Google boss "very proud of our tax avoidance scheme"
234 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38818724]Flat taxes are regressive in nature, and widen the already enormous wealth gap. Which is why most 1st World countries avoid it. Before you say "argument ad populum", this belief is not based on a bandwagon notion, but more that empirical studies and data do not support flat taxes. All the flat tax advocates are arguing something that only works on paper, never in practice. Because various tax policies from most 1st world countries are based on facts, naturally most don't do flat taxes, so you can never accuse me of "argument ad populum" or bandwagoning because that'd be like saying I'm bandwagoning for saying the Earth revolves around the Sun and 1+1=2.[/QUOTE]
Well my reasoning is that if there were a number of entities exploiting loopholes to pay significantly less taxes - coincidentally what this article is about - then removal of said loopholes would create an end result of them paying more money, yes? And, ideally, the blow would be softened by the fact that said entities would not have to pay money to bean counters and tax law experts to find said loopholes, so they would have less perceived expenses.
Not that I doubt you, but can you provide me with more information on these studies? I find this all very interesting, but sadly am not exposed to very comprehensive discussions on a daily basis.
[QUOTE=garry;38817881]Seems like a recession is a perfect time for a business to reduce the amount of tax it pays?[/QUOTE]
businesses like Google and Amazon barely paid any taxes to begin with.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;38818791]Well my reasoning is that if there were a number of entities exploiting loopholes to pay significantly less taxes - coincidentally what this article is about - then removal of said loopholes would create an end result of them paying more money, yes? And, ideally, the blow would be softened by the fact that said entities would not have to pay money to bean counters and tax law experts to find said loopholes, so they would have less perceived expenses.
Not that I doubt you, but can you provide me with more information on these studies? I find this all very interesting, but sadly am not exposed to very comprehensive discussions on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]
The poor and simply not wealthy have to use a much larger portion of their income on survival.
Say that a poor person is making 20 thousand dollars a year. That's not complete poverty, but it's a shitty wage. Assume that they are spending 15 grand a year on things like food, transportation and medical expenses, which is really low. No entertainment costs. Everything on a minimal budget. 25% tax leaves them with nothing extra.
Say that a moderately wealthy person is making 200k a year. Not even 7 figures. He also pays 25% tax. That leaves him with 150 thousand dollars a year. Lets just say that he spends 5 times as much on much higher quality food, better medical care, a better, safer car, and countless other things to improve his life, and life expectancy. Even paying 5 times what the other person does on the 'necessities' he still has enormous amounts of leeway.
Flat tax fails because it hurts the poor and causes them severe duress financially if the tax is high enough to generate revenue where as it doesn't hurt the rich at all. If the tax rate is low enough the poor can handle it then its not going to bring in money.
A flat 15% tax rate for instance would take 15% of 40,000, severely hurting that low income group in the process. 15% of a million is a lot, but it doesn't affect the day to day living of the person where as 15% of 40,000 does massively.
This is why flat tax is a fucking horrible decision
[QUOTE=Ardosos;38818582]Can you offer a single legitimate argument against the flat tax model? Because I have yet to hear one.[/QUOTE]
Here you go: A flat tax would benefit the rich and the wealthy corporations because they'd presumably be paying as much as the poorest people in the country. The rich should be paying more because they can afford to pay more. There would also be no tax deductions for medical expenses.
I like it how it is now - it's great that the more I work, the more I earn, the more I pay in tax - and if I don't bother getting a job they actually pay me. That's the perfect system!
I mean if I've lived the dream and come up with something great - and I'm making a lot of money from it - it makes perfect sense that I should only get to keep half of that money.
[editline]13th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38818962]Here you go: A flat tax would benefit the rich and the wealthy corporations because they'd presumably be paying as much as the poorest people in the country. The rich should be paying more because they can afford to pay more. There would also be no tax deductions for medical expenses.[/QUOTE]
What would the rich do with their money? Hire more people? Expand their business? Burn it all in a big pit?
[QUOTE=garry;38817624]I don't get why this makes people angry. Why would you pay more tax than you need to? If the govt don't like it then they should change the tax law so they have no other choice.
No-one is voluntarily going to pay more tax than they have to. It's an accountant's main job to minimize the amount of tax that you pay.
If your morals should dictate the amount of tax you pay then why not get rid of the whole tax law all together and let people pay what they morally think they should?[/QUOTE]
I'm probably going to get demodded for this, but you aren't one to talk considering you utilize every tax loophole imaginable to horde in cash. [URL="http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06848626#financials"]I've seen the details [/URL]
[editline] d [/editline]
There's something else you guys should know about garry's wealth: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3dKXg.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=garry;38817881]Seems like a recession is a perfect time for a business to reduce the amount of tax it pays?[/QUOTE]
Yes - [I]small[/I] business.
[QUOTE=garry;38818977]I like it how it is now - it's great that the more I work, the more I earn, the more I pay in tax - and if I don't bother getting a job they actually pay me. That's the perfect system!
I mean if I've lived the dream and come up with something great - and I'm making a lot of money from it - it makes perfect sense that I should only get to keep half of that money.
[/QUOTE]
That's not how it works. And it sucks living on food stamps, living on government assistance is barely making it. It's a shitty existence.
[QUOTE=garry;38818977]I like it how it is now - it's great that the more I work, the more I earn, the more I pay in tax - and if I don't bother getting a job they actually pay me. That's the perfect system!
I mean if I've lived the dream and come up with something great - and I'm making a lot of money from it - it makes perfect sense that I should only get to keep half of that money.[/QUOTE]
. Welfare is supposed to be for people who are looking for a job but don't have one yet. Of course there are lazy fucks who abuse the system, you know what? they do nothing all day and they live in poor housing when they could at least try to earn something better. Maybe England's tax rate against the highest income bracket is higher than the US's, but half of a lot of money is still a lot of money, which is why you're taxed so and not the people living on 20K a year
[QUOTE=Swilly;38819043]That's not how it works. And it sucks living on food stamps, living on government assistance is barely making it. It's a shitty existence.[/QUOTE]
It should be a fucking shitty existence
But it's better than nothing, that's how it works. It's a chance to keep living and to make something of yourself, or at least try to.
[QUOTE=garry;38818977]I like it how it is now - it's great that the more I work, the more I earn, the more I pay in tax - and if I don't bother getting a job they actually pay me. That's the perfect system!
I mean if I've lived the dream and come up with something great - and I'm making a lot of money from it - it makes perfect sense that I should only get to keep half of that money.
[editline]13th December 2012[/editline]
What would the rich do with their money? Hire more people? Expand their business? Burn it all in a big pit?[/QUOTE]
Trickle down economics is bullshit. Hoover proved it, a Congressional committee proved it, hundreds of economists proved it. I get it, you like your money, maybe if I was as wealthy as you I'd be doing the same, but we live in this country, we gotta pay the rent.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38819077]. Welfare is supposed to be for people who are looking for a job but don't have one yet. Of course there are lazy fucks who abuse the system, you know what? they do nothing all day and they live in poor housing when they could at least try to earn something better. Maybe England's tax rate against the highest income bracket is higher than the US's, but half of a lot of money is still a lot of money, which is why you're taxed so and not the people living on 20K a year[/QUOTE]
That's kind of the point.. why would you stay in this country and pay 50% tax when you could move your business to another country and pay 10% tax?
[QUOTE=garry;38819083]It should be a fucking shitty existence[/QUOTE]
I bet you would've never said that before you made GMod.
[QUOTE=garry;38819112]That's kind of the point.. why would you stay in this country and pay 50% tax when you could move your business to another country and pay 10% tax?[/QUOTE]
because if the various legislative branches of our nations ever get their shit in gear (and the tea party is finally fucking destroyed to the last) the tax rate for offshore investments will be 50%
[QUOTE=garry;38819112]That's kind of the point.. why would you stay in this country and pay 50% tax when you could move your business to another country and pay 10% tax?[/QUOTE]
well the idea is that you are who you are because of the country you live in, it's a "thank you" to the system that got you where you are, and it's the way more people like you will be "created." Obviously, it is working.
[editline]13th December 2012[/editline]
putting money back into the economy that created you, the people that support your existance
[QUOTE=Stopper;38819116]I bet you would've never said that before you made GMod.[/QUOTE]
It's age and having a job that makes you realise that - not making a video game.
I know tons of people who sit at home and do nothing all day but apply for govt schemes and grants. And they're much much better off than the people that get up at 4AM every morning to work a shitty factory job to feed their family.
Those people are the reason this country is in the shitter - not Google.
[QUOTE=garry;38819083]It should be a fucking shitty existence[/QUOTE]
And it is a shitty existence. You made it sound like people were being lazy and swimming that welfare money.
[editline]13th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=garry;38819172]It's age and having a job that makes you realise that - not making a video game.
I know tons of people who sit at home and do nothing all day but apply for [B]govt schemes and grants[/B]. And they're much much better off than the people that get up at 4AM every morning to work a shitty factory job to feed their family.
Those people are the reason this country is in the shitter - not Google.[/QUOTE]
That is google.
Maybe they would leave their house if there wasn't so much gmod to play?
[QUOTE=garry;38819172]It's age and having a job that makes you realise that - not making a video game.
I know tons of people who sit at home and do nothing all day but apply for govt schemes and grants. And they're much much better off than the people that get up at 4AM every morning to work a shitty factory job to feed their family.
Those people are the reason this country is in the shitter - not Google.[/QUOTE]
im sincerely hoping this is an elaborate joke
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38819144]well the idea is that you are who you are because of the country you live in, it's a "thank you" to the system that got you where you are, and it's the way more people like you will be "created." Obviously, it is working.
[editline]13th December 2012[/editline]
putting money back into the economy that created you, the people that support your existance[/QUOTE]
I am of the opinion that the country be better off encouraging you to create jobs and hire its citizens than strangling you with taxes so you can't afford to do jack shit.
I'm not saying I feel strangled. Facepunch made £990k last year - and we paid £160k tax on that. I was happy to pay that - it doesn't seem excessive. But bare in mind that this is before I have personally even seen a penny of it. When I get paid that money gets taxed again.
[QUOTE=garry;38819223]I am of the opinion that the country be better off encouraging you to create jobs and hire its citizens than strangling you with taxes so you can't afford to do jack shit.
I'm not saying I feel strangled. Facepunch made £990k last year - and we paid £160k tax on that. I was happy to pay that - it doesn't seem excessive. But bare in mind that this is before I have personally even seen a penny of it. When I get paid that money gets taxed again.[/QUOTE]
Like it should be?
[QUOTE=garry;38819223]I am of the opinion that the country be better off encouraging you to create jobs and hire its citizens than strangling you with taxes so you can't afford to do jack shit.
I'm not saying I feel strangled. Facepunch made £990k last year - and we paid £160k tax on that. I was happy to pay that - it doesn't seem excessive. But bare in mind that this is before I have personally even seen a penny of it. When I get paid that money gets taxed again.[/QUOTE]
So why not pull a google and leave it in Bermuda?
[QUOTE=garry;38819172]It's age and having a job that makes you realise that - not making a video game.
I know tons of people who sit at home and do nothing all day but apply for govt schemes and grants. And they're much much better off than the people that get up at 4AM every morning to work a shitty factory job to feed their family.
Those people are the reason this country is in the shitter - not Google.[/QUOTE]
Let me rephrase that. I bet you would've never said that before you became a millionaire.
And I know that anecdotes aren't very strong arguments.
So maybe we should stop welfare checks and stop taxing big corporations. Same result, eh?
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38819144]well the idea is that you are who you are because of the country you live in, it's a "thank you" to the system that got you where you are, and it's the way more people like you will be "created." Obviously, it is working.
[editline]13th December 2012[/editline]
putting money back into the economy that created you, the people that support your existance[/QUOTE]
We really don't want more garrys, one is enough.
[QUOTE=Swilly;38819180]And it is a shitty existence. You made it sound like people were being lazy and swimming that welfare money.
[/QUOTE]
Trust me, in the UK it isn't a shitty existence. I know a family here that has a rent free 3 bedroom house (they're applying for a 4 bedroom) and a free 8 seater car. They get free money every week to pay all their bills. No-one in the house works. It's really not a shitty existence for them.
They would be better off emotionally and socially if they got jobs - but nothing is pushing them to do that. They are floating in a nice benefits bubble.
[QUOTE=Kingy_ME;38819249]We really don't want more garrys, one is enough.[/QUOTE]
But there's already 2???!1!!???
[IMG]http://images.contactmusic.com/newsimages/gary_numan_1136396.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38819276]But there's already 2???!1!!???
[IMG]http://images.contactmusic.com/newsimages/gary_numan_1136396.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
There may be many Garrys, but only one garry.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;38817629]Don't hate the player hate the game
[/QUOTE]
corporations set the rules of the game so this statement is ultimately meaningless
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