• Google boss "very proud of our tax avoidance scheme"
    234 replies, posted
[QUOTE=garry;38819266]Trust me, in the UK it isn't a shitty existence. I know a family here that has a rent free 3 bedroom house (they're applying for a 4 bedroom) and a free 8 seater car. They get free money every week to pay all their bills. No-one in the house works. It's really not a shitty existence for them. They would be better off emotionally and socially if they got jobs - but nothing is pushing them to do that. They are floating in a nice benefits bubble.[/QUOTE] England is further to being a welfare state than America. [QUOTE=garry;38819223]I am of the opinion that the country be better off encouraging you to create jobs and hire its citizens than strangling you with taxes so you can't afford to do jack shit. I'm not saying I feel strangled. Facepunch made £990k last year - and we paid £160k tax on that. I was happy to pay that - it doesn't seem excessive. But bare in mind that this is before I have personally even seen a penny of it. When I get paid that money gets taxed again.[/QUOTE] Yeah, like Mitt Romney and the Koch brothers with their untold billions can't afford jack shit. You get taxed on 830k of income? I fucking wish my parents together made half of that amount in taxable income. there's still plenty of money left over.
Welfare confirmed for next Gmod Update.
[QUOTE=Stopper;38819244]Let me rephrase that. I bet you would've never said that before you became a millionaire. And I know that anecdotes aren't very strong arguments. So maybe we should stop welfare checks and stop taxing big corporations. Same result, eh?[/QUOTE] My attitude has nothing to do with having lots of money, about working for your money. Almost everyone with a job who pays tax feels the same. I'm sure it's a miserable experience in the US and people can't wait to get a job - but it's a HUGE problem in the UK. [B]People debate whether to get a job or not because they will actually end up with LESS money[/B].
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;38818915]Flat tax fails because it hurts the poor and causes them severe duress financially if the tax is high enough to generate revenue where as it doesn't hurt the rich at all. If the tax rate is low enough the poor can handle it then its not going to bring in money. A flat 15% tax rate for instance would take 15% of 40,000, severely hurting that low income group in the process. 15% of a million is a lot, but it doesn't affect the day to day living of the person where as 15% of 40,000 does massively. This is why flat tax is a fucking horrible decision[/QUOTE] Toss in a rebate of some kind for people under the poverty line. BAM, FIXED. Perfect tax system!
[QUOTE=garry;38819266]Trust me, in the UK it isn't a shitty existence. I know a family here that has a rent free 3 bedroom house (they're applying for a 4 bedroom) and a free 8 seater car. They get free money every week to pay all their bills. No-one in the house works. It's really not a shitty existence for them. They would be better off emotionally and socially if they got jobs - but nothing is pushing them to do that. They are floating in a nice benefits bubble.[/QUOTE] I think children should never grow up in any form of poverty on purely economical reasons. Children growing up in well off homes tend to be much smarter than those who's parents don't have enough resources to develop them and give them interesting life experiences. If you have parents who can't find a job then this shitty existence is passed on to their kids. You hear a lot of stories about people rose from the slums to become successful and highly productive people, but that is very rare. The problem with any system that tries to give parents the opportunity to raise their kids to be smart and able to improve themselves is that it can be easily manipulated and abused. In order for this system to work it needs to be accompanied with a set of rewards and punishments for parents to try and raise their kids well, and I'm no politician, economist child expert so I have no idea how to develop this system.
[QUOTE=garry;38819353]My attitude has nothing to do with having lots of money, about working for your money. Almost everyone with a job who pays tax feels the same. I'm sure it's a miserable experience in the US and people can't wait to get a job - but it's a HUGE problem in the UK. [B]People debate whether to get a job or not because they will actually end up with LESS money[/B].[/QUOTE] daily mail compatibility confirmed for next gmod update
[QUOTE=Bobie;38819505]daily mail compatibility confirmed for next gmod update[/QUOTE] Garry's statement is actually correct, and one of the numerous problems with the UK's economy.
[QUOTE=garry;38819266]Trust me, in the UK it isn't a shitty existence. I know a family here that has a rent free 3 bedroom house (they're applying for a 4 bedroom) and a free 8 seater car. They get free money every week to pay all their bills. No-one in the house works. It's really not a shitty existence for them. They would be better off emotionally and socially if they got jobs - but nothing is pushing them to do that. They are floating in a nice benefits bubble.[/QUOTE] First if all, the only way they could get a free car is with mobility which requires being on high rate DLA (disability living allowance). secondly, it isn't a "free car" it's more "renting a car" and usually not for free, most cars on mobility cost money upfront. Since they have to be on DLA to get a car someone in that family must be severely disabled. Forcing them to get a job would require either the main carer of the disabled person to get a job leaving no one to look after said disabled person, or force company's to hire severally disabled people who couldn't possibly do much for said company. If you honestly hate the idea of being £200k worse off from your £1m+ a year income becasue you hate the idea of helping people much less fortunate. It might be time to either re-evaluate your ideals.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38819505]daily mail compatibility confirmed for next gmod update[/QUOTE] Honestly that is a big problem, I know people who really want to work, but when they factor in transport costs, then it isn't worth working. I live in a small town in west Wales, and there are very few jobs in the area though, most people who has a job here has to travel at least 10-20 miles (quite a long distance in the UK on shitty country roads) to get to work, so it's probably a local problem.
Well thought out welfare reform can actually be beneficial for the poor. It's not all black and white, liberal and conservative, "they're helpless victims" and "they're just lazy". If you want to learn more about it, I recommend [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Working-Poor-Invisible-America/dp/0375708219"]http://www.amazon.com/Working-Poor-Invisible-America/dp/0375708219[/URL]
[QUOTE=Kingy_ME;38819461]The problem with any system that tries to give parents the opportunity to raise their kids to be smart and able to improve themselves is that it can be easily manipulated and abused.[/QUOTE] See: The US, UK, and the majority of other education systems in the world. All based off of the Prussian model of education, which is about shit like this: "If you want to influence [the student] at all, you must do more than merely talk to him; you must fashion him, and fashion him in such a way that he simply cannot will otherwise than what you wish him to will."
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38819547]Garry's statement is actually correct, and one of the numerous problems with the UK's economy.[/QUOTE] tell that to the disabled who are dying because they've been deemed 'fit to work' by the benefits system. oh no wait let me ignore all of this shit and focus on one or two anecdotes garry pulled out of his ass, while [i]injecting a liquidised version of the sun directly into my skull[/i]
[QUOTE=tdnoob;38819549]If you honestly hate the idea of being £200k worse off from your £1m+ a year income becasue you hate the idea of helping people much less fortunate. It might be time to either re-evaluate your ideals.[/QUOTE] Nice strawman. "If you don't want to pay taxes, you hate the poor!"
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38819614]Nice strawman. "If you don't want to pay taxes, you hate the poor!"[/QUOTE] Ok, I'm sure disabled people can just get money from the money tree. Not as if they rely on welfare funded by taxes to survive, we could just let them starve, since who cares about people who can't contribute to society.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38819589]tell that to the disabled who are dying because they've been deemed 'fit to work' by the benefits system. oh no wait let me ignore all of this shit and focus on one or two anecdotes garry pulled out of his ass, while [i]injecting a liquidised version of the sun directly into my skull[/i][/QUOTE] then that's disability welfare you need to reform, not general fucking welfare.
[QUOTE=tdnoob;38819707]Ok, I'm sure disabled people can just get money from the money tree. Not as if they rely on welfare funded by taxes to survive, we could just let them starve, since who cares about people who can't contribute to society.[/QUOTE] tbh i once saw a black person on welfare smiling and enjoying life we should just abolish welfare
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38819737]then that's disability welfare you need to reform, not general fucking welfare.[/QUOTE] but benefits are [i]soooo eassyy to gettt!!!![/i]
[QUOTE=garry;38819172]I know tons of people who sit at home and do nothing all day but apply for govt schemes and grants. And they're much much better off than the people that get up at 4AM every morning to work a shitty factory job to feed their family. Those people are the reason this country is in the shitter - not Google.[/QUOTE] In 2010: -Benefits abuse cost your country 1.2 billion GBP -Intentional corporate money shuffling cost your country 3.4 billion GBP
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;38819853]In 2010: -Benefits avoidance cost your country 1.2 billion GBP -Intentional corporate money shuffling cost your country 3.4 billion GBP[/QUOTE] Benefit avoidance?
[QUOTE=Bobie;38819794]but benefits are [i]soooo eassyy to gettt!!!![/i][/QUOTE] You want to deliberately ignore what I'm saying, go ahead. General welfare for the employed in England is too high, meaning that families on it don't want to go back to work. If disabled people are being rejected then you need to reform disabilities services, which is completely fucking different.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38820070]General welfare for the employed in England is too high[/QUOTE] Based on what? How high is 'too high'?
[QUOTE=Megafan;38820092]Based on what? How high is 'too high'?[/QUOTE] when people are living on welfare because its cheaper than getting a job, as Gary pointed out already, its too high.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;38817728]Or bomb Bermuda.[/QUOTE] Yeah, bomb Bermuda! With our planes and bombs we got because of all that money we... ah fuck.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38820262]when people are living on welfare because its cheaper than getting a job, as Gary pointed out already, its too high.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17429325[/url] There's the reason why, the minimum wage of the UK is very low compared to the cost of living. The minimum wage isn't even rising at anywhere near the rate of inflation. [url]http://www.xpatulator.com/cost-of-living-article/Cost-of-Living-Europe-July-2012_353.cfm[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_minimum_wage[/url] the UK has one of the if not the highest cost of living, especially in the big cities where everyone lives and where all the jobs are.
you'd think, with these tax avoidance schemes being so well-documented, that [i]maybe[/i] by now the government would do something about them
google please stop doing alternately cool and evil things it makes it hard for me to form an opinion about you
[QUOTE=cccritical;38820762]you'd think, with these tax avoidance schemes being so well-documented, that [i]maybe[/i] by now the government would do something about them[/QUOTE] Why would they do that when a large amount of the MPs are also doing tax avoidance? It'd be shooting themselves in the foot just to look good.
[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;38820793]Why would they do that when a large amount of the MPs are also doing tax avoidance? It'd be shooting themselves in the foot just to look good.[/QUOTE] that's why I don't understand politicians I guess always talking about how we need to raise taxes and cut this and that when measures wouldn't need to be so drastic would they just pay the same as any regular citizen this feeds my hate of career politicians and the fact that 'career politician' is such a thing in the first place
[QUOTE=garry;38819353]My attitude has nothing to do with having lots of money, about working for your money. Almost everyone with a job who pays tax feels the same. I'm sure it's a miserable experience in the US and people can't wait to get a job - but it's a HUGE problem in the UK. [B]People debate whether to get a job or not because they will actually end up with LESS money[/B].[/QUOTE] It's not like the money from benefits goes to a blackhole and is never seen again. The people spend it, it goes back into the economy and eventually back to the government in tax, assuming companies do what they are supposed to and pay it.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;38821189]It's not like the money from benefits goes to a blackhole and is never seen again. The people spend it, it goes back into the economy and eventually back to the government in tax, assuming companies do what they are supposed to and pay it.[/QUOTE] But the jobs they could be doing would produce actual revenue net gain.
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