally implemented, things will be better and cheaper than they are now, at which point the bitchers will either STFU about it in humiliation, or they'll continue to blindly argue, bringing up tired, worn out [B][I]false[/I][/B] arguments like they have been doing for the last billion years. That's American conservatism for you, I'm sure they brought up similar bullshit when everybody else in the world wanted them to switch to the metric system.

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16555067]Every victory on an issue is a step for the winning side.[/QUOTE] You don't argue about step 5 when step 1 is the issue being currently debated, you're working on the assumption that steps 2-4 are automatically going to happen. Everything has to be discussed and put to a vote, if you want to bitch about single-payer systems, wait till that's actually the issue being brought forth, instead of trying to say it's an unavoidable result of something completely different that IS being discussed.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16555113]And they are all, 100%, middle-aged or older white people scared shitless because someone with a microphone told them Obama/Hitler is going to order them euthanized. I pity them, really, they're just being manipulated.[/QUOTE] Yes, none of them are there because they truely see what's going on. None of us backwudes cunservutiv ree-pub-lickens no whats gud for us hyuck hyuck [editline]01:40AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16555168]You don't argue about step 5 when step 1 is the issue being currently debated, you're working on the assumption that steps 2-4 are automatically going to happen. Everything has to be discussed and put to a vote, if you want to bitch about single-payer systems, wait till that's actually the issue being brought forth, instead of trying to say it's an unavoidable result of something completely different that IS being discussed.[/QUOTE] Except this would be a tremendous leap , not a singular step. Anyone who has healthcare would be the last to have it, and once they've changed their job, BOOM, they've lost it. Those with private insurance will be a rarity within 2 decades if this passes. What's the only option then? SINGLE PAYER America is supposed to be the land of 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his ability.', not 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.'. We are a [I]Capitalistic[/I] society, we were built around the concept of getting what you desire if you work towards it enough in a legal fashion.

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16555237]Yes, none of them are there because they truely see what's going on. None of us backwudes cunservutiv ree-pub-lickens no whats gud for us hyuck hyuck[/QUOTE] Well, if they were smart (or watched something other than O'Reilly and Beck) they would have figured out they were being lied to. It's really that simple. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to open the Wikipedia pages of the groups running these little protests, looking up the people that run them, and looking at their backgrounds and where the money's coming from. If they did, they'd know that the people telling them to go scream and yell like assholes (and eventually pull out guns and shoot people) are backed by the same insurance company that just jacked up their premiums, or cut them loose for getting sick and filing a claim.

The only negative to a public option I can fathom (besides insurance companies losing money! Oh no!) is for businesses, who already pay for health insurance for their workers. So then having to pay higher taxes for other people who aren't using their provided plan, they basically pay more than before. That's it. Anyone else want to argue any more negatives to a public option?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;16555130]Other way around, pal. Our healthcare system is triaged. If you have a broken limb or anything less, you'll be waiting a while. If you're dying, you'll get treated pretty fast. [/QUOTE] That's a load of horse crap. Seems like everybody that has to say anything negative about the Canadian healthcare system, are the ones who havn't had experience with it. The last two times I was with people with broken limbs, they got treated immediately. I'd assume if you had 5 dying people, and 5 people with broken limbs, and only 5 doctors, then your fantasy example would come true, but that rarely (if ever) happens.

Canadians are also generally some of the most satisfied with their health system in the world.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;16555299]Well, if they were smart (or watched something other than O'Reilly and Beck) they would have figured out they were being lied to. It's really that simple. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to open the Wikipedia pages of the groups running these little protests, looking up the people that run them, and looking at their backgrounds and where the money's coming from. If they did, they'd know that the people telling them to go scream and yell like assholes (and eventually pull out guns and shoot people) are backed by the same insurance company that just jacked up their premiums, or cut them loose for getting sick and filing a claim.[/QUOTE] yup, us cun-ser-vu-tivs ar gun be bringin guns to shoot them thar polee-tishuns that want to soe-shuh-lahz ar healthcare hyuck hyuck But seriously, shooting? What makes you think that? We're conservatives, so our first impulse is to shoot those that we disagree with? I don't know if I can use words sufficiently to describe my disappointment in this. Instead, have this image. [img]http://www.gwendy.net/imgs/my/wtf_is_this.jpg[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Image macro." - ventilated))[/highlight] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Reduce reduced!" - ventilated))[/highlight]

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16555385]yup, us cun-ser-vu-tivs ar gun be bringin guns to shoot them thar polee-tishuns that want to soe-shuh-lahz ar healthcare hyuck hyuck But seriously, shooting? What makes you think that? We're conservatives, so our first impulse is to shoot those that we disagree with? I don't know if I can use words sufficiently to describe my disappointment in this. Instead, have this image. [img]http://www.gwendy.net/imgs/my/wtf_is_this.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] We wouldnt have these assumptions if Fox News didn't give that vibe.

[QUOTE=Nyaos;16555412]We wouldnt have these assumptions if Fox News didn't give that vibe.[/QUOTE] Since when does Fox News encourage us to shoot politicians?

[QUOTE={FP}ST;16555385] But seriously, shooting? What makes you think that? We're conservatives, so our first impulse is to shoot those that we disagree with? [/QUOTE] Well, that's generally how it works, EG: Cold War. Also, it's easy to resort to gun violence when your arguments are shoddy.

Judging by the hate speech coming out of Fox & Co, violence is exactly what they're trying to provoke. Obama = Hitler, Hitler deserved to die, therefore Obama deserves to die. That's exactly what they're hoping for, that their rhetoric will get someone so angry that he'll take a shot at the man and solve all their problems. Their blatant encouragement of this "angry/scared mob" mentality is going to lead to very bad things.